Bit early but trying to sort out Xmas (long, sorry)

[tallulah]

My brother has managed to spoil the last 2 Xmas Days, & after last year DH & I decided that we'd tackle my mum in the summer, so we could sort it out without that stress of approaching holidays. But, I've sat down to think about what to say, & it is still making me so angry that I'm sure I'm just going to make it worse.

Basically, we always spent Xmas with mums parents as children, & when we got married DH & I fell into the same pattern of going to my parents. My dad died 7 years ago, so now we feel obliged to spend Xmas at mums.

Xmas 2001 my brother & his wife (no kids) were due for dinner, then rang when it was almost ready to say they'd been delayed & would "stop for something on the way". Mum said not to do that & we had to wait for them. They turned up at 3pm- we were starving- & they had stopped. They were there for about an hour, then they left, leaving mum in a stinking mood which she took out on me!

Xmas 2002, mum rang about a week before (once all arrangements had been made) to say that brother was bringing 2 friends for dinner. She'd agreed to it, & it hadn't occured to her to ask if I minded (I did- these were total strangers).

Once again, they arrived late (though only 30 mins this time) & empty-handed- no wine, flowers etc- ate the food we'd spent all morning preparing (& the pudding & wine I'd bought), got up from the table & went & sat down in the lounge, leaving plates etc on the table. These visitors made no effort whatsoever to be friendly, despite mums best efforts at conversation, & it was horrible having complete strangers in the house.

My brother gave about a dozen very expensive gifts to his 15 yo daughter, who was staying with us (on her own- her mum & my bro sep when she was a baby), & 1 measly- price/thought-wise present to each of our kids.. the visitors had presents for my neice but NOTHING for my kids (would a bag of sweets each have been too much to ask?). Then they went home, leaving us with an hours worth of washing up!

They'd come to mums because they'd planned to go to their local pub but at £40 a head it was "too expensive"!!

Biggest gripe is that mum seems to treat us as if we are part of the furniture & there is an unspoken thing between us about how much it costs to feed 6 of us (hence the pudding etc), yet he gets treated like an honoured guest & gets the red carpet.

I know that if I say we aren't going this year she will be terribly upset and/or insist on visiting us.. & TBH I'd rather we were there than she was here! BUT, I'm not putting up with this again, & basically it's going to come down to, if he's coming we're not. Incidentally he shows no interest whatsoever in any of my children & can be downright nasty to them if they try to get involved with him. (Like DS2 has been sending him emails about computer stuff- his business- & he sent me an email asking me to stop DS emailing him!)

Any ideas on tactful confrontation? (I had a HUGE argument with my brother- by email- for several months after Xmas when I told him I wasn't happy he'd borrowed money off mum, & I don't wish to repeat it.. it got very nasty.)

Hi Tallulah, What a horrible situation for you and your family to be in. If I was you I would seriously reconsider where you spend your Xmas's in future. Why not spend it at dh's family for a change or if not at your own home.I know you say your Mum will be upset but I would rather upset my mum than watch my dh and especially my children have an unhappy and miserable day.Your children must feel the bad vibes and dread Xmas coming around as they must feel pushed out.Give them a happy time this year as this is what Xmas is supposed to be about.Hope it all works out for you.
We had a similar situation once, we went to dh's parents for Xmas when we were first together with my children.MIL and FIL made us feel very welcome but it was dh's nan who ruled the roost and made my ds1 life hell that day. All she did was pick at him for everything, it just wasn't fair. When we came home I told dh that I would never put my son in that position and he agreed. Even though she is deceased now we would rather spend Xmas at home as we have more fun as a family.Plus the after dinner sledge is a bonus in your own home!!!!

Yikes, what a nasty situation. I think all you can do is tell your Mum what the problem is. Why are you so against her coming to your house? She must know that you aren't really enjoying the day, it doesn't sound like she's having much fun too. Does she see much of your brother the rest of the year or is this one of the only times she sees him? The main thing is to sort it out now rather than putting it off - and Doormat is right, you and your family deserve to have a nice time on Christmas day.

AS emwi says, would it really be that bad if your mum came to yours for christmas? In that way you'd be avoiding seeing your brother AND avoiding a big confrontation about it.

If you extend the invitation and she refuses, at least you can say you've tried. But I understand that now she's on her own, you really want to see her on christmas day. If you tell your mother you want to have a family christmas at home this year and really want her to be with you too, your mum might put two and two together anyway and realise you are upset about your brother, but are trying to be tactful about it. She's going to have to make a choice between you and your brother sometime. Only you know how well that will go down with her.

If you've recently had a huge email argument with your brother and he's mean in both senses of the word to your children, it doesn't bode well for a christmas harmony. You've gone along with things for two years, but if you keep this arrangement going, it will become set in stone and much more difficult to get out of in years to come. IMO better to change things now to give you more flexibility later.

If your mum visiting you at home is a real no no, could you have christmas lunch at a restaurant and invite your mum along instead? Or visit her at her home after christmas lunch so there's not as much possibility of friction?

tallulah, it sounds horrible and I do sympathise. My stepfather ruined Christmas the year before last by basically making it very clear that it was a PITA having us around. So last year I didn't go and the 3 of us (dp, ds, me) had a truly lovely time at home. It was fantastic, great fun, very relaxed family day. I'm doing the same this year since I've fallen out with my sister several times this year and she and I will both have new babies and I just can't face the thought of confrontation/stress. Your brother sounds extremely selfish and how awful to have brought friends who behaved as they did. But I suppose your mum did let him get away with it. Why not just let it lie, invite your mum to yours (but only if you want her to come) and ignore your brother as far as possible. Send a card/presents if you would normally, don't get into any confrontations/discussions if possible and just tell (don't ask) everyone what your plans are whilst avoiding mudslinging if possible. Or could you ask your mum to come on Boxing day maybe if you don't want her there on xmas day? Also, if she gripes about the cost of feeding you she can hardly object if you offer to reciprocate this year can she? If she wants to see your brother she can invite him but this way you still get to avoid him. I hope you find a solution - sibling relationships can be hard can't they?

Hi Tallulah,
Poor you, your brother sounds incredibly selfish! I second most people's advice here, and have christmas on your own terms in your own house this year. You could either invite your mum for Christmas Day (my 1st choice - it would decrease the confrontation enormously and I think you may be surprised how different things are when you are in control of the venue/guest list/food etc!) or if you really can't bear the idea invite her for either dinner on Christmas Eve or lunch on Boxing Day. You could say that dh and children really want Christmas at home this year, that you don't want to upset her usual plans as you expect she will have your brother on Christmas Day as normal, but that you really hope she'll come and swap presents and have a meal on Christmas Eve/Boxing Day. Would that work?

At the end of the day you need to have a christmas that works for you and your kids - if it does end up in a confrontation you could just say that you are happy to have christmas at your mothers with or without your brother every other year, but the years in between you'd like to do things your own way. Nobody could really complain that that is unreasonable!
Good luck... and merry christmas!

Thanks all of you for your words of wisdom!

We find it difficult having mum here because we aren't used to visitors.. little things get annoying & get turned into arguments (I know it's silly, but things like her leaving the lounge door open in the morning when there's no-one in there- our cats go after our caged birds... ) & she will insist on "tidying" up etc which drives us round the bend. She lives 3.5 hours away, so its all or nothing for visiting. Also we are vegetarian & she always makes a big thing of "having" to have turkey at Xmas...

My brother lives about 30 mins away from her- again about 3.5 hours from us. He has never visited us in 19 years- we have been to every "new" house of his- and he's moved at least 1/2 a dozen times.The excuse is his wife is allergic to cats.. (doesn't stop her visiting friends on a farm though).

Added complication is that my grandma who is 90 & can no longer travel, lives near my mum.

I think I will find out what the "plans" are their end, then say we're in 2 minds about travelling & think we might stay at home this year- would she like to come- then at least the ball is in her court.

Thanks again to all of you.

If it were me I'd be tempted to rent a cottage at the other end of the country with only enough beds for you, dh and the kids. Or is that just a tad extreme?

Sorry but it is your Mum's house and she can invite who she likes to it - it does sounds as though your brother is pretty selfish but as he only lives 30 minutes away he possibly visits her throughout the year and she likes his company. To be honest it sounds to me as if you are not exactly flexible - to say that you don't want your Mum because you are not used to visitors sounds a bit extreme - everyone's Mum or Mother-in-Law gets on your nerves after a day or two in your house but that it life. Could you not just shut your birds in your bedroom so leaving the door open is not an issue and let her tidy up - saves you doing it!! Also, if your Mum wants turkey why can't she have turkey - I assume she makes you something veggie when you go to hers.

badjelly, TBH that was DHs solution... does seem a bit extreme!

beetroot, my brother only came last year because the restaurant he was planning to go to charges £40 per head on Xmas Day (which we thought was reasonable, considering), & he wasn't prepared to pay that! (esp when he can eat for free at mums). I can't afford £40 x 6, unfortunately, or I'd be tempted to do that.

jaybee, yes I'm aware it's her house. The point is that we always go to her- because she says she wants us to- but had she told me earlier these people were coming we would have stayed at home. It's horrible having unfriendly strangers foisted onto you at Xmas.

& no she doesn't make us something veggie. I have to provide and make it for the 6 of us PLUS my brothers DD. She is veggie as well so it is taken as read that I will feed her too. (& having provided it, it's very galling when she pushes it round the plate & won't eat it).

I don't want my own pans used for meat, when we don't eat it. I don't think that is unreasonable.

My brother visits my mum only when it suits him, despite being closer in distance. She likes his company but treats him like an honoured guest, while she treats me like part of the furniture. Hence the moan.

Tallulah - is it really so difficult to have an honest discussion with your mother? I know that might sound a bit blunt but, clearly, the situation is obviously causing you so much grief and upset that surely - for the sake of a slightly difficult half hour chat - the situation could be resolved? Otherwise you are just going to have the same situation year after year.

If I am in a difficult situation I try to think about how I would deal with it 'from the other side' - ie: when your children are grown up would you want them to feel 'obliged' to spend every Christmas with you - or would you rather everyone could be honest and open with each other? I dread the thought of my DS feeling 'obliged' to spend every christmas with us - and being older parents with an only child I realise this could well happen.

Also, you might find your mother doesn't really want you all to visit - after all six extra people is quite a lot - my parents 'came clean' a couple of years ago and said they would much prefer to visit at different times of the year, rather than at Christmas which can be so stressful for many reasons, in fact this suited us all really well.

Sorry if this comes across as harsh but I learned the hard way that, when dealing with relationships, honesty really is the best policy - obviously being as tactful and kind as possible.

Hope everything works out for you.

I think I would agree with the majority about initing your mum. I know it seems such a pain when she does really irritating things, but which is worse! As far as teh meat thing goes, you can buy (from M&S) small turkey joints that cook in their own dish, add a pot of gravy that you microwave and your pans don't need to be 'contaminated' (being veggie myself I know what you mean!). If she doesn't want to come, you've done all you can Good luck I know this can be so stressful.

Thanks Crunchie

Lindy, I did actually ask my mum before last Xmas if she really wanted us there- she said yes- it wouldn't be the same without us (oh dear..)

It is very very difficult to have a proper conversation with her. She takes offence however I try to approach her, then goes off in a huff & won't speak to me (honestly!). She has to be handled with kid gloves. While 1/2 of me doesn't want to upset her, the other 1/2 wants her to grow up.

Tallulah - I do understand your predicament, it must be really tough and I hope my message didn't come across too preachy.

I must say that I think your DH is a star to put up with this - I know mine wouldn't, (he put his foot down about family christmases some years ago!) does he have any family?

One thing you could say, which I have heard a lot of people say, is something along the lines that now the children are getting older its more & more difficult to travel etc etc which is why you are staying at home.

You could also add that it would be nice for the children to be near their friends at Xmas time, now they're getting older Hopefully then they'd all leave you alone. You could always do open house on Boxing Day if you feel like offering something up: but make sure your brother and SIL do the washing up!