Is it me, or him?

[Zooropa]

dh and I have had a few problems recently, I posted on here before but we are really trying to make a go of it now. Anyway there is a recurrent theme we keep arguing about, and I need some perspective.

Basically I feel dh subtly puts me down a lot, it is very subtle though, not nasty comments really just sometimes gently poking fun. I don't like this, especially because I can see similarities with his dad who does this, but much more blatantly and with worse things - eg his dad will comment on his mum's weight. DH wouldn't do that to me, it's more little things.
He usually just says he's joking, and that I am too sensitive. I am very sensitive but I jsut want to be in a relationship where we are nice to each other. He says he's a jokey person - we've been together 10 years and it's only been an issue since ds was born really, if he did it before it must have been balanced out with lots of nice comments!

Anyway, examples:

I have a tattoo which I got when I was 16 and am quite self conscious about as I don't like it now. DS was pointing at it this morning and saying "mummy picture, mummy fish" (it's a dolphin). DH said "no it's a tattoo,like big biker man". This upset me a bit as I do feel self conscious of it and as ds gets older I don't want him to tease me about it. Writing it down it seems so trivial!

Another thing - we both play tennis and at a recent competition I made a mistake and held my hands up looking a bit confused and someone asked why, dh said "oh it's just zooropa, she's always like that" in front of everyone.

Then another one was again at a tennis thing, this wasn't a joke though he got annoyed when I was playing tennis with him as he thought I was hitting the ball wrong (not trying - I was!) and just alked off the court in front of everyone so I was standing there on my own.

He also sometimes comments on my lack of practical skills, but I do this to myself too - does that make it ok for him to do it?

These things sound so little but there are lots of them and if I say I am hurt he gets so defensive.

...it's not really possible to say without knowing you both and hearing the nuances. Do you have a trusted friend who knows you both that you can confide in?

Yo know what it really doesn't matter how or why he says things, the fact is it upsets you and that alone should be enough for him to pack it in.

I don't think it's very nice behaviour that these comments are in front of other people. Our teasing tends to be in private just between the 2 of us.

What happens if you tell your dh that those comments hurt your feelings and they come across as put downs? Your dh has learnt this behaviour from a young age and it will be hard for him to stop it and he won't unless you point it out to him tbh.

Thanks for the replies.
If I tell him he either apologises or gets defensive and withdraws, which usually leads to me getting really upset and crying and often then leads to a big argument. We had one this morning. The actual comment seems so trivial in proportion to the argument, but..

Anyway he has said it's just him, he in no way intends to hurt my feelings and that if we are both being ourselves but can't get on then we have major problems

Sounds like an excuse to be mean.

My MIL would rather say something mean than lie...

Would he go to relate with you? Perhaps he needs to really hear how it makes you feel when he puts you down and you can both explore why he is putting you down more - or why you are more sensitive to it now than you used to be pre-children, loss of identity for you or loss of respect for him, or just both of you shattered!

Some very good points. I have actually just started going to relate on my own, but I think he would come with me if I ask him. I don't think the counsellor thinks I'm very nice though as we spent the first session discussing my past jealousy/insecurity, and I think he really sympathisised with dh! We didn't really get to discussing these put downs though.

sympathised

If it was just 'jokey' comments between the two of you, I wouldn't be so concerned, but he is deliberately saying and doing things in front of other people, including your child, that upsets you and I don't think that is right and I don't think you are being over sensitve. To walk off as he did when you were playing tennis is simply arsey behaviour. Its childish and must have hurt and embarrassed you and that was his intention I'd bet.

I've had more than my fair share of relationships with giant arses; having looked around at my friends who are in what I think are good and healthy relationships, the key seems to be that neither one of them tries to do or say anything that will upset/annoy the other. I'm not saying that they never get annoyed or irritated, but they wouldn't strop off and try to embarrass their partners in front of others. I think that is the key here.

Would it help to write him a letter if you get upset talking about it?

Could it be a bit of a vicious circle though, you are insecure/jealous and you've chosen a man who is going to manipulate you and be able to blame it on you? I mean this would happen at a subconscious level - has he picked you as someone who has similar personality traits to his mum?

If you were a strong confident woman you would probably tell him to f-off???

To be fair he does now concede that the tennis thing was out of order. But I agree with you -when it is in front of others it is worse. But I just feel he thinks I'm totally humourless now

I may try writing a letter next time, if only to avoid the argument that may happen otherwise.

Thanks for all the replies.

I don;t know - I think I do talk back to him a lot and that is why we argue. His mum is very submissive. But maybe there's an element of that, though I think the balance in the relationship has shifted massively from when we first got together.

My ex used to do this - he'd disguise a snide comment in a 'compliment' - the sort of "I don't care what everyone says, I think you're a great cook" type of thing.

He made so many negative comments about my physical appearance that I was terribly self-conscious about it for years.

It was all to compensate for his low self-esteem and this behaviour is not jokey - jokes are funny.

Tell him clearly how you feel when he makes these comments and point it out to him every time he does it.

It's the only way to make him aware of how this is affecting you.

You have made me think. My dh gets offended /upset at stuff I say that is just my attempt at humour/affection and I am genuinely puzzled /sometimes pissed off at him when he makes a big deal out of it. I have toned it down over the years but I do think he is oversensitive to the point of almost picking a fight so I have some sympathy for your dh

You see he sometimes sort of insists I am being a bit nasty when I absolutely am not. I get annoyed at him for inferring feelings/thoughts/opinions in me that don't exist.

I hope I am making sense and of some help

It's possible that he's thoughtless or actually insecure to the extent that he needs to put you down to make himself feel better. It is also possible that you have become more touchy over the years. Mind you, if you have a history of jealousy and insecurity, these personality traits are exasperating to live with, which may be driving some of his snide remarks, as well.
By the sound of it, both of you going to Relate might be a good idea, you might have got stuck in a habit of taking it in turns to pick at one another then flounce off all hurt, then blame each other for the row, etc.

I think your clue is here: "but I do this to myself too"

From your OP, I get the picture of a family where parental put-downs are that much too harsh, so the kids (your DH) have toned it down a lot. That would probably be OK with a rumbustious partner, who'd fire back or bat it away. But it sounds like you have quite a vicious inner critic, so everything he says seems to echo your inner nag! It's a bummer.

Afaics, you have two ways forward and it might be best to follow both. Talk to DH about it. Naturally, he's going to be a bit "tough" about it all, because that's what he was brought up to be. Still: if you manage to tell him it upsets you in general, with a few examples like you did here - from then on, you can say "Ouch!" when he delivers one of his barbs, and he'll know why you said it. The other thing to do is get yourself on an assertiveness course. It may not teach you anything you don't already know, but we can all do with a refresher sometimes!

Hope this works out for you okay

Ermm, if it doesn't - was there something more, which you felt scared to say?

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Small update - After the horrible argument on Thursday we had a generally nice weekend away - although had a mini argument where we were taking ds out, I thought we should carry him and DH thought he should walk over a bit of a path when we were out, DH said "no, he can walk". I asked him to listen to my opinion and he said "I did, and decided not to do it". I questioned why the decision was just up to him, but then dropped it because it was so trivial and I didn't want to argue. Apart from this one incident it was a good weekend.

Then last night we had an argument on the way home when I wanted to change my jumper, and he got stroppy and snapped at me because he didn't think we had time! I got upset again asking why he was getting stroppy when everything was so nice between us and he withdrew again Should I have just let this go and swallowed my feelings because it was nothing really? It's just an underlying feeling that he doesn't love/respect me I think, though he isn't horrible to me or anything like a lot of the men I read about on this board. Really, I'm pretty lucky, aren't I?

I appreciate the balanced comments and I am getting help with the jealousy thing which I know is so destructive, though we haven't had a specific issue with that for a while. I just wish I could be confident that DH still loves me

Grace - nothing else, you may have seen my previous posts where he thought he might be going to leave because of arguments like this. They stopped for a while and have now started again

Zooropa Having responded to your other threads, when he kept saying he was leaving you, then changing his mind again - I don't think this is as simple as "is it me or him?"

I think what you are describing is lots of low level disrespect - and I think there's a reason for that. I would well understand you thinking that he doesn't really love you or respect you, because you have got used to living in suspense about whether he's going to leave you.

You well know what I think is going on here - but as a general point I think that lots of disengaged partners dress up their put-downs as "jokes", when actually there is something more malevolent going on, even if they refuse to acknowledge it. People who do this have one foot out of the door - either because they are interested in seeing someone else, or because they are developing contempt for their partner.

The worst thing you can do in this situation is to change your behaviour and fight against your instincts - please don't accept that this is normal, you've got a lot to be grateful for etc. - you actually deserve to be treated with dignity and respect.

Thanks wwifn. I can see what you're thinking, dh of course denies anything underlying. I do feel so weird, just up and down and wondering if it's me. One minute I'll be thinking everything is great and then the next day that its not right. I even thought about leaving the other day but I've got nowhere to go and I can't imagine life without him. When he's nice everything is lovely and he is such a good dad to ds