NEED HELP AS TO WHETHER STAY WITH HUSBAND FOR SAKE OF CHILDREN

[cd4945]

Despite always coming to Mumsnet for advice over the last year I never actually thought I would "write in". After reading all the wonderful help a similar thread received, however, I am hoping for the same. Gosh where do I start?
Am 40 this year and have been married for almost 14 years and have 2 girls (aged 7 & 2). If it were not for them I would have called it a day before now but can't seem to get away from the idea that it is better to stay married for their sake. ADVICE PLEASE!!!
The problem is multi-fold (is there such a word?: My husband has always enjoyed a drink but in recent years this has escalated so much that for the 2nd time in 6 months he has not come back in until 8 in the morning - completely drunk (the first time without his jumper and shoes). This last time (4 days ago) is what has caused me to write in. He stumbled through the door. Could not walk. Could not talk and fell over when he picked up our 2 year old who had rushed to see him. Luckily our 7 year old was transfixed to the TV and did not see that not only was he drunk but that with him was a confirmed alcoholic whose marriage broke down last year.My H. soon passed out and remained in his bedroom (we have slept separately for over 2 years now)for 24 hours. He claims he cannot remember anything. I am not sure whether to believe him as he has lied so much about everything. I said the problem was multi fold - there have been lies about gambling, debts, and secret credit cards ( We re-mortgaged the house 12 years ago to pay off his previous credit card debts and he had vowed never to get another card - I found 2 just before this Christmas with £5,000 owing). I have found opened sexual enhancer pill packets in his pockets and wine/rum have been secretly drunk after I have gone to bed. He has called me terrible names and yelled at me (though not often) in front of the girls. The eldest has picked up on the vibes and tells us to stop fighting. I would love to be able to write that he is a wonderful, doting father but so often he just seems happy to have them out of the way and 99% of the time it is me who puts them to bed - even when they ask for Daddy. Our sex life is just that -SEX - I won't go into details but there is little love there.
But he is not all bad and will often bring me breakfast in bed. I am reminded of the Jekyll and Hyde character/the girl with the curl...
I just feel that I have now reached an important crossroads and don't know which way to turn. If I look back in 10 years time what will I wish I had done?
As with the last 8am episode my H is carrying on pretty much as normal although a bit quieter. He has said that he "will stop everything he has done for 25 years because you want that..." He has not said he wants it or how he will do it. He has not even said sorry. If it was me I would be doing all I could not just in words but actions as well. But nothing.I have suggested counselling in the past but he was not keen and now a part of me just doesn't seem to have the energy to try.
HELP PLEASE...

oystercard - alcohol is one of many many problems in my marriage. I had a one year separation from him a few years ago (living together again now for financial reasons. On the rare occasion he bothered to see our dc during our separation, I would not allow him to keep them overnight as he drinks every night and would not be alert enough if they needed him in an emergency during the night etc.

I will be faced with the same difficulty when my marriage finally divorces (which it will).
I suppose it will be different as there will be solicitors involved in the contact arrangements but I will still be left with the same concerns.

Tanga, that's extremely well put!

i think a good phrase used recently was "it is beter to come from a broken home (alcoholic home/gambling / debt ridden/ addicts home) than to live in one"

dont you think the children would benefit more from stable loving secure safe
no-shouting home with one parent than one with two parents and a marriage certificate?

where the toddler is at risk of being physically harmed by a drunken man who stubles across him, a man who doesnt know (or even remember) what he is doing; and the 7 year old spends her time telling her parents to "stop fighting"?

where is the joy for the child in that?

do you think they will grow up saying "well it was hell but at least they stayed together/stayed married for us!"

My mother left my father when I was 4 and my brother almost 2. We didn't have it easy; he refused child support, it was Thatcher's new Britain, she worked a job she hated to support us, etc. But I have great childhood memories, was happy and contented and well adjusted, I went on to form a strong marriage with a great man (11 years now) and my mother is one of my best friends.

I can't say that if they'd stayed together, I'd be able to say any of the above. He wasn't nearly as bad as your husband, just childish and selfish, but if she'd stayed I'd have picked up how unhappy they were, the contempt they were starting to have for one another, the fights and the tension.

Please take steps to leave. Your husband falling over with your two year old in his arms gave me chills.

Your eldest is already being affected by the behaviour of her father and it will only get worse.

You have no love between you and the bedroom seems to be home to some unacceptable behaviour.

You want more for yourself and your kids, surely.

Do not stay for the kids. How will they feel if you do, it gets worse, you are all unhappy and then find out you stayed for them. They will feel so guilty.

If you would be happy for your girls to have your life when they grow up stay with him - because you are teaching them that that is an acceptable relationship.

If you would tell your girls to run for the hills rather than be with a man like this - well says it all doesn't it.

Your responsibility as a set of parents is to teach your children how they should behave in relationships when they grow up - and you are teaching them that it is acceptable to put up with a drunken monster who treats them appallingly..

My first marraige ended when DD at 2 said - daddy don't hit mummy - I didn't want her becoming desensitised to how appalling what was happening was and accepting that it was ok for someone to physically hurt another human being!

"what if H just gets worse? How on earth could I leave our DD (12) with him?"

Oyster, I do think this is a legitimate worry. It depends on the H in question. With some men, you can tell them that they can't have the dc when drinking, and that's fine. They're rather be free to do their drinking. Even if they don't like it, they won't get it together to fight in court (and if they do, you can ask for things like a hair-strand test or a liver function test. It's legitimate not to want your dcs in the care of someone too drunk to care for them).

Where you have an ex who demands to have the dcs to stay, it can be harder. I do worry about my dd when she's in the care of her father, not because of drink but because he's a bully, and even if he hasn't turned on her yet, he might do one day. All I can say is that at least she knows what a peaceful home is like with me and that it's normal to be treated with kindness, so if/when things go wrong between her and her father, I'm in a better position to save her. It's not an easy answer or an immediate solution, but it's the best I can do.

My H is an alcoholic and I refused to let him have the dc other than during the day at the weekend, with no overnight stay, even though he was making a huge fuss about his rights to have them stay overnight with him.

I couldn't trust him not to sit and get drunk as usual during the evening.

Alot of the time, he chose not to bother to see them, and I presume, just chill out and enjoy a peaceful drink instead.

I learnt where his priorities are.

Never never stay for the sake of the kids. They won't thank you for it. Better to be raised in a one parent family that offers stability, peace, routine and of course love. Happiness or at least contentment will eventually follows once you get through all this. You husband has relinquished his responsibility as a husband and as a father. You do not owe it to him to stay. Look after yourself now so you can look after your kids. Good luck.

oystercard - I found that when xDH had to have the DCs on his own he had to be solely responsible for the first time in his life! When we were together he knew that he could get as drunk as he liked because I would look after them...once we were separated he didn't have that back-up.

It is important of course to be sure that the DCs are safe when they're with their Dad. I truly sympathise with your situation, but I guess if you separate and your DP doesn't sort himself out then he simply doesn't get to have the kids overnight?

Ivana - thanks, good point. He does just assume I'll sort everything out while he does whatever. I am now thinking it's 'when' not 'if' we split up and planning to spend some time thinking through how it would work. Feels like I've crossed a line lately

cd4945 - hope this thread is helping you, sometimes it's scary how many of us seem to be in the same boat

Fab post by Tanga.

Please leave. For your children.
(Un-MN hugs)

I remember my dad being drunk all the time. My mum was of the era that 'you made your bed' but I felt, at 13 years old, that she (and the four of us children) deserved so much more. I threw him out - I was 13 when I did it and went through years of guilt but my mother thanked me. She's a strong woman.

You must try to find the strength to leave. Sounds like your eldest is picking up the vibes, and that cannot be a good thing.

I am in a similar position, although my H does not drink. For a few years now I have been hoping, praying that things will improve, but now my dd sometimes picks up on the unhappiness of her mummy.

Are you staying for fear of the change in your life/financial etc? I know I am. If your like me, since I left home, I have never been on my own. Never had to cope on my own. But fear is just fear. It can be overcome.

You must find the strength to do what you need to do. Listen to your head, never trust your heart

I'm the daughter of an alcoholic too, please don't stay for the children's sake. Leave for their sake.

In most cases alcoholism just gets worse and worse. I witnessed my dad drink so much he vomited through his nose and collapsed, I had to try and bring him round. There were hundreds of things I saw and overheard that no child should have to know, and kids pick up on everything, don't tell yourself that they don't notice half of what's going on.

My dad was a bad man, your husband doesn't sound evil, just misguided and addicted. However that doesn't mean you should all hang on until he's siphoned off all your money for drink and ruined your children's childhoods.

It's sad but he's probably on a downward spiral. You need to stop enabling him and let go, your children are far too important.

hI oystercard, the fears of whether it would get worse after split-up are something I know well, for years I worried about worst scenarios(ex comes from Middle East.country) even relations would advise me to stay so as it didn't get worse etc and like you, I though how could I leave 3DC with him. But hey, theres nothing worse than fear, yes there have been a few bad scenes but the peacefulness, happiness and stressfree life the dc and I increasingly have are much, much bigger. Also it seems after the tough scenes that these type of irresponsible men are not really interested in seeing DC much (mine sees 2DC a few hours and finds oldest one too criical of his behaviour so prefers not to see..)given his personality thats o.k with me, his problem..I'm so glad I faced my fears though, my life is tough but authentic! Often comes totally different to you imagine anyway but no good living half a life is it so good luck!

I have been exactly like you OP, You wont leave until something clicks in your head and you move on, sad as it is it is true.

Something will happen and you will suddenly find his behaviour completely repulsive and you will despise what he is doing...

Prepare for this day, and u will feel like a huge weight has been lifted from your life

My life changing moment was coming home to a drunken DP, 1/2 way through a bottle of vodka, I tipped the rest of it down the sink (such a bad move!!), he launched his glass at me and it smashed on the wall above my head.....this i could deal with until i looked at DS who was sat on the couch trying desperatly to keep it together and i watched a trickle of blood run down the side of his face, a shard of glass had hit him in the face and cut him.....I never looked back from that moment, but I never walked away either, my life changing decision was to fight for the man i knew and loved and the father my children deserved.....he is now 2 years sober and deeply regrets his past behaviour. I had to be incredibly strong to do this and it ouwld probably been easier to walk away.

There is no right answer and im still not entirely convinced that the shoice I made was right, I just thought out family deserved the right to be the family it should be.

Megancleo, your post really resonated with me. I've spent a lot of time fretting about worst-case scenarios, and you're right, we have nothing to fear but fear itself!

It's like reading about my own life. My partner has come in at 8am three times in the last few weeks, drunk and very unpleasant. After going through his pockets the last time I found receipts for two thousand pounds spent in a lap dancing club.He has just lost his latest job for being drunk and abusive on the premises. He blames the stress of our situation - We have just had triplets and have a six year old and live in a two bedroomed flat. I have been so unhappy for so long, keep hoping he'll change, stay in a job for more than a month etc etc. I finally convinced him to give me a few weeks 'break' but am feeling so guilty. One minute so sure that I'm doing the right thing and the next wracked with guilt about breaking up the home and fearful of terrible scenes..he gets furious and throws things around. As I write this I know what I must do..make this break final but I'm totally exhausted by months of rows, terrible scenes let alone caring for three tiny babies. Finding the energy and strength to make the end final feels so hard.
Wow, as I write this down I realise that I sound a bit pathetic...isn't it just blindingly obvious that this man needs to be out of my life??? It's incredibly comforting to read other posts..inspiring too.

em1234, what kind of a home are you breaking up-one where theres terrible scenes and your totally worn down from the stress!amazing how these men always blame the situation on something and for sooo long we accept it even though our gut feeling is a family home could be different.Certainly not always easy on the other side(this morning I screamed at my teenager cuz I was scared of too much debt, too little work and life alone with dc in Germany) but afterwards I apoligised and we returned to the easygoing happiness that we have only had since ex left. With triplets you must be very exhausted, get any help you can and don't be so hard on yourself. Perhaps you know you must leave him but need a little time, thats o.k, takes time to plan sucessfully. Start building your confidence again and see it all towards the main aim-thats not pathetic, thats making the first move!Only when that new frame of mind starts kicking in do us women stop making excuses for husb lousy behaviour and slowly start to feel strong enough to move on!

Megancleo you are so right. Tonight is the first time I've looked at this website and I'm so glad I found it...I know what I have to do it's just a case of sticking to my decision and not being afraid of a man who throws tantrums, screams and rants and raves and yep, blames, blames, blames....
I seem to need constant reassurance that I'm not going mad and that his behavious IS unacceptable...I guess self doubt is a symptom of being in a relationship like this.
The tricky thing is that it's my flat, in my name and he has refused to leave. Miraculously I've got him to go to his parents for three weeks but he's due back in ten days..do i let him come back in to pack up his stuff and give him the benefit of the doubt(he's saying he wants three days here to organise his stuff etc and then he'll go for good) or do i pack up his stuff and change the locks etc as everyone is telling me to do. It just seems so harsh and I worry so much about my six year old seeing awful scenes...

Haven't read the rest of the thread - but my answer is a definite no.

My parents have always had a rocky relationship, for as long as I can remember. When I was 10 my dad walked out.........then begged my mum to let him back. She agreed "for the children"........

21yrs on and I'm still trying to figure out what good it did us her letting him back when their relationship has never really improved, and it never made it any better for us.

I have just separated from my XH of 10yrs.......there was no hanging around for the children.

Haven't read all the thread either but my dad was a heavy drinker and my parents rowed furiously and then made up in a nauseating way.

I hated my childhood. I hated the instability and the not knowing when dad would fly off the handle as he was drunk.
He didn't hit my mum but did hit us and it was scary.

I still to this day wish she'd left him. They're still together and thankfully, finally he's recently cut down his drinking to very normal levels. I wish he'd done that 35 years ago.

If your H can't stop drinking please don't stay for your dcs. you are doing them the opposite of a favour.

em1234,yep, self-doubt does seem to play a large role with us doesn't it? Deep down I knew his "explained" behaviour like drinking all night every weekend wasn't right for us as a family but still I tried to understand him.Thank goodness, I moved on but still I occasionaly catch myself trying to "understand" why he can't pay maintenance or have dc regularly-have to keep working on it though! Theres always a tricky thing or two isn't there? Mines being in Germany when a large part of me would like to be in England but I truly think only you can decide how stressful it will really be to go the way of changing locks etc, of course its good to hear others opinions but only you can really judge what MIGHT be the best way. I chose to return to G last summer so as not to put more "heat in the fire" but stuck to my biggest goal of leaving him. Thats whats important if you want to move on, so don't be worried about making wrong decision(like letting him come back for 3 weeks) not important in the big plan of things!

A friend has not the same degree of problem, but she and her husband are not in love any more, but they have two children together, of similar age to yours. She stays with him for them and because he'd cause problems about who would have custody.
However, I would say, as drunk as he's getting, his body will suffer. Has he ever tried to stop drinking? Hasn't he seen how much it hurts you? Hasn't he thought about the effect that it may have on the children especially at their impressionable age?
I wish you well in finding out a solution that's good for you all.