Was I being judgemental?

[bodinapod]

DH has always had a thing about never talking about or judging other people. He flys off the handle if he thinks I'm judging people, if I say anything remotely negative.

We had an argument today that really upset me. He came back from visiting his brother in prison for the first time, along with his mother and his brother's gf. He was telling me about it. I asked a question, which I can't remember, and then I asked if his brother had asked after our children. DH shook his head and said "god, such judgemental questions." He said the implication was that his brother was a terrible person for not asking after our children. I said it was a reasonable thing to ask.

DH always does this. He says my questions are probing and difficult. I just asked if my BIL asked after my children, I don't see why that is so wrong.

I just don't think I can take any more. I like discussing everything, including people. He doesn't. And I feel I have to be so careful what I say, he never gives me the benefit of the doubt. He thinks I have negative motives behind every simple question.

Now we're not speaking. Again.

he's being manipulative.

he doesn't wish to answer a question so rather than there being something wrong with his attitude to questions, there has to be something wrong with you, the questioner.

thanks for replies.

I don't want to go into specifics of what his brother did but he pleaded guilty, and yes it's something worthy of judgement and condemnation. Although his lawyers did not expect him to get a prison sentence.

DH is very bad at talking about difficult things. It was a real effort for him to talk about this. He tends to shut down and go into denial about hard stuff.

We have had very bad arguments in the past when I have said something negative about someone close to him or his family, like saying his brother's girlfriend made me feel uncomfortable. He says that it is not right to feel angry, that anger isn't good. And yet he gets very angry.

I have just had enough of him getting mad at me for asking probing questions. This does seem to be his way of saying he finds the questions emotionally uncomfortable and can't handle it. But I feel he's not giving me the respect I deserve.

A guess - is his mother an incredibly judgemental and negative person?

Not that that would make it reasonable of fair for him to be the "judgement police" at you!

He sounds like he's got a bit of a mess in his head. Has it always been like this?

Mmm he thought "actually my brother didn't ask" and felt that maybe he should have. That then became your fault in his mind. Don't communicate with him and when he asks you why tell him you're sick of playing games

NotQuiteCockney - spot on.
His mother has behaved IMO appalling towards DH WRT his brother going to prison. He is the eldest brother of three. She is actively supporting the son in prison her youngest. But DH she never gives the benefit of the doubt to. Expects him to support everyone else but doesn't give him support in return. Is harshest on him, cannot see his many good qualities but always jumps to negative conclusions about him.

It has always been like this between DH and I, yes. He feels criticised very easily, and becomes defensive. He is admits that he finds communicating about 'difficult' topics very hard and stressful and has worked very hard at that because he knows I do need to talk about things. He went to counselling about his anger in the past as that was a problem for us. He has made efforts.

He is very complicated. On one hand he is an amazingly supportive person who has been there for me during difficult times and who supports me in everything I do.

But this defensiveness about criticism about other people has remained and I am sick of it. He is not critical of his mother to her face, but he is very judgemental of me. I feel that I have to compromise a side of my personality, or else feel that I am this gossipy bitch who sees the worst in people.

It destroyed our friendship with his best friend and his wife a few years ago. We were all out together - at the time DH and I weren't getting on well- and hsi BF's friend made a comment to DH. It wasn't bad, but something I found cheeky. I mentioned it casually to DH and he got angry at me, said there was no way she'd have said that, said negative things about me (I can't remember what) and asked the woman if she had said this. She confirmed she had. DH burst into tears and was taken off by his BF. Things were not good with them after that and DH stopped seeing his BF. I still feel guilty about it.

The other side to this is that he has always been very judgemental of me. Not about the big things (the way I look etc) but smaller issues. This is something he has worked on so he doesn't do it. He does have a harsh manner sometimes, and I do think he doesn't quite realise the strength of his tone, how dismissive it is.

Phew. Good to get that off my chest.

Ok ... so what can/will you do about this?

Do you have kids? Do you want them repeating this pattern?

Is therapy an option for him? Or for you, to work out how to better manage him, and/or to work out why you have chosen him.

About his friendship that got destroyed - please don't feel guilty. That wasn't your fault. The wife said something cheeky, and your husband got the hump. How is that your fault? Ok, sure, you told him about it, but if she was likely to say cheeky things, if he missed that one, he would hear a later one. (Did she make the original comment to him? And he didn't hear it? Or what? But once it came out of your mouth, then he heard it?)

He is seeing you as his mother. Anything you do that reminds him of his mother, even the tiniest bit, is setting him off. At the same time, he is copying his mother's behaviour, by being wildly judgemental.

He doesn't realise any of this, isn't doing any of it on purpose. And if you tell him about it, odds are he will become furious and deny it all entirely.

Hence my question about therapy.

Yes, it is a judgemental question. As for the rest of it, don't know, but that question: Did he ask after our children? that's judgemental.

Its not what you do as much as how you do it.

You have to recognise that whenever there is friction between a wife and her MIL, it spells massive problems for the husband as both women will always claim they are correct, they will frequently not even try to understand the position of the other and the latest issue will always come up in conversations the husband has with each of the ladies. It is one of the most stressful things to deal with (it ranks up there with Christmas shopping) and we go to great lengths to avoid the conversations and so will either go quiet, walk away or lash out when the topic is mentioned. There is no upside for us as the two most important ladies in our lives, who we feel duty bound to protect etc, are at war and so we are in a no win situation. Sadly, the MIL will generally be able to get her other children on her side so it becomes almost a strain between your DH?s relationship/duties to you and his relationship/duties to his blood relatives.

YABU if you ask ?Did brother ask after our children?. He has been with his mother and brothers to see the horrible conditions that his youngest brother will have to endure and they are probably shocked and woried about the immediate future for all of them. Your kids are probably not on the brother?s mind. If you were to say ?I imagine that it was very difficult seeing X at the prison...tell me about it? and then shut up (this is the important bit...may work better if you hand him a beer at this point also!!) while he talks, then youll find out what happened. If the children dont get a mention, say ?Did you mention to X that mine and the childrens thoughts are with him? then you willl probably get a more civilised response.

?Phew. Good to get that off my chest? You have MN. He has noone to speak to about this if his best friend is history and all the other players in this drama are too close to it. You have to take that role but pick your moment and your words carefully, mostly asking questions that cant just be answered with a yes or a no.

Actually it sounds a bit passive aggressive to me, and maybe without thinking you do it a lot and that's what annoys him. The sort of question to which one feels one is "admitting" something if you give the wrong answer: and to which, if one objects, the other person says: What? I'm only asking. When actually the question is extremely loaded.

Relate. I think it would help both of you. I wouldn't have asked the question in a similar situation. He'd just been to prison to visit his brother and your children wouldn't have top of their priority to discuss. More like how the brother was coping and going to get through his sentence.

Just read the other posts: can't believe the suggestions that he's playing games and needs therapy and "don't communicate with him."

It's all about you, huh?

It's about her when she's treading on eggshells and he always does it. Obviously.

Maybe she is always asking loaded questions. Maybe he feels like he's treading on eggshells in danger of opening himself to criticism.

"I don't see why that is so wrong".

You ought to think really, really hard about that.

I do think that asking 'did he ask after the children' could be said in a 'fgs your waste of a brother, does he ever think about anyone else' sort of tone. Or it could be conversational. I don't know how it was said.

Father of Two Boys, I don't know that the OP has had problems with her MIL - it sounds like her husband has problems with his mother, which is a different thing altogether. I do agree with you about a more helpful way to have a difficult conversation, fwiw.

The combination of a husband who blows up whenever his wife says anything critical about anyone, but who is also v critical himself, has got to be very draining.

Yes, there are some relationships where people feel they're treading on eggshells for fear of opening themselves to criticism - but the OP's DH is blowing up at any sign of the OP crtiticising anyone - which sounds like issues he has with his mother, and not the OP's fault at all.

Thanks for replies.

FatherOfTwoBoys, I mentioned I have issues with how MIL has handled things and treated DH, but did not say whether there is fiction between us or not. But DH agrees with me that she handled things badly.

btw, this isn't AIBU so please don't use the YABU phrase!

And you're assuming that I launched in with my children comment and didn't ask DH about the visit generally. Of COURSE I did. I love BIL and am worried about him too, and DH is well aware of this. We sat down and DH told me all about it. He was with BIL for over an hour. Fortunately BIL is coping v. well and the conditions are apparently fine, and he seemed in good spirits and his prison stretch will be short, he has an end date. So DH told me all about the more heavy stuff, then got into more general chitchat about the visit and that's when I asked my question. I meant it conversationally. BIL has always been a lovely and fairly involved uncle who my children adore. I am very sad they won't get to see him for some time and also that I have to be vague if they ask where he is.

I am interested to hear that some people think what I said was judgemental and I shall definitely try and work on that. But I also think that DH does have an issue with his mother and is very sensitive because of years with her. She has done and said some very harsh, critical things.

Anyway, DH apologised yesterday and we had a very good talk yesterday about it and how we can have a better conversation. He is working a lot better at not blowing up at the sign of me criticising anyone but it is a touchy issue because it has been the cause of our most major rows. I am seriously considering some short-term counselling about this.

btw FOTB, I had to laugh at your comment about DW/MIL rows being up there in stress-level terms with Christmas Shopping. DH absolutely hates Christmas Shopping, finds it incredibly stressful. Partly because when he was younger, if MIL didn't like the presents he'd bought her, she would throw them back at him.