Marriage - whats actually the point then?!

[applecharlotte]

My parents divorced when I was six.

Most of my friends parents and a couple of friends themselves are also separated/divorced (we're in our late twenties).

I'm in a lovely long term relationship with a fantastic man and marriage is talked about every now and then, though usually after a bottle or two of wine.

We have no doubts (at the moment!) that we want to be together forever but reading the heartache on these boards, seeing so many people unhappily married or going through divorces in RL, I'm starting to wonder why get married at all? The odds are certainly against you!

What do people think? Just interested in peoples views really..

There is no perfect choice, just what makes the two of you comfortable and makes your legal positions clear.

I suspect that if DH and I had not married 20 years ago we would still be together but being married is important to both of us. If he asked me again this morning i would do it again in a heartbeat and so would he.

But I love being married and he loves it too. We feel more of a family like this - that may not be how others see it but it is how we feel. And I think how we feel about that comitttment is key. We always viewed marriage as important - I never would have questioned 'what is the point'. so perhaps the fact that you are asking that question means that a marriage really wouldn't make much difference to you anyway ?

I think personal experience does make a difference too. My parent were married at 16 until my dad died at 74. Dhs parents have een together since university. My sisters have been married 28 years and 19 years, my brothers 28 years, 26 years and 22 years. Two other siblings are on second marriages but they are both more than ten years long.

I guess you either both view it as a matter of significance or you don't. neither position is 'right' but it may determine whether it adds an extra layer of comittment which supports and strengthens your relationship or whether it doesn't

No problem Barefoot..

We talk about getting married a lot, almost as if its just something we're automatically going to do which catches me off guard at times! DP is also getting more and more specific so I'm feeling like a propsal may be imminent. I guess I'm trying to understand my feelings before that moment comes!

It feels right in my heart, but its my head thats trying to rationalise this in light of how many bad marriages i've known.

I think because I've seen the pain going through a divorce can cause I almost want someone to guarentee it wouldn't happen to us - ridiculous I know!

Obviously any relationship breaking down it horrible regardless if the couple are married or not.. so I know my worries are flawed.

I think I agree with Pagwatch. It is the way I feel, and I can understand how your view is shaped by personal experience (in my case, of long lasting marriages and few divorces).

I just have this conviction that marriage is better for children, because of the separation rate. Women know this, and sometimes I think when I read about a couple who don't want to get married "for the sake of it", I think -- I wonder if she really does but he doesn't see the need.

That's why I asked my nosey questions. If it's such a little thing, why not go ahead: and if it's such a big thing, doesn't that mean something significant is missing.

I don't know. What's right for you is right for you.

I cross posted I was wrong in my presumptions and I'm sorry for that. I hope everything works out for you and that you feel "right" about doing it.

I'm sorry applecharlotte I don't understand where you're coming from. You can be committed to someone and unmarried and married and uncommitted to your spouse. Right?

Marriage is purely a legal procedure to let the outside world that you wish to be known as a unit (horrible word). Because, if you don't, they won't know and if your partner dies intestate his family will inherit not YOU.
You can, of course, make a claim as a dependent but getting anything is not guaranteed as it would be in marriage.

To the poster who put how things are regarding relationships in other countries:
I realise that other countries may treat those living together as married but in the UK we tend to respect people's choices and don't make assumptions about people's private life purely because they're having sex under the same roof.

Pag - thanks for taking time to post, I'm going to have a think about what you said about marriage maybe not being as important to me as others because of my experiences.
If it ain't broke and all that...

Bare - no need to apologise. Its been great hearing your view.

To be honest just hearing peoples really positive experiences have helped me loads. I guess there's a romantic deep down in there somewhere..perhaps I've just been too scared to admit it.

I want to get married because I want to wear a lovely dress, assisted by my equally dolled up best friends, and have a big party

applecharlotte You say if it ain't broke...

I am assuming here - and correct me if I am wrong- that if you were to die unexpectedly or your partner were to die unexpectedly you'd both wish the other to inherit your worldly goods.

Sadly, tragedies DO happen in life.

So, if you both wish the other to inherit then you have two choices:

1, Make wills.
2, Marry.

Please put aside the notion that marriage is anything but a legal/formal procedure because it is only a legal thing when all is said and done. You don't need a piece of paper to love someone, but you very much do to prove it to the legal system/authorities.

at Otter

I try not to think about the fact that ,having been married 20years, if he fucks off I am single and seriously minted

actually I can join in with some filthy lucring

riches could lie with me

but i'd rather it was my dh

doesn't stop me mentioning it every now and then

at Fio

I quite like being married - we have been together for about 17 years and married for 10. My parents also divorced young (married far too young) (also mother a mentalist) and have both been married twice each since then. I just roll my eyes at them, tbh.

There are all sorts of legal and financial things that are just easier, spec when you have children or an illness. I feel pretty neutral about that as a reason for getting married, since all those things are sortable by other means (it's just a faff if you're not married).

It's just a positive thing, isn't it? I am not big on the public declaration (we had a tiny marriage ceremony) but we don't often really celebrate things in life which are just done for the sake of being positive and joyful, and feeling like you want to be with someone and s/he wants to be with you is something to celebrate, if you want to. Whether publicly or privately; with a ceremony or not. We chose 'with'.

What you see on these boards is not representative of marriage in general. It's a self-selecting cohort of difficult relationships. People don't generally post when things are going well.

I'm in the middle of a separation, but certainly wouldn't rule out marriage again in future.

Marriage is first and foremost a legal contract to do with property rights and inheritance. All the rest is sentiment and superstition. This does not mean there's anything wrong with wanting the celebration, the public commitment, the 'special feelings' and all that - lots of people get married, stay married and are glad about it. And good luck to them.
However, some people don;t want to marry because they have ideological objections to the institution (which does have an unpleasant past; women as property, licence to rape and all that). And good luck to them too.
It doesn';t sound from your posts as though either you or your partner have the ideological objections to marriage, Applecharlotte, so if you are both up for the idea go ahead and good luck.

I didn't think marriage would make any difference to our already happy and stable relationship, but it did, in a brilliant way.

Hard to articulate the reasons but for me they include being even more recognised and supported as a couple by family, friends and community; being able to plan your future together with a feeling of absolute certainty you each still want to be together in 10 years time; merging your lives/ finances/ calendars fully and feeling like a great unit; giving your kids more feeling of family unity and certainty; making a really conscious effort to be a great spouse and to celebrate what you have together; knowing you are legally as well as voluntarily joined.

None of these things are impossible without marriage of course but for me it provided a helpful framework and a special feeling.

For me there was also a faith element -it felt like their was then a purity and 'rightness' to our relationship that distinguished it from previous partnerships, but obviously that's a personal perception/ belief.

Marriage offers you legal protection should your partner die or leave you. You only have to browse the relationships boards to see how being unmarried can leave you high and dry with respect to your children's home if your DP decides to have a mid life crisis and leave you for an OW.

Emotionally I see no difference between being a partner or a wife. However, as I am not a UK citizen, being married gave my child the right to a British passport. I figured it was worth having a big party and the years of delight to be had teasing DH about being the 'trouble and strife' to go through with it.

It hems you in horribly if you split up

I don't really see a difference between a long-term relationship and marriage, but legally they are different.

Personally I knew I wouldn't have children without being married - purely for financial reasons. My career has taken a massive setback since having the DCs and I know earn far less than my colleagues who did not have children. I also have less promotion prospects. So, I knew that I wanted to be married for the financial security of the DCs. Obviously you can sort this out in other ways, I just felt marriage was the easiest.

And, standing up in front of the people you care most about, and making that public commitment can help give you strength to get through the tough times that every relationship has!

I was with my XP for a decade or more and eventually, the fact that we weren't mutually willing to make a lifelong legal commitment to each other (and we did have a mortgage together, btw) pointed to our unwillingness to make more of an effort to stop the rot (complacency, taking each other for granted, ebbing sex life) when it set in.

I am now married and it definitely has a different "feel" to it compared with cohabiting, more than a simple ring and piece of paper. More solid, somehow and - yes - more special. An acknowledgment to each other that we intend to be in this for life, come what may.

It feels wonderful that someone wants to be this committed to me and I know DH feels the same. It's a lot more than who gets to inherit what IMO.

PS My parents are both twice divorced.

I liked being married. I liked being the 'unit' thing. But he was a secret fantasist. I didn't know and nor did a lot of people who had known him far longer than I.

It was hell in the end. The fall-out, being the woman, has been shit. I would never take a man's surname ever again. Or have a joint bank account. Or any of those other 'marriagey' things that I used to feel proud of.

I think it highly improbable that I will ever live with a man again let alone marry. Highly unlikely I will ever seriously 'go out' with a man.

Be very careful. get to know his friends and his family. WELL. Check him out. Ask to see his credit record and observe how he is when he eats and shits, how he is in company, read lots of red flaggy type books. Go on holiday together a few times before you think about marriage or living together. Don't marry him if you have the SLIGHTEST niggling doubt.

UA, you've just reminded me of something I keep meaning to add when this question crops up.

If you make your lives together without being married, you can cover all the usual eventualities with perfectly simple contracts and a will. Which is both fine and sensible.

If that relationship breaks down, however, you'll then find yourself with pretty much the same problems as if you'd been married - arguments over entitlement, childcare and so on. You can handle this by adding clauses to your setup contracts, setting out how things should be divided if you split up - you can also add various conditions to that (minimum get-out period, how many children, illness, etc, etc.)

Funnily enough, this is actually easier than divorcing - not emotionally, of course, but in the practical sense. Pre-nups are not legally binding in the UK but simple contracts are. Plus, there's something about setting up 'living together' agreements that makes it seem logical to include provisions for things going wrong ... something we rarely do when we marry!

I think I'd choose to create my own 'marriage' with the help of a solicitor & an accountant ... AND have the massive party with posh frocks & romantic holiday