What happens when you aren't in love anymore?

[usuallyfoundinkitchen]

What happens when you aren't in love anymore? And it is complicated by you having kids?
We have two and a bit kids together, no 3 is due today. No 3 was an accident and he really pushed me to abort. I couldn't and wouldn't as it is not something I agree with as such, as we have been together 12 years and already as I have said have the two kids. He hasn't really supported this decision. He wants to be at the birth and says he will be good to the baby as none of this is her fault. It is entirely mine as he sees it. He thinks this has been done deliberately. He has called me loathsome and various other things, and recently said that he would not have sex with me again even wearing six condoms as I cannot be trusted. That pretty much suits me fine. I miss physical contact such as hugs etc, but I do not want sex with him as I do not fancy him nor even love him anymore.
He is what I would class as an ostrich. He hides his head and won't talk about problems. But the way I see it is without a sex life and trust and respect, we have nothing left as a relationship. We have the kids and that is all that is keeping us together and all that we now have in common. My sister in law thinks I should get out for the kids sake, they seem oblivious to it all right now but how long can that last? He has been depressed I think for sometime now as he had an accident at work and has been at home for a considerable amount of time. Again his inner ostrich comes out and he will not talk about it or do anything to help himself.
I am trying to keep the family together. I spend all my time trying to keep the kids happy which they are, the bills paid, the house clean etc and he just sits on the games console, goes out with his mates on his bike or walks his dog. It is crap to be honest, and although it is an existence it is far from being a happy one. The kids keep me going as I am doing it all for them, but deep in my heart I know if it weren't for them, I would already have left.
Where do we go from here though?

Could someone please answer? I can't talk to anyone about this as everyone seems to think we have a golden relationship.

He needs to know and he needs to get help. He does sound depressed; pretty unlikeable at the moment too. What was your relationship like before all this?

It sounds like you both really need some help, possibly him first.

You need to tell him how you feel. As someone who is going through this from the other side at the moment, I can vouch that it hurts like hell to find out, but if you want to try to work things out, it will be worth it to kick-start things.

What exactly happened when you got pg with no.3? Contraception is a joint responsibility - did you have a failure? If he could understand exactly what happened, could he stop blaming you for it?

I think I would try and stick with it for the moment. You have almost 3 young kids and I would try and get the situation a bit more stable before making a final decision. It is a long time to wait, but sometimes it is said, don't divorce in the first 2 years of a child's life because things haven't settled etc (obv doesn't apply to cases of violence, extreme probs etc. Things must be really stressful for you all at the moment, but it is tough when kids are young.

this is going to sound harsh

if there is no intimacy and no respect, you might as well be a domestic appliance

and you seem to be acting like one...keeping the house going, caring for the kids etc while he sits on his arse playing juvenile games

how many children did you say you had ?...add one more large one

so he is depressed...maybe he is. Not seeking help for it is detrimental to you all...but where is his incentive to change anything?...if you carry on the way you are...you are enabling him, love

what do you get out of this arrangement ?

that is the question I would be asking myself

He pushed you to abort? Sounds like a complete twat to me. He should be supportive of your decision to keep your baby and there is no way he should be blaming you. I would leave if he carries on like that. He's not making you happy. Do want a relationship with no sex anyway?

Thanks for the responses. Anyf*cker, you have hit the nail on the head in terms of how I feel. Really, I couldn't of put it better myself.
To answer the contraception issue, I had come off of the implant after nearly 3 years as my dr suspected I had endometrosis. I came off of the implant to see if the intense pains etc I was having were linked to that, and he knew that and we were both stupid on a couple of occasions. He said if the "worst happened we would deal with it". I thought at that point we were strong enough to deal with anything, but the baby was far from intentional.
To answer the question, what do I get out of this arrangement? Well in terms of love and security from him, I get none. I get no intimacy and no respect. But I do get my kids. He would fight me hammer and tong for custody and whilst I don't have any real concerns about me winning, as I believe I would I am not in a position to take it on right now with the new baby being imminent.

I see that you are in no position to take on a fight just now

I really hope you are planning your exit strategy though, love

I believe he would make little headway with a custody battle. As your dc are very young, I doubt even that shared custody would be on the table (someone might correct me on this, am no expert at all)

please resolve to make a better life for yourself, you and your children deserve more than this

I won't harp on about bad models of a relationship being taught to your dc, 'cos I get the feeling you are well aware of that

but do have a thought to what you would advise your daughter to do in this situation and remind yourself you are worthy of the same

all the best to you and good luck with the new baby x

I think that anyfucker hits the nail on the head with the domestic appliance thing.

It resonates with me as I'm needed, yet hated. I do so much but get no thanks only derision. My husband is victim as he feels hard done by but at the same time hoas told me he'd fight tooth and nail to the point we'd lose our property to get sole custody of ds. Yet he needs me to even organise the biannual family daytrip. It does wear you down - I have one kid - you have more.

You're going to be busy but find the time to make your own plans if that's what you decide.

Don't let him benefit from your new lovely addition yet blame you. Just don't.

giveitago, I am sorry to see you have such insight, unfortunately because you are experiencing it

you are being emotionally and financially abused...you do know that, don't you ?

the easy thing to do is get out. but then your children will never have the chance of a happy home with their two parents. the harder thing (but IMO, the right thing) is to give it your best shot together. he is displaying typical 'head in sand' male behaviour. he needs to get his head out the sand and facing you and your family. you must have loved each other once - you need to see if it can be brought back to life. I'd get some 'relate' counselling. I think men who find it difficult to talk sometimes find it easier to do it with professional counselling, out of the house, with a neutral person nthere too. if you can force him there somehow. or even if you go by yourself to start with. I bet he's hurting inside too, but is displaying it as anger.

GG, that is a very unhelpful statement "your children will never have the chance of a happy home with their two parents...."

when one of those parents is emotionally abusing and chipping away at the self-confidence of the other...it is not a happy home

it is statemnts like that which impel some people to endure unhappy and demoralising marriages for the "sake of the children"

when it might have been better to get out, get your self-esteem back and show your dc you are a strong woman who will not tolerate being treated as anything less than a loved and cherished partner

you can still be a "family"...but both partners can be happier living apart and co-parenting

unfortunately some twats, when the "domestic appliance" starts getting ideas above her station, turn nasty because they see their control slipping away

that is no reason to endure it...it is simply just one more reason why you should seek help in RL to end a relationship like this

I would like to be able to give it another go. I would as we have been together for over a third of our lives. But he would not go to counselling. He won't even speak about it at home. Tried last night. Told him I am being tired of being told to shut up all the time. And I mean all the time. He apologised for that, but then went on to say that I had done this as I had chosen to have the baby and what I want I always get. In the end I went to bed. Sometimes there is just no point.
I view us as both to blame for the new pregnancy. He knew and agreed to me coming off of the implant. It was meant to be a sort of experiment to see if the pains I was having were linked to that, as in the past I have had quite a horrid I stay on it the worse the side effects come, mood swings, womb pains and even on a couple of occasions massive spots all over my body which took 4 months of treatment to disappear. I am obviously not "made" for long term contraceptive use and the implant was the last thing for me to try. He was booked in for the snip a few years back as we took the idea it was a joint responsibility and due to age etc they wouldn't do me yet. But then he pulled out and wouldn't go through with it. On that note again, when I came off of the implant I bought a heap of condoms to carry us through the contraception gap and he refused to use them. As I said earlier I view us both to blame for this accident, but how was I to know my husband thought abortion was a realistic contraceptive option (in his head)?
Also when he freaked about the pregnancy this time, I thought it was just history repeating as he did the same with our eldest son initially, and he was tried for. Then he calmed down and was very supportive. But he did put me through hell initially and broke my heart. I did learn to love him again and he was a good dad and husband. Then we had second son who was a nightmare baby and things got tougher, he got less patient, more frustrated with the state of the house even though most nights I got maybe an hour of sleep tops and had a toddler to contend with all day. Then he had his accident and slipped into this funk of just sitting and doing bugger all. I have tried to tell him he is clearly depressed and so have his mates, but he is like a brick wall. He is also rather childish in a way as it is never his problem, it is always mine. I cause everything to go wrong and it is never him. He is totally blinkered and he is non-realistic.
I am a strong woman. But right now I have the baby to concentrate on. Usually I sound more like you do Anyf*cker, as I have been through a hell of a lot in my life and I have always come out fighting. But right now, my health and the baby's come first. Obviously the kids are equally as important, but as I said they are probably aware of the fact there is tention in the house but they show no sings of unhappiness. They are both bubbly and outgoing and very loving boys. I am very proud of them both. I do wonder if it is because the tentions did start some years ago that they never see them as they are used to them. That is just Mum and Dad. We don't have screaming matches but we do bicker and that is all they see, odd niggles about housework etc. We have not discussed the baby issue when they are awake or at home. My husband was brought up in an abusive home relationship, as was I and we refuse to let our kids go to sleep hearing us fighting.
I might maybe look into counselling on my own. I need to be able to vent this all out some how. My family and his know nothing of this, so the last few months have been hard going as everyone thinks we are excited and doting parents, when he is far from it and I am a little more on the nervous side than the excited one.

I read a lot on MN about people splitting up and I really wonder how people cope financially.

It is hard enough for most of us to keep one household running. But how do you suddenly start running two?

If the woman and child keeps the house, how does the man afford to buy a new place? Does he start a new mortgage from scratch?

Is it just that each half becomes poorer, sells up and lives in more cramped accommodation? Do you both work even harder at jobs to make ends meet?

I'm not just being nosey, I really wonder how people manage after all the upset of splitting up, to then struggle financially too. Thank you for any info.

Re above post, sorry everyone, I was going to start a new thread and did it all wrong. Ignore me! I'll try again another day.

usuallyfound, I don't think there is much point in trying to salvage your relationship (to be brutal). I find it hard to believe that men who can't be arsed to get themselves to a therapist or GP for treatment would fight for custody of their children either but, of course, this is a big risk and I do understand why it tempers what you feel/think etc. Can't help feeling these men say it to keep control...

If I were you, I would be working out how to get him out of your home. You will have three DCs and I don't see why you should be expected to uproot the family. I would also start to keep a diary of his behaviour (I know this sounds obsessive but I think as much as evidence as possible is always a good thing). I'd take a longer term view but set a limit, say two years maximum and have a strategy worked out accordingly.

Unless he changes completely, I can't see how this gives you anything or provides a healthy environment for your children.

Sorry if this is too blunt.

having read your latest post, this sounds sadder than I had first thought. You mentioned that he grew up in an abusive home and it sounds like he is just repeating the stuff he heard his parents say to eachother.

I think he would have to accept this in order to rectify things.

He also needs to understand that he is fully to blame for the pregnancy - he had full knowledge you were off the implant and he refused to use condoms. Abortion is not a method of birth control and he needs to understand this!

I don't know how you can get through to him if he just screams at you to shut up. Would you be able to get your kids looked after by grandparents or someone else so that you could have a serious talk with him? Because if he won't talk, you can't fix this and you will need to leave him.

Thanks for the responses. No, we have nobody who can help look after the kids.
The diary idea had occured to me. It is something I will be doing as evidence is no bad thing.
To answer the financial question. We do not own our home, thankfully. We are in a council rent, so I would be looking to apply for a home of my own from either the local council or housing association. This would obviously be depending on their stock etc. We did look at buying our house a couple of years back, but then pulled out due to financial worries which worked out just as well as he was made redundant shortly after. We live in an area where work is pretty sparse so at the moment we are in benefits. In the long run the plan would be to get off them, if we stayed together, as he has always worked and I have always run the house.
When the baby is older I would be looking at going to work, even just part time. But I have been actively seeking work for quite some time in the town we live in without any joy as more shops are closing than opening and nowhere is taking on staff.
I think for couples with mortgages etc the CAB would be a good place to start as they have a good financial help team who are free, we have used them for debt issues in the past. Thankfully, we are debt free and managing to keep our heads above water.
It is still tough and it is a tough decision to have to make. I was up last night and I had a potter on the parentline website, so am going to go with their free online counselling service for myself as it helps to get it all out and not to bottle it up.

i didn't mean to be unhelpful. i just think it's better for the children (and probably the parents) if you CAN work things out. he is from an abusive home and usually that creates a pattern of behaviour which is repeated. he has to break that pattern. it doesn't make him a bad person, he's just behaving badly, if you see what i mean. actually i think angry 'he's a bastard' style advice is pretty unhelpful too. usuallyfoundinkitchen - you sound like a lovely mum who needs proper help. it must be extra hard when you're pregnant. haven't you got a close friend or mother/sister who can help and advise you? i agree with yellowcircle - try to get the children out the way and have a heart to heart, but in a gentle, positive and non-confrontational way to avoid it turning into a row. if you position it as 'we have so much going for us, our children, our past etc - i can't bear to see it falling apart so i need your help because we are in danger of hating each other' sort of way perhaps?

I agree, GG, that if you can work it out, that is great

but we don't know what happens in oher peoples houses, so I feel you should be wary of planting or reinforcing damaging ideas like "your children will never have a happy home (if you split)..."

there is more than one way to have a happy home for children...and it doesn't always include their birth parents living together within it

Hi,
Gave birth to a happy healthy girl just over 5 weeks ago. He is very taken with her but does like to remind me that he never wanted any of this whenever she crys or moans. I am not into being here anymore so I have no idea what to do. I love my kids but not him. So I have a lot to figure out.

Congratulations on the new baby :0).

Can you and your partner agree to live together but not BE together for the sake of the kids?

That way you can both move on. As he's treating you like the babysitter anyway it should't be too much of a change for him and for you it leavese you open to meeting new people, getting out of the house and having him babysit and not being worse off?

congratulations on the birth of your daughter xx. What an emotional rollercaoster you must be on! Take time for yourself if you can so you can figure out what you really want as with so much going off it must be hard to really think what you need and want. xx

Congratulations on the birth of your daughter.

Have you told your DH you are planning to leave unless he changes?

Congratulations on your new little girl!

I'm relieved to hear you've now clarified your ideas enough, that she won't be growing up in a war-zone home ... you deserve congratulations on that too!

You sound like a fantastic Mum and a very responsible adult. You're right, your priorities just now are your baby and your own health. The more you can get DH out of your hair - and out of your way - for now, the better. I'd advise sleeping separately and doing a lot of "yes dear" ... but only for the next few months!

Whenever you find a few spare moments, and/or can get some help, start putting together all your facts & figures, register for a replcement home and so on. Don't forget to grab some "me" time, too!

Good luck