DH always criticises my friends....

[backtolife]

Should I be worried? I have realised that DH can be quite a manipulative person. He has admitted it himself in relation to his family and friend. But I think he also tries to manipulate me but he himself is not necessarily aware of what he is doing.

I have become very conscious recently that he seems to have something critical to say about all of my friends. I have I suppose quite a 'mixed bag' of various different friends, some of whom I suppose, at first glance, may seem to be fairly 'odd' or 'eccentric' people.

DH seems to judge these people at a very superficial level, he doesn't know them like I do and cannot see the qualities in them that I see and like, hence the reason we are friends.

I am increasingly beginning to feel that DH is subtly trying to undermine me and is being disrespectful towards me, by criticising my friends.

Should I be concerned about this trait in DH or am I overanalysing or overthinking the whole thing?

His comments don't affect my friendships as such ie I don't end or distance myself from friends just because DH thinks they are weird or odd or whatever. But it's not very nice living with somebody who criticises the other people in my life.

I think he doesn't want you to have any friends.

He's jealous of them and feels threatened. I bet he doesnt have any friends of his own. He's making life difficult for you in the hope that you'll stop seeing them. He's being hugely manipulative, there's nothing subtle about his behaviour at all.

"I am increasingly beginning to feel that DH is subtly trying to undermine me and is being disrespectful towards me, by criticising my friends."

I think this is right. It's not a good sign.

i hate to say it, but i'd be careful to nip that in the bud. Tell him that if he has nothing but a spiteful remark to make about your friends then to button it. It is, in the long term, very demoralising to have your husband or partner bitching about your friends. My x had a nasty name for all of mine, chairwoman, sargeant lesbian, backpacker, the sluttty one. Always really, really, really spiteful, but built on a tiny tiny grain of truth so that if he'd ever said it in front of one of my friends i was have died of embarrassment.

It's also worrying because quite apart form trying to isolate you from your friends, it shows that he sees the worst in people before he sees the best in them. maybe there is nothing bad in them and yet he trumps it up out of nowhere.

tell him it's completely unacceptable and intolerable. But tbh, i'd be wary of other controlling traits.

If you find yourself constantly reasoning with him to get him to see your pov, stop reasoning and just do what you need to do or have to do.. You don't need his approval. It's nice to have the approval of a loving supportive husband, but don't fall into the trap of trying to "win" the approval of a control freak.

Good luck with it all.

I agree with Maggie.

Don't tolerte it form him. Next time he does it tell him directly that regardless of what he may think of your friends, you are not interested in hearing those thoughts and you find it disrespectful.

I tihnk he is emotionally manipulative, and like most emotionally manipulative people, he does it without realising it.

Thank you for all your replies. Sorry I disappeared for a while.

MrsMargate, I hope you're not right.

Trifle, he does have 'friends' of his own but I find his friendships a bit weird tbh. He only seems to be friends with people to whom he can feel superior to or people that look up to him and almost idolise him. He doesn't seem to have many or even any friends who are his equal.

Brahms, thank you, I think you are right.

Maggie and overmy, I agree with you both. I have decided I will say something next time he says something negative or derogatory about any of my friends.

I have not let him control my behaviour in that I still keep seeing my friends but I think I need to go a step further and let it be known that his comments are unacceptable.

I'm sure he has learnt this behaviour from his mother who is a nasty piece of work. Luckily I have nothing to do with her these days.

Thank you all for your responses. I knew I had pinpointed something that was not right in our relationship, I guess I just needed some validation from other people.

I hear a lot of my old self in you. So I apologise in advance if I'm speaking out of turn here, but please read this anyway.

I thought I had my eyes wide open too. I sensed quite early on tbh that my x wasn't as laid back or as reasonable as I would have liked him to be, and that he didn't like my friends, or socialising.... BUT, I thought I could handle it, because I was smart, good with people, and I had faith in the power of my own ability to reason with people..

Like me, you're going in to this with your eyes wide open it seems.

And I can understand that right now, the good probably still outweighs the bad..... Would it be harder right now to face the world as a single woman? (than it is to present an appropriately conventional front shield and deal with the strife behind closed doors and on your own terms). It can seem like you're in control that way. I know I sacrificed my happiness at the alter of convention, and because I walked into it an intelligent woman, I thought I was in control and that I would continue to manage things to a tolerable level, by reasoning, pleading, hiding some things from the outside world, learning to suppress the more sociable part of my personality...

Only when you feel like you're drowing (in your dreams, and wondering what that meant) do you realise that awareness doesn't help you, what you need is strength and emotional resources. Only then do you realise how draining the relationship has been, and how it has changed you....

I apologise if I am speaking out of turn here, and reading way too much into your posts. It's jsut that I have spent a couple of years trying to understand why I deliberately walked into a relationship with a controlling man. Because I did hear the warning bells. I just, for some reason that I'll never 100% understand, I carried on anyway.. Just please ask yourself if you lived in a World where everybody around you were single, would you bother being in this relationship?

those are very good points you make, maggie, and raises questions that everyone should ask themselves if they hear alarm bells sounding in a relationship

people should never try to deny or minimise their own gut feelings...what sometimes starts as little controlling behaviours can escalate if not challenged

and tbh, I wouldn't want a relationship where I always had to be on the lookout for subtle undermining behaviour...constantly on "high alert"

who wants to have to constantly "challenge" or pick someone up on what they say...then you end up in this crazy power-struggle type of scenario

and it can get soooo tiring you start to subtly (without realising) give in for a quiet life...

I would want to think my partner had my best interests at heart, not his own and to not have to think about it

OP, think carefully about the kind of future you may be letting yourself in for...

Anyfucker, this is the bit that I am worried about "and it can get soooo tiring you start to subtly (without realising) give in for a quiet life..." because it is getting tiring but I am not giving in, which is also tiring.

Maggie, you're right that "And I can understand that right now, the good probably still outweighs the bad....." but as time goes by the balance might change. But surely, until it does change there is still the hope of a better life in the future, and i should not call it a day now, because right now the good does outweigh the bad and it surely is not logical to end things right now until the bad outweighs the good?

Maggie, I appreciate you talking about your experience, and my situation does not seem as severe as yours as I don't feel I am sacrificing my happiness for the sake of keeping up a conventional front. I was doing that I admit but recently I have stopped biting my tongue with DH. I have been very honest and open with him about how I really feel about us and our relationship and have given him the choice to either stay on my terms or leave. So far he has chosen to stay and I have not compromised on any of my needs so I feel quite optimistic that I will be happier in the future, within our relationship, than I have been until now. But only time will tell, who knows where we'll be 10 more years down the line.

oh dear, backtolife

do you have any RL friends you could talk this over with ? your mum ?

although not always in the best position to advise you because they are not impartial, tbh

perhaps you should read some of the controlling men threads (there are lots on here...complete with useful links of websites and literature you could access, if only to put your mind at rest ?)

I am sorry you are questioning your relationship. You sound confused, and I am not surprised.

But if your radar was not significantly raised, you would not have posted this in the first place.

have a look here as a starting point, you may recognize some of the traits in your H, you may not

above all, educate yourself and don't settle for a relationship that doesn't make you happy

that isn't easy, that doesn't enhance your life

if it requires constant vigilance, time to re-evaluate

AF, god my mother would be the last person I would speak to (haven't spoken to or seen my highly toxic parents for nearly 4 years now).

Thanks for the advice, I will take a look at some of the threads on controlling men.

all the best to you x

My controlling H hated someone who was my best friend from early on.

One evening when we were having a bbq with her and another couple, the subject came up about children, being a parent etc. Unfortunately, for my H, she made a comment that maybe he should help me a bit with the kids. (They had all sussed that my H's idea was because he was the bread-winner, I would never require any help, at any time, even when I was ill/post-operative etc with our children. This was when they were both under 2. I also have an older child).

He never liked my best friend, right from the start, and when he was confronted by this comment about not giving me any support with the kids, other than financially, he immediately got up and stated 'that's it - I have had enough of this. I am going home'. He walked off and just left me there, went home on his own and locked me out. Luckily I had a key and my friends walked home with me and the kids. It was about 1.00 am).

He has, in later years, done things like delete messages my friend left on the phone for me.

Sorry to ramble on. Just an example of my experiences. Sometimes, controlling men try to sow seeds of doubt in your mind about how your friends are.

autumnlight, are you still with him? Have you talked about this issue with him?

My DH is not overtly critical or derogatory about my friends, it's more subtle and I honestly don't feel he is trying to get me to stop seeing them. I think his comments are part of an overall trait of being critical about everything (which he no doubt got from his mother).

I think he meets my friends, makes an observation about them and voices it out loud. The only thing is that he has something critical to say about all my friends and whilst I would readily admit that some of them are a bit odd (but lovely all the same), not all of them are odd.

I find it sad that he forms a superficial opinion based on meeting them a few times and writes them off as not worth bothering with by him without getting to know them a bit more. He seems to have a set idea of what people should be like and does not seem open to people's eccentricities and quirks. Again, he seems to have inherited this trait from his mother who is the classic 'judge a book by it's cover' type of person.

Yes, I am. One of the many things I have noticed about my H is - he sees everything as black and white in life. He makes up his mind about someone and, (I know this is largely due to his personality) will not give anyone the benefit of the doubt or be flexible about his opinion.

Before we married, I cheated once on my H with an ex (he was a nasty piece of work - not very good choice of men!)My H has never forgiven me, even though it was his choice to go on to marry me, and decided I was a whore from then on. He has used this, as well as a million other things, as a stick to beat me with ever since.

He makes up his mind about people superficially without even knowing them (but then he is totally superficial, anyway).

The reason I am waffling on about this though is just to make the point, however, that some men (and women) can have fixed, rigid, set ideas about people and things, and that is due to their personality and they will not see a balanced view of people and things in life.

Hopefully, your H is not this bad.

Hi autumn, perhaps my H is not as bad as yours, but they do sound very similar. My H is also very rigid and cannot seem to adapt to change (if I said something 10 years ago, he is surprised if I have now changed my mind). My DH also, of his own free will, chose to stay with me through some very bad times, but now often beats me with a stick about how hard it was for him and how much he lost out on because of me.

I actually feel sorry for him because I think he is dependant on me, even though he would never admit this, whereas I am not dependant on him and know I would be fine on my own if we should split up.

I am glad your H is not as bad as mine!

I do not feel sorry for my H (he has done numerous bad things/abuse/alcoholic over the years - I have posted on NPD thread etc).

But I wish I knew at the start what I now know. But brainwashing can be very subtle.

It is good, though, for you to find out and be informed about abusive traits etc. and the dangers of becoming 'isolated' in life.

Best wishes.

BTL: The next time he says anything unkind about your friend, just say 'I don't need to hear that. Shut up.' Remember that you don't need his permission or approval to have friends and see them whenever you want. He is not your boss or your owner.
And if his negative qualities outweigh the positive ones bin him. When a man basicaly thinks that he is your superior because he has a penis, and the relationship is all about you accomodating his wishes and obeying him, then he's unlikely to change and pursuing a relationship with him is unhealthy and pointless.

autumnlight that story is uncannily like my h from the "I've had enough of this" to locking me out and calling my friends subtle derogatory names

i also thought i could cope,with my superior social skills and sunny outlook...how utterley wrong i was..each scenario dents your confidence,makes you think he knows better until in the end something goes wrong because the person who has been keeping it all together loses confidence in themselves and their judgement.

i don't know if you have dcs but if you don't then be sure it will get worse with dcs later

i hope it works out for youx

SGB, thank you for your, as always, good advice.

Yes, our relationship was about me accomodating his wishes at the expense of my own, due to my own lack of self confidence and self esteem due in turn to my abusive childhood. I have done a lot of work on myself and have recovered and regained my self respect, self confidence and self esteem. I have been far more assertive with DH wrt my needs and to his credit he has been extremely accomodating of my needs. So now there is far more balance in our relationship.

Yes, the criticising is unpleasant and annoying. But I don't think there is anything more sinister behind it other than DH's nasty mother from whom he has learned this unattractive trait.

I will definately be pointing it out to him in future, to try and make him a bit more self aware. His criticism does not affect my behaviour, my friends remain my friends, regardless of his opinion. It's just not nice to hear him criticising people who are really nice once you get to know them.

Perhaps I have allowed him to do this because I am so used to hearing my friends being mocked and criticised by my sisters, which was the case long before I even met DH, so to me it was kind of 'normal'.

Thank you for keeping your thread updated. The kind of issue you posted is complicated - yes, this is a classic abuser tactic; yes, it is usual for an abused woman to be the independent, spirited type who believes she's in control - but life is never black-and-white. You seem confident of your independence and, as you say, this could be a simple bad habit. In which case, it should be easily fixed.

When people post "My partner hates/criticises my friends/family", I find it enlightening to see what they post next. Please read me on why!
... In a secure, happy, relaxed, mutually-respecting relationship, the matter of disliking the other's loved ones IS NOT A PROBLEM. Reading threads in other mumsnet forums, you'll often see a passing reference to such things. A partner in the process of being 'conditioned', however, picks up on this issue as one which is 'somewhat' bothering and should - as you yourself say - be easily fixed. Subsequent posts generally begin to reveal more pervasive patterns of control in the relationship.

I'm less concerned about you than I have been for other, similar OPs. You're alert, aware and you stand up for yourself. I am vastly relieved that most of your posts are about your feelings, not his. But please take another look at your statements:-

On him:
" He seems to have a set idea of what people should be like and does not seem open to people's eccentricities and quirks "
" DH can be quite a manipulative person. He has admitted it himself ... I think he also tries to manipulate me "
" He only seems to be friends with people to whom he can feel superior to "

He is rigid, intolerant, admits to being manipulative and seeks the company of those who bow to his superiority.

On your relationship:
" I am increasingly beginning to feel that DH is subtly trying to undermine me "
" DH chose to stay with me ... but now often beats me with a stick about ... how much he lost out on because of me "
" our relationship was about me accomodating his wishes at the expense of my own, due to my lack of confidence ... my abusive childhood "
" it is getting tiring but I am not giving in, which is also tiring "
" I feel sorry for him "

You have gained awareness by working through the problems of your childhood. Your knowledge leads you notice when he undermines you and blames you. You still take the blame, though - read any co-dependency page about what 'feeling sorry' for a partner means. But you're determined to 'win' this time, even though the effort tires you.

On your motivation:
" I have been more assertive with DH ... So now there is more balance in our relationship "
" until it does change [for the worse] there is still the hope of a better life "
" I feel quite optimistic that I will be happier in the future, within our relationship, than I have been until now "

Your tiring efforts have succeeded to an extent. Although you've not been very happy in your relationship for the past 10 years, you cherish the hope of being happier - in the same relationship - at future times.

Any un-fucked-up person would read that last sentence and think: "WHY, fgs??!" As a fellow fucked-up-by-family person, I think I can offer a good answer:-

Because you're trying to re-do your childhood relationships, better.

I could well be wrong (it happens a lot). Have you ever done that exercise, where you write a list of everything you gain from your marriage, which you could not have without it? And then the list of everything you could have without your marriage, but lose within it? (money, peace of mind, being able to fart when you like, friends round your house ... )

You're not walking blindly and, as I said, I'm less worried about you. But if I've given you some food for thought - all the better.

Grace, thank you for your post. You have given me food for thought which I will no doubt do over the next few days.

And your list of pros and cons about my marriage is a good idea as well. But as well as intellectual and rational reasons for staying in my marriage, ultimately the overriding deciding factor for me is my gut feeling. How I feel. How being with DH makes me feel.

And, I feel reassured because I am being far more assertive about my needs than I have been before and he has been very accomodating. I was worried a while back that he would not like me being assertive at all and would try and push me back into being the doormat that I had been before. I was worried that me might subconsciously have married me because he sensed that I was a pushover and he wanted to be with somebody he could dominate and control. But because he has a healthy sense of self esteem and self confidence my new found assertiveness did not make him feel threatened and he was easily able to accomodate my needs.

I am grateful to you Grace for taking so much time to read my posts, I appreciate it.

labyrinthine - yes. 3 DC - DS from 1st marriage and 1 DS and 1 DD from this marriage. Two years of counselling and all my own efforts to re-build my confidence in various ways are helping me alot though.

Sorry, it's me, backtolife, forgot I had namechanged!