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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

for all you ladies whose marriage has survived an affair can you come over here please i need your advice

12 replies

armbow · 09/02/2010 22:08

this is following on from another thread of mine.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/907237-What-would-you-do

there was no affair he had strong feelings for ow but he only saw her around once a month in a work capacity and he never communicated his feelings towards her. he now knows that his fantasy was as a result of the excitement of new love etc. we have lost this as a couple and we want to get the passion back

we both think he should move back in and he should stay in the spare room and effectively date and get to know each other again. not easy with 2 dcs !!!

we are off to relate

had a long chat tonight and i believe we love each other very much and want to come through this stronger and happier

but he is terrified of what happened and it scared him it has made him question his morals.

for those of you who have had affairs or infatuations - did you hate yourself afterwards, what can i do to help?

for those of you would were hurt by something similar how did you move forwards?

thanks

OP posts:
EcoMouse · 10/02/2010 02:55

In answer to your second question, I moved forward singly, just to forewarn that I'm not coming from your requested perspective

In answer to your first, self loathing is very common on the part of the P who strayed. This is a natural part of the process of guilt and regret. I don't think you need to 'help' as such, your H needs to experience this. It is what will help him to define his morals from this point forward (they can be transient after all). In this light, it's a 'good' thing that he feels bad.

However, it might be worth pointing out to him that the fact he feels this bad for what was in effect a fantasy, would imply that he does have reasonable morals, he didn't cross the line of 'no going back'.

To make clear, by using the term 'fantasy' I'm in no way seeking to belittle your experience of what he has done, just trying to differentiate between a crush and a full blown reciprocal affair.

armbow · 10/02/2010 08:14

don't worry eco I totally understand, I am very gald that it went no further than infatuation and did not go to the point of no return as you said.

I suppose I want to benefit from others experience as I have no clue about what to do.

I think in some way he feels that he has already crossed some line that he thought he would never cross and this has scared him. He is frightened that he has become "that man" and worries that if he has come this far once what if it happens again and he can't stop it next time. This troubles me a bit TBH surely it is once bitten twice shy?

OP posts:
EcoMouse · 10/02/2010 09:40

It's incredibly hard to know what to do, I know. You've mentioned 'dating' each other again and taking things from there and in the context of your other thread, this plus counselling sound ideal.

There's only so much you can do for him if he's struggling internally. He does have to find his own answers and conclusions, they need to come from within.

You need to concentrate on you! From my perspective, I had to accept that there were aspects of my x's thought processes and behaviour which would always be outside of the reach of my comprehension. Obviously I had a general understanding of what happened but there was a point when I had to stop bleating the useless 'why'.

Hmm, off on a tangent! Sorry.

He still has the benefit of choice. He can choose to be 'that man' he can choose not to be 'that man', it is not outside of his control. Either way, it has to be an autonomous decision because loyalty can't be forced or created by any outside influence or person, IYSWIM?

I'm sure others will be along with more input

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 10/02/2010 09:58

armbow, I'm happy to help with this - and have been lurking on your other thread. However, in order to move on and make progress, you both need total honesty about what happened and why. Are you convinced it is as he described - a crush that was not expressed, even to her? His reaction to all this seems a little disproportionate, you see.

What further concerns me is that this has been going on for a year and he has only recently admitted to you that he has been hiding feelings for someone else for a long time - it's become a well-established pattern of secrecy and deceit.

Telling you that this woman doesn't even know how he feels, effectively prevents you from asking her, so have you been trying to verify what he's saying in other ways? Have you snooped at all?

Some of the behaviours you described in your original post are more often associated with an affair that has well and truly taken hold; disproportionate anger and irritation with loved ones, an appearance of turmoil etc.

He might be right that his behaviour is rooted in childhood, but that doesn't preclude having an affair.

What is your gut instinct telling you about this?

ReneRusso · 10/02/2010 11:44

Hi armbow, my marriage has got through crushes/infatuations and affairs (on both sides actually - oops)

I think to move forwards, the most important thing is for both of you to accept some responsibility. Generally I think unless someone is a serial cheater and incapable of committment, then an infatuation or an affair will only happen if there are some needs not being met within the relationship.

I know lots of regulars on mumsnet relationships threads will disagree with my more forgiving approach. I'm thinking of the poster who said "Depression? More like selfish cunt" which made me laugh on your other thread. But my marriage has survived, and this is my honest opinion.

My DH had an affair and I had to accept that he was not happy, that there was a lot of resentment from me about all his travelling for work reasons and not being around for me and the DCs. I was no longer appreciating him and because he was away so much he began to feel superfluous. I had to accept that I had to an extent frozen him out and contributed to him feeling unwanted. Of course he had to accept blame as well for getting involved with OW. I believe that a bit of understanding of the context of the affair, and why your partner felt the need for another life (in this case another life dreamt up in your DH's head), can help you move forward. The relate counselling will help with this, exploring the underlying context and what needs you both have that are not being met.

As for guilt, if you start to understand the reasons, then the guilt fades too. Although infatuations are dangerous, I think a real affair is far more damaging, so if your DH really didn't get involved, then he shouldn't get too bogged down about feeling guilty, he has done a lot better than many men.

It is important that he totally comes clean with you though, are you sure you know the whole story?

I think a lot of men struggle with the restrictions of family life where as the transition is more seamless for women. He is probably deep down a bit fed up about no longer being your top priority. I don't know what the answer is to this really, but I think it is quite normal.

I agree he should move back in, and keep up with the counselling, keep talking. Hope things work out for you.

armbow · 10/02/2010 14:52

thank you for your responses - I am at work at the moment so have not got time to answer all questions I will do this later.

however with regards to knowing the whole story, which one or two of you have brought up. I am scared of snooping because of two things 1) of what I might find 2) it means that there is distrust on my part.
all i know is that she is no longer on his facebook list of friends.

This is what he has told me:

we had a rocky patch last year after dc2 was born nothing serious (or so I thought) he was bored (thought we had to get out and do more). what i now know is he had been feeling feelings for OW and last year when he had his wobble it was when he had made the decision to put her out of his mind. he started to avoid her (she was part of a larger group of friends who we socialised with through work). this worked for a few months until he bumped into her one day in the office and he said the feelings came back. the feelings were never expressed as he says he is not heartless enough to wreck 2 marriages (she is also married) he battled with the unexpressed feelings and told no one. it was not until he came clean to me and heard himself saying it aloud taht he realised that it was not love for her as such but a longing for a life as a couple again. does that make sense? it does to me. he has no one really he could have talked this through with you see and kept in bottled up for months, now he is talking it through with me he says that he is seeing clearly.

from what i have read on here i told him that it seemed to me that last time him repressing his feelings and not dealing with the issues first time round caused them to resurface, as in he had not let it run its course IFYSWIM.

with regards to his past there is a history of secret affairs that run through his family and i think he thinks he is going down taht roa and wants help. he does not wnat to come back and for us to go through this again he wants to be sure that he has fixed the thing that mad eit happen in the first place.

gosh that was longer than expected. !!

i hope i am not being naive, i am trying to think straight and clearly and make the right decision. I am quite a perceptive person and when i look him in the eye and he tells me this i do believe him.

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 10/02/2010 17:44

The problem with this armbow, is that your default position is to trust someone you love this much. Your default position is also not to snoop, because perhaps it's something you've never done before and it feels wrong to you, being a decent person. I understand all of that very well indeed. What many of us have learned through bitter experience is that this default position was abused by the person we trusted most - many of us here too would have described ourselves as hugely perceptive - even with people we didn't know well.

I often wonder why, when I had suspicions, I didn't try to verify my gut instinct. It really isn't like me to avoid a confrontation, but my H was so convincing in his denials and had such a plausible explanation for his behaviour, that I was able to put doubts about fidelity out of my mind. This, allied to the trust default, meant that I was unsighted for a further 6 weeks or so. My accidental discovery was therefore an enormous shock and our recovery was greatly hampered by his earlier denial.

You say you are frightened of what you will find, but for me now, my biggest fear would be making decisions without all the information to hand. You cannot forgive until you know all there is to forgive - any recovery will be built on sand. Perhaps you feel this will be easier to recover from if no actual infidelity has taken place, but if he is lying about that, any future relationship is never going to reach its potential if one of you is holding a secret.

It must seem even more difficult to you because on the face of it, he appears to be doing the honourable thing, coming to you (a year too late, in my view) with his concerns about his attraction to someone else. It puzzles me greatly however that he is so troubled by what amounts to a crush, that he wants to leave and sort his head out, instead of working things out with you as a couple. This is what's making me sceptical that you are being told the whole truth.

You might remember another thread around Xmas time, when an H seemed to have disproportionate remorse for having had a drink with a female colleague, making over-the-top protestations to that colleague that "This Can Never Happen Again". Several of us queried a reaction that seemed disproportionate to the incident - and of course it turned out that contrary to what he was saying, something did indeed happen with that colleague.

What's your bottom line armbow? If it turns out he was unfaithful - and regrets it - would you be willing to attempt forgiveness? If you'd rather not know, but want to save the marriage, then accept what he says and try to build a new marriage.

If you really do want to know though, in your shoes, I would be trying to verify what I was being told, but I would also say to him that you are willing to work with him on saving your marriage, but can only do so from the position of total honesty. If it transpires later that infidelity did take place, that marriage will be rocked again and further damaged by his earlier denials.

armbow · 10/02/2010 22:17

what can i do then do you think about verifing what he is saying?

he is staying away so there is no mobile etc for me to check/he has his laptop/iphone etc.

i have just gone upstairs to do a fruitless search of his wardrobe - found nothing though.

I have to admit that throughout this year I have had sneaky peaks at email accounts/facebook pages and mobile phones and nothing was turned up. i did this because his behaviour has been off and i have remained insecure since his last wobble.

all i keep hearing him saying is that he does not want to come back to me until until he is certain that this will not be repeated in the future. he has told me that he dreads to think about what would have happened if she were single and had showed an interest in him, i think he is pretty sure he would have acted on his crush. and this to him means that if we hit a rocky patch again will it mean that if a single woman presented herself to him would he stray properly this time. does this answer the too much guilt question? - i don't know i can't see the wood for the trees right now.

OP posts:
armbow · 10/02/2010 23:04

i have jsut managed to log onto his email account from my laptop - checked all sent and received and deleted messages - oh and drafts (wanted to be thorough!!) and found nothing at all suspicious.

my heart was thumping like a good 'un though and I had to really summon up all the bravery i could muster to convince myself to do it.

i actually have a headache now - seriously !!

what else can i do but take him at his word.

arrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

this is very very very hard, will i always be looking over my shoulder? i want things to be ok but i don't want to be deluded. just as he does not want to be " that man" I don't want to be "that woman" that puts up with years of shit from her dh.

whenwilli - you say follow my instinct - i can't find it tbh honest amoungst all the crap that is surrounding it. i think i know what my gut is telling me and that is in actual fact that everything will be fine and we will emerge stronger and happier and that his episode was a warning sign of what could happen if we did not concentrate on each other as a couple. BUT i don't want to allow myself to believe this in case it is just naive delusion.

FFS !!!

OP posts:
glucose · 10/02/2010 23:16

stop looking for stuff, it's too tiring and will wear you down
even if you find evidence do you really want to act on it?

armbow · 11/02/2010 08:18

if i still find further info i think I would like to try and forgive him.

but i want him to fight for me and our marriage.

his individual counselling starts today.

scared to death for some reason.

OP posts:
gonnabehappy · 11/02/2010 08:58

Ok, I believed my husband when told a pack of lies...but I do still believe that some men are honourable enough to feel dreadful about an emotional affair and may be honest.

You are doing al the right things, going out etc...what I would add is that YOU are NOT responsible for how he feels. I utterly understand your desire to understand and help him when he is clearly so troubled but only he can do that.

I am appalling at practising what I preach so please take this with a dose of salt if required but I honestly think he needs to sort himself out. Yes, you can both do things to improve your relationship and you can be kind and supportive but he needs to work out how he feels, how he felt and what he wants to do.

Oh my heart goes out to you though - I am hopeless at this kind of detachment and am only learning now, a year or more down the line, that detaching and stopping feeling responsible can be a loving and indeed respectful stance

Hope counselling goes well. I have met some crap counsellors along the way so do change if it does not 'feel' right.

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