Godparents

[Carriel]

Hi there - another Simon Mayo topic for a week next Tues (for those not in the know Justine and me have been going on as parenting pundit types (?!!)- refelecting the mumsnet members' views on his R5 show). Anyways they want to talk about godparents - did you chose to have them for your kids - whether you're religious or not? Do other religions/cultures apart from Christianity have the same sort of thing? What function do you think they now serve. Are you a godparent - and how seriously do you take it - anyone know where whole idea came from in first place? were you close to your godparents.... anything along those lines most welcome.

Thanks as ever

Carriel, the godparents thing is a really uncomfortable topic. The service explicitly talks about bringing them up in the C of E, but my closest friend is RC so I couldn't ask her. I can see that it's a church thing, so perhaps we expect too much of the whole godparents idea, but I wish it was more secular to reflect the multi cultural state of Britain today.

As practising members of the Church of England we took our son's baptism seriously and chose godparents who were also committed, if not regularly practising, Christians. This caused a bit of chuntering in my husband's family as they can't understand what we get from going to church and expected my atheist sister-in-law to be chosen. She is a much-loved and treasured aunt but if she stood up in church and promised to give Christian guidance to our son, it would be meaningless and place an unfair burden on her.
Our son's godparents are close friends and in each case we are godparents to one of their children. We expect that the children will grow up knowing each other as well as distances of 100 and 600 miles away allow! We expect to act in loco parentis for our godsons whenever it is required and know that their parents would return the service. But mainly we expect to love them as if they were our own, which is not proving at all difficult. Unconditional love is certainly not the exclusive property of any faith, and my feeling about the role of "godparenting" is that it is a label, used in the context of Christianity, to sum up "the positive influence of caring adults other than parents in a child's life".
I am still in touch with one of my godmothers, who is an old friend of my parents. I can't say that she has been an explicitly spiritual force in my life, but she has always been very fond of me, and I of her.
I was sorry to hear of SML's experience. I'm almost sure that any practising Christian is encouraged to be a godparent at our church and that Roman Catholics are definitely not excluded. One of ours is Greek Orthodox and another Unitarian by upbringing...

I'm a catholic. I was never very close to my godparents, I can't even think who they are now. But I am Godmother to two boys, one from a friend and one from my sister. I try to attend the major events at Church for them, such as First Communion and Confirmation. I try to take an interest in what they are doing and encourage them in any religious activies, such as being altar boys, joining the cubs, etc.

When I had my daughter, I went to the priest for advice on choosing Godparents. I was told that as long as one of her Godparents is a practising Catholic, it doesn't matter if the other(s) is from a different religion. However, they do have to believe in God. They are there to give spiritual guidance to that child, and if anything happens to either of us, they ensure that our child receives a religious upbringing.

Me and dh picked two close friends, both practising Catholics. Her Godfather takes the whole thing very seriously and tries to see her as often as he can. I know he will be there when she makes her Sacraments, even though he lives miles away. My other friend keeps in constant contact too, and I feel that she is a wonderful role model as she has kept true to her religion against all odds.

I would be interested to know how it all started though.

Carriel, this is an interesting topic. We are atheists and would never have our children christened. Whilst I know of people who are religious and have their children christened (which I obviously have no problem with), I also know of many people who are not religious but have weddings in churches and have their children christened. Only last week a colleague of my partners asked if we were getting our baby christened (she is having her baby christened, although she is not religious herself). My partner replied that he'd find christening our son rather hypocritical and apparantly the silence was deafening!

However, we felt that we wanted to both celebrate our children's presence in the world and provide them with appropriate guardians. We knew the people we wanted to ask and all have been delighted to be asked to be actively involved in our children's upbringing. All take their responsibilities very seriously. Having done this we rest assurred that our children have other people to rely on and be guided by whilst my partner and I are alive as well as in the circumstances of our premature deaths.

I forgot to say that bizarrely although my parents and extended family aren't religious when I was ten I became a Godparent to my newborn cousin! I had no say in the matter,I had no idea of what Godparenting involved and basically I was told it was a nice thing to do rather like being a bridesmaid!! Due to marital breakdown I have not seen this 'godchild' since I was in my teens and in adulthood have felt deeply disturbed with the whole thing. I have no idea where this person, now in her early twenties, is and as I am not religious I certainly am not in a position to guide her on that subject but I would have liked the opportunity to be there for her and guide her in other ways. As an adult I would refuse the role of a Godparent however flattered I'd be to be asked. Does anyone else think that making children godparents is slightly bizarre?

Yes, Winnie, I would never choose a very young person to be a godparent, mainly because in all sorts of ways they are still finding their way in the world themselves.
I think your god-daughter, wherever she might be, lost out in a big way. You always give such wise and helpful advice on mumsnet! (Wouldn't it be weird and wonderful if she was a member too...)

Goodness, I am feeling very guilty.I have never really considered giving my sons godparents, despite the fact we have hardly any family.

I am a godparent but I have totally lost touch with my godson. I have only seen him twice as a baby and have even forgotten his name. I was asked to be a godparent when I was about 20. My friend was the first of our group to have children. She chose my then boyfriend and I mostly because she met her husband through us. It was a social nicety. I was a sometime church goer,a Bapist, but it was a second 'baptism' in your teens, not christening and godparents that had importance. So I was pretty ignorant about my duties.

A year later I had parted company with my boyfriend, and my friend and I were living in different cities. We swapped christmas cards and letters,but our lives were so different that we just lost touch. At the time, single, no children etc I hardly gave it a second thought.

Now I can more easily appreciate the role godparents can play. Our children aren't christened (though we are considering the possibilty), so they have no godparents. If I were to choose godparents I would pick adults who had already shown some interest in my sons. I would try to see the person from my sons point of view rather than mine. Some of my best friends, very good people, are just not very interested in children. I would also choose people who are likely to stick around. I don't think I would be materialistic or calculating in my choice of godparents though it would be tempting to give my children potential access to more monied or well-connected adults than us!

I would not expect godparents to provide spiritual guidance - they could be athiests for all I am concerned. I would not expect them to take on any parenting responsibilities in my absence. If you choose godparents when your child is a baby, you have no idea what sort of personality your baby will have, or how they will interact with the people you have chosen as their godparents. To me the 'parent' bit is symbolic unless a firm relationship builds over time.

I would hope, however that the godparents could provide some moral guidance if called on. But most importantly I hope they would be willing and able to befriend my sons.

Just a thought. Do you have to choose godparents when you child is a baby? what about waiting till they have some 'favourite adults' and you can make a more informed choice? I know little about the church implications of this.

The only major argument I ever had with a good friend was, who was going to be my kids guardian(s). She couldn't see why I didn't want her (as she put it!) It was a very hard decision, but I instictively chose a very close friend who I had been to College with, and since I no longer see the first friend as the result of both our husbands falling out big time (thanks guys!)I'm actually very glad I made that decision. I had a friend who chose a childless couple to be her children's guardians and when later through IVF they had children she began to get seriously worried about dying since the couple brought their children up almost diametrically oposite to the way my friend does!!! Happily arrangements were changed quite amicably! My children aren't christened either, I'm making a last stand against MIL who wants a big affair and me who wants to go to my small village church, poor husband in the middle not liking it much!!

This is very interesting reading. I belong to a Baptist church, which does not baptise babies, believing this to be for children/adults who can make their own conscious decision to follow Christ, but do dedicate babies. Our son was dedicated when he was a year old and it's basically thanking God for the safe arrival of your child and praying God will keep the child in His care. There are usually two close friends of the parents as witnesses who pray for the child also.
We are Godparents to my husband's brother's eldest child. We were in two minds whether to accept their invitation as they are not churchgoers, and didn't even marry in a church, so it seemed rather hypocritical of them, but agreed as we felt a duty as Christians to love and nurture this child and share with him our beliefs if he were ever to show an interest (not to force our beliefs onto him I should add).
I do agree with Marina's point about "the positive influence of caring adults other than parents in a child's life" - ie non-believers shouldn't feel left out by not having Godparents for their children and having "guardians" that their children could go to for advice etc. is a good idea.
I've heard there is something called a "Naming Day Celebration" which is a non-religous alternative to christenings, but I don't know any details about it.

My daughter has six 'godparents'. My two brothers and a close male friend and three close female friends. My daughter's father is Jewish and two of the godparents are also Jewish (although none of them are very religious). The rest are a mixture of Catholic, C of E and just, well, non-specific. I picked people who I thought had something important to offer in terms of wisdom and who in some way reflected different aspects of our lives.
We had a naming ceremony which was a large, very happy and all inclusive event. And tomorrow she will be christened, mainly to keep the Catholic amongst us happy. It will a much smaller happening. Godparents are people who I want to have a highlighted role in her life. Who take it upon themselves to get to know her and keep tabs in their own special ways. All children need special adults, other than their parents, to relate to and I hope these six will provide her with love and lots of food for thought!

The thing is, I've not yet heard anyone say that they had their children christened because they wanted them brought up in that particular faith. I don't know about any other religion, but when we got our daughter baptised in a Catholic church, we went to an obligatory meeting with the priest. We discussed our reasons for having her baptised and what we wanted the Church to do for her.

I think that Tigermoth's point is a good one, that choosing godparents needn't be when the child is a baby. Some parents leave it until the child is able to participate more fully and choose whether they want to be baptised or not. I don't think any church has anything against this, the practise of baptising as babies was mainly due to the fact that there used to be many more infant deaths than there are now.

We had to promise to bring our bd up in the faith, to set an example and offer spiritual guidance to her. Our chosen godparents had to do likewise. I don't see them as people who will bring her up if anything nasty happens to us, just people who will ensure that she is brought up within the faith that we hold. Sorry, but I think it's a bit hypocritical to have your child christened just because of the ceremony, that's why 'naming ceremonies' are there.

It's a bit like people getting married in a church because 'it's nice' and nothing to do with the religion aspect. I had 2 friends who did just that, they've not been to church since. Why bother if you don't believe?

Sorry if I've offended anyone, it just riles me a little!

Lisav, where have not heard anyone say that they had their children christened or baptised because of their faith? If you mean on this thread I think several people have made explicit their religious reasons for having their children christened,baptised or dedicated.

Marina, thank you for your kind words. And yes, it would be very strange and wonderful if my 'god daughter' were here on Mumsnet too!

Although both DH and I are vehmenent atheists, we have chosen godparents for our child. I am slightly uneasy with the term 'godparent' as I like to think of them more as moral guardians.

In my case, I come from a large catholic family and the idea of some other adult who has a hand in the upbringing of a child seems entirely natural. We have chosen friends who's morality and political beliefs is similar to our own. We like to think that in the case of our death's, our child will someone to speak for the kind of moral upbring that we would have given it. As many of my family practise the type of religion I feel uncomfortable with, I think this role is especially important.

Like Jodee, dh and I are members of a Baptist church and had our ds dedicated when he was about 4 months old. As a ceremony it was v simple but v profound and provided us with a moment to thank God for the birth of our child and to acknowledge the fact that we would need guidance and support and prayer in raising him. I would have loved to have had godparents for him - they are not a part of our Baptist tradition but I see no reason why not. I would have liked to have had 2 or 3 close friends be recognised as having a deeper involvement in his upbringing than the more general promise of the congregation to welcome and love him as one of their own. However, PILs are from NI and see this is a very Catholic tradition and would not have entertained it; it wasn't worth the trauma of mentioning it and the consequwnt arguments to make it happen but I still wish that he did have godparents. Our church would have had no problem with it.

Hopw this isn't too late..

We wrote a naming ceremony for our daughter based on the Humanist one and chose 4 'godparents'. We debated calling them something else but 'special friend' etc sounded trite. We hope that her godparents will provide support to us in our parenting and that she will develop good relationships with them to enable her to lean on them for support when she is older. There are times in all of our lives when we need the support of adults who we trust and love but who are not our parents.

I have just been asked by a friend to be a Godparent to her newborn. Although very flattered, I am slightly uneasy with the term, as I don't attend church (although was christened Catholic). Can anyone give me any advice on what my duties should be and what to expect at the ceremony. Also is there any legal duties I will perform as a Godparent? ie does it make me their guardian, should anything happen to the children? My friend has siblings who she is close to.

Bon, as far as I am aware there are absolutely no legally binding obligations to being a godparent, unless the parents also ask you to be legal guardians. That's a separate issue usually dealt with in a will.
In the C of E, there should be no problem with you being RC, but parish priests exercise considerable discretion over the preparations they make for a baptism. You might have quite a probing chat with the minister who will be baptising the baby, they might just do the basic check that you were baptised yourself.
I would say - are your friends practising Christians? In other words, are THEY aware of what they are asking you to promise? You will be publicly affirming the basic tenets of Christianity and promising to help the child grow up with an awareness of the Christian faith. This is a wonderful responsibility if you are comfortable with it (and don't be put off by the fact that you are not currently a regular churchgoer), but not if you are uneasy. Take a look at the Order of Service for Baptism on this website, but please contact the parish priest to get further guidance. They should welcome your enquiries and reassure you. Church of England Baptism Service

Carriel,
We are non-religious but but it was very inportant to us to appoint Godparents/mentors or whatever you want to call them to oue ds. After much reserch we had a naming ceromony at the Unitarian Church. Ds's GP were chosen with him in mind as being people we felt would be there for him and would take the job seriously. I have been very aware that friends and family of mine have choosen GP to flatter their friends ect at being asked. We were determined not to do this and we put lot's of thought into ds's GP. We chose 4 people who have intergrity, kindness, honesty a keen ear and a strong work ethic and would promise always to be around for ds.

Both my husband and I are (non-vociferous) atheists. However I think that the concept of "godparents" is lovely: both as a recognition and thank you to close friends who have supported you through those difficult first months and to create a special bond between them and your child. We had a party to celebrate dd's birth, announced the godparents in a speech and said (briefly) what we hoped they would do for dd.

We did use the term "godparent" as, like others here, I thought that "sponsor" and "special friend" sounded trite and "guardian" has particular legal connotations. Like "goodbye" ("God be with you", I think "godparent" has entered the English language generally without specifically religious connotations.

I am godmother to the daughters of 2 close friends, one Catholic, one CofE. Both friends knew that I wouldn't be taking their daughters down to church every Sunday, but wanted me to provide secular friendship and guidance. I did feel uncomfortable in the ceremonies. The CofE ceremony in particular involves declaring your belief in God, Jesus and the Church. I might even have thought twice if I'd known in advance what I would have to say. But, on balance, I think that as long as the parents knew my beliefs and still wanted me to be a godmother, that was the important thing.

I do feel a closer bond to my godchildren, not just because they are the children of my best friends. I feel as if I have a direct relationship with them, despite the fact that they are both under 2, and not just through their parents.

I hope that in no way I am offensive in saying this, but I find it very bizzare that people should ask athiests to be 'godparents' in a religious ceremony, or that athiests would want to be involved inmaking explicitly Christian promises.
Why (this is a genuine question) do people with no church connection or firm beleif choose to have a baptism service for their children. Is it like getting married in church, just 'something you do'? If you look at the baptism service it is nothing to do with naming, an very little to do with thanksgiving, it is a promise to bring your children up in the Christian faith, and to teach them by taking them to church and by the example of your own life what it is to be a Christian. The pouring out of the water is a symbol of acceptance into the church.
As Christians we have chosen not to have our children baptised as we know that we would rather it was a decision they should make for themselves (there is a complicated theological debate about infant baptism that has been going on for, oh, about 2000 yrs!!!), but we have asked my dh's brother and his wife to be 'godparents' as they are also Christians and they have taken this responsibility very seriously. They are also guardians, as we would like to thing our children would be brought up in a Christian home if anything happened to us.
We go to church regularly abd children are often baptised, then to disappear and never be seen again until confirmation, and then marriage (we are members of th Scottish Episcopal Church, the Anglican church in Scotland). My question is - WHAT IS THE POINT? We, as a church, make a big effort to keep in touch with families who have come for baptism, but it seems all they want is a nice day ina nice wee attractive church, some good photos and a chance to dress up.
Sorry, this gets under my collar a bit. Mailly I think because I just don't understand it. So I'd be greatful if people could share their reasons/experiences?

susanmt - I do agree with your comments & in fact asked my vicar why so many obviously 'non-religious' people were allowed to christen their children when they clearly had no intention of ever taking them to Church. Apparently there is a legal requirement to christen & offer a funeral service to anyone living in a parish (but not marriage which is why some vicars, rightly in my opinion, refuse to marry people in church when they clearly only want it for the 'show'

However, I am aware that my comments may appear as 'unchristian', perhaps some people having a christening ceremony do intend to bring their children up within the Church, although I doubt this is true in all cases, I recently attended a christening where the vicar actually said 'don't worry, there are no hymns or sermons to bore you with here' - & clearly this family never take their children to Church, even on Christmas Day.

I had had a bit of a dilema myself recently, our DS will be christened this year &, having made a conscious decision to chose 'young' godparents (ie: late 20s/early 30s) as DH & I are mid 40s, have no church going female friend to ask to be Godmother, in the end I talked to the vicar and, as I have no wish to ask anyone to lie, it was agreed that the friend we would choose, would be known as a 'sponsor' & not have to make the vows.

A relative of mine caused great offence by (politely) turning down a request to be a Godmother, precisely because she didn't have any religious beliefs, I admire her for being so honest.

Sorry this is a bit of a rant - pet subject!

Jodee, we also had our son dedicated instead of baptised when he was about 3 months old, for the same reasons as the Baptist church. My dh's family were quite horrified that we didn't have him christened, and yet not one of his family ever go to church. They don't even go at Christmas or Easter and never have, so we thought it was a bit hypocritical that they were so concerned about our ds not being christened! I also don't want to ruffle any feathers here as I know this can be a 'delicate' subject, but I don't agree with baptising a child if that child is never going to be taught anything at all about Christianity and probably never going to step foot into a church again. From what I've seen among my dh's family, none of the godparents have much to do with the children after the christening ceremony, and none of them belong to any kind of religion or faith at all.

I'm R.C. but dh is an atheist, we were married in a registry office but with dispensation so I can still take communion etc. Although I was relieved to get out of a big church wedding it was very important to me that my children be brought up as R.C. as I feel that they will be better able to make an informed decision about their faith if they have some idea of what Christianity is all about. If they decide it's a load of rubbish then fair enough. Our priest was happy to baptise the children despite dh's lack of religion as I am a church-goer, and dh made the promises as he has agreed that the kids will be brought up R.C. As far as god-parents go, each child has 2, one male, one female. DH chose one and I chose one for each child. All are R.C. (through chance) and we asked them for a variety of reasons, but none are guardians to the kids as we feel that this is too much to ask, esp as some are not "settled" at the moment.

Interestingly our priest's advice was to start with someone who would remember them at Xmas etc as otherwise there was no chance of them taking a part in the "bigger picture".

Hi Liamsmum, I agree with your last point. I never understood why my bil/sil christened their 2 but we agreed to be Godparents to the elder child as it felt like it was our duty as Christians. As far as I'm aware, the Godparents for the youngest child are family friends but aren't Christians or go to church either. They see the child fairly regularly but I wouldn't like to comment on how seriously they would carry out the Godparenting role.