Awful H, reasonably okay dad?

[NicknameTaken]

I left my H when dd was 18 months old. He was emotionally abusive to me, and verging on physically abusive. He was never directly angry at her, but tried to keep me in line by indirectly threatening her - he would clutch her to his body, not allowing me to take her, and tell me that he could do whatever he wanted to her.

He now has lots of contact with her, as per court order. She adores him and asks frequently to see him. The contact seems to be going very well (although I think he gives her far too much chocolate and sweeties to buy her affections. And he's not making any effort with the potty-training. But I accept that it's not up to me to dictate his parenting.)

So this contact is the right thing for her, isn't it? I think he may well be emotionally manipulative to her later on - "Be the way I want you to be in order for me to love you". If she gets to the stage where she actively doesn't want to see him, I will try to honour that. But right now I think she benefits. Contact with an imperfect parent is better than feeling abandoned by and/or romanticizing an absent parent, surely?

This thread is inspired by anniegetyourgun's sage words in another thread:

"Quite often an abusive partner is ever so good with the children, because they are younger and naturally look up to a parent; there is no need to put them in their place because their place is naturally in deference to him/her. It's the wife/husband, as an adult, who is a rival for power and therefore must be fought or tricked into submission. However, once the children start getting older and having their own ideas, the dynamic changes. They're not cute pets any more, they are real people who challenge the parent's absolute authority. That's when the abuse starts to spread."

It's scary because I'm afraid that this relationship could well ultimately hurt my child, but taking it away would hurt her too.

yes,there seems to be alot of truth in that.

my own ex was abusive to me....not the dc,UNTILL they became old enough to defy him and answer back,push the boundaries etc. he loved the baby stage,where people would admire them,but once in school and becoming opinionated,well,he changed. i left.

So what age was that, Tiffany? First year in primary?

and the dc want NOTHING to do with him now as his life took a bad turn and he's in trouble with authorities every five minutes. courts are of same view as me,that he should have NO access

he used to see them and take them out,but he taught the eldest how to steal. she detests him and he made the mistake of telling cafcass that it was 'only a keyring,nothing big'...

and there was allsorts of other stuff. itsn not always in kids best interests to continue with contact,but i guess the more they have the harder it will be for you to reduce it. and kids wishes and sfeelings arent really considered or listened to til they are much older. thats the problem as i see it.

age....well,we had 4 dc. he did start as soon as in primary...but more so with dd2,who is a bit more forcefull. he tried to get her to toe the line from about age 3...

God, I would hate to be in that position - I would probably do a runner to be honest. You are very mature about it which is to your great credit. You are right of course, that having a relationship with her father is better than not, for as long as he doesn't do her any harm.

At least you are aware of what he is like and how he operates - so you will be able to work to minimise any harm he can do in future by making sure that she grows up with good confidence and self esteem and redress any negative influence that he may try to exert.

Yikes. 3 is very young. Will just have to stay alert for any sign of dd being unhappy about contact (although as you say, legally it might be a battle to reduce/stop it).

Thanks, mrsboogie. I want to do the right thing by her, it's just that I wish I knew for certain what the right thing is.

Oh god, if he does upset her because you gave him free access it's going to be my fault, isn't it?

Nobody ever knows for certain what is the right thing to do. You just have to do what seems most sensible in the circumstances and keep your eyes and ears open, as you are doing. Bringing up children is full of times we have to let them go and just trust other people - contact with absent parent, childminder, school, hospital stays, sleepovers with mates, first date - we can't wrap them up in cotton wool and keep the rest of the world at bay, and it wouldn't be hhelping them to grow up if we did. At least that's my theory, but it could be because I'm the world's laziest parent...

Nickname, I find this chilling:
"he would clutch her to his body, not allowing me to take her, and tell me that he could do whatever he wanted to her."

That's a serious implied threat. Did you tell any (official) body about it?

annie's right - and you cant worry about what will be round the corner...

right now, contact is working well and your daughter is happy. so long as that continues, fine.

but - if anything changes - and the risks are higher - then be aware.

my dd 9 is bemcing mre reluctant tos ee her dad as she doesnt trust him - and he is putting pressure on them "stay with me beyond the stated time" etc. i encourage her to go...but am beginning to say "if it comes to a point where you really dont want to go then you dont have to." (quite how this iwll pan out with court order i dont know - but will coross that bridge later --i will "make her available" - but if she refuses to go, then....)

going to see her dad should be a nice part of her week - not one she gets anxious about .. . my friend also separated told me how her daughter was writing her day to day schedule for school and wrote "i like fridays best because i go to see my daddy".

that is how it should be...in an ideal world of co-parenting...

tho i totally understand my dd since he was abusive controlling etc.

My niece is 10 next week, her DB is nearly 8 and autistic. Their dad was abusive to my sister.

He refuses to give the CSA his address yet has the kids every other weekend (how can this happen?).

He told my niece just before her 9th birthday, that 'when you're 9 you can choose who you live with.'

When a statement from my niece was read out in family court that said it had made her sad when dad hit mum, he shouted at her and called her a liar. She wasn't a liar, and didn't know that what she'd told the interviewer would be told to everyone in court.

Her hair is falling out from stress yet he refuses to agree to counselling (apparently needs consent of both parents).

When my sis moved towns to be with her fiance he tried to get a prohibited steps order just to be difficult (he admitted this in court).

He won't let nuiece ring my sis when she is with him (no court order enforces this) even when she asks.

We suspect he will either take out his anger on her or, just as bad, try to turn her against our side of the family.

We have tried to tell her she doesn't have to see him if she doesn't want to. We hope she will realise this soon and refuse to go, though sis has no choice but to take her there and she does try to encourage positivity - esp as she has no choice as this arrangement is through court.

We just hope niece refuses to go sooner rather than later.

Keep a close eye.

OP, don't want to out you but if your previous posting name began with M and you had a long thread about leaving an utterly foul manipulative shitbag of an H I would be concerned about that man having unsupervised access to a child (when I read the comment about him saying he could 'do what he liked to her' I thought of this particular awful man who was fond of saying that his baby DD 'needed to learn she wasn't important').

SGB, no, I've always had the same posting name.

Annie, I won't blame you! I think you talk a lot of calm good sense.

ItsGrace, yes, the CAFCASS officer and the judge had information about that incident in writing before them when the court order was made. CAFCASS didn't seem to take it too seriously, but the local social worker who came to see me (who was lovely) told me that neither she or her colleagues had ever come across such a controlling man, and were hesitant to say what should happen about access.

It's hard because dd gave an unhappy wail when I handed her over today, which sounded quite different from the token protest she occasionally puts up at nursery. But then she quietened down as they walked away (I think he was promising her chocolate and lollipops and ice-cream, as usual).

lindy, that's horrific...That poor little girl.

Cestlavie, I think that's the best approach.

I'm glad my dd is become more verbal, and I just hope she'll be able to communicate if anything is going wrong. It's horrible, always on the lookout for damage to manifest itself...

Given what the social worker said, don't hesitate to stop access if your DD displays more signs of distress. Controlling men have a tendency to become more potentially dangerous as their DC grow older and assert their personalities. Make sure you keep a record of everything dodgy he ever does/says/emails.

Noted, thanks. He knows that I keep a record, so his latest strategy is just not to answer the phone while DD is staying with him. Worse than threats, in a way, as my imagination goes wild, but harder to make an issue of - he always has an excuse.

Anyway, watch and wait, that's all I can do....