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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Long but please help - how do I forgive?

16 replies

feelhorrid · 19/01/2010 16:33

OK husband moved back in nearly a year ago; in fact we are almost at the anniversary of the day he told me he did not want me at all and was going to live with other woman. However, she changed her mind and he moved back home (from his mothers) much to the relief of our three boys. To start with he was mourning the loss of his 'soul-mate' then he just felt overwhelming guilt at what he had put me and boys through. I think, with the help of antidepressants, I was able to give him a little space to work through this. Perhaps it is rel;event to add that it was as recently as last September that I KNOW he has lied, and that he still is conveniently unable to get into his hotmail/facebook to reassure me about content. The woman still works for the same company, but is based at a different office. His work is pretty mobile, I have no idea where he is at any time. He plays a lot of sport (two or three times a week weather dependent). I am a student, working largely from home (on a hefty scholarship so am contributing significantly to finances). My social life revolves around dog walking with a couple of close friends and the very occasional night out (last week was the first time in months and was fab!)

We have tried counselling (and I have had some alone). He does not like it, does not want to do it, and to be honest we really cannot afford it right now. I have tried to give him some concrete things that would help to make me feel loved and secure, some of these he has done. the easy ones like texting me once a day, asking me when he gets in how my day has gone, and trying to give me a hug (I will come back to that one later). The bigger things, well nothing. he has not arranged an evening out, he has not suggested we walk together when the sun shines on the snow, he has not agreed to counselling, he has not read anything I have asked him to, or that the counsellor has asked him to.

What have I done, well I am once again making a huge effort to give up smoking (three days so not bad at all!). I failed to get off the antidepressants (he sees those as a sign of weakness) but am now fairly stable on half the dose I was on. I have failed to lose weight having regained the weight I lost when all this blew up. I will never be able to be the sporty partner he would like. I fail to respond with love to his hugs and have this huge barrier that I keep in between us.

Anyway - long introduction!!!

I am scared, I don't trust him, and have not really forgiven him (he has said sorry). I can't see how I can possibly trust him unless I feel loved. He says he loves me (only when sex or tears are on the agenda), but then when he does I am sometimes utterly unable to make my self reply. I do not feel loved. I do not feel lovable. All the things he has said about not loving me, finding me unattractive, having sex with me only because he felt sorry for me, etc etc are in my head. It does not help that I can 'see' him in each room fo the house saying things, he slept in our bed when exhausted after 'tyhe best night of his life' with her in a hotel, she sat in his car - and we always used to hold hands when he drove, but now he most just wish it was not me there next to him.

Before all this we had a good marriage, an excellent sex life (unless I was knackered as a result of three kids!), and were physically very affectionate. Friends and family were very shocked when he left. On the other hand, there have been occasions when he has put his sport ahead of me, hurtful ones like carrying on with a game of cricket when I miscarried our child. I have not felt like the most important thing in his life for many years.

Last night I had another crying etc episode (now about once a week I guess). I asked him to imagine seeing the OW every day and knowing that he was not good enough for her every time. That is how I feel.

I know people will say move on and separate (don't want to, we cannot afford two homes close enough for the boys and I think I still love him), do counselling (no way that will happen). I feel so stuck and lonely. He wants to just ignore everything and go back to 'normal' how can I?

He is here. He says he will not leave, I think that is guilt speaking. I know I do not make him happy, maybe he does love me but I hate me right now.

OP posts:
WhatNoLunchBreak · 19/01/2010 17:36

Hi feelhorrid

I don't think there's anything I can suggest that is going to assist you in the way you want, because I think you're looking for the impossible. He isn't going to change; nor can you change him.

What you can do is change yourself. Focus on your life; your counselling; how to feel better without him; learn to let go of the need to have him any other way than he is (because that is the reality you seem to be facing anyway).

You stick with that ... and it's a long journey, but with so many rewards ... you will find the answers you're looking for. You will start to value yourself more. You'll find yourself again. And with that, you'll find the strength to make the decisions that, right now, you find impossible to make.

I wish you the best!

-- WNLB

MorrisZapp · 19/01/2010 18:02

Great advice.

You need to work on yourself - and you can do that on your own terms.

You can't undo what happened, all you can do is try to rebuild your sense of self completely separately from him and the relationship.

WhatNoLunchBreak · 19/01/2010 18:26

Yes, MZ ... and building a sense of self completely separately from your partner and your relationship is, I think, applicable to everyone - not just those who are struggling.

Anniegetyourgun · 20/01/2010 09:53

It is such a huge shame that you don't like yourself, when you did nothing wrong. The OW wasn't better than you (she can't have been, or she wouldn't have betrayed her husband with someone else's!), she was just different, that was the attraction; and it's so typical that the straying partner belittles the innocent one in order to justify things in their own mind.

From the way you describe things, it seems you're still seeing everything through his eyes. You're worried about your weight because he doesn't like how it looks. You want to be a sporty partner for him. You tried to get off the ADs (for the depression which his actions caused) because he disapproves of you taking them (what an arse!). You want to trust him again where he has given no reason to trust. You want to open up to his hugs, but it feels as though he's only offering because they're on his tick-list. He seems to be no more than 50% committed to the marriage even now. No wonder you are struggling.

I don't know how to make you see the world through your own eyes for a change. That you are worthwhile, your own feelings matter, you are not less worthy but simply unlucky that you have a shallow, self-serving husband. That you have children who depend on you and love you because that's what children do, you don't even have to be a good person for that to work (I realise it's been hard to be the best parent you can be with everything else going on, but I bet you try your damndest, which is all any of us can do). However you are a nice person - if you weren't, you wouldn't worry about it. Your H can't make you happy because he's not good enough, not because you aren't.

Congratulations on the smoking btw. Three days is good (four by now?) You'll feel better for it. But do it because it's a good idea for yourself, not because someone else doesn't approve. Now do something else that's just for you - I don't mean counselling - something nice; a day out shopping, an evening with mates, perhaps an exercise club with other people who are not currently at the peak of fitness so you can do something for your body without comparing it adversely to everyone else's. That one's hard. It's a state of mind really though. Been there m'self after my marriage broke up, feeling ugly next to everyone in the street, and that wasn't even about another woman. It's a huge blow to the self esteem, and I'm guessing yours wasn't terribly high to begin with. Nowadays I don't really notice what people look like, because it doesn't matter, really. They're nothing to me, I just have a vague goodwill thing going on and I try not to step on their feet.

You are woman, you are strong, you are important. You are not domestic appliance, there for convenience of man. The best revenge is a life well lived. Excelsior! And 159 other cheering cliches. (And a . But don't tell anyone, because we don't do that here.)

feelhorrid · 20/01/2010 10:07

Bought some cigarettes last night and have slid back on that one.

Am tired and cold. Have taken to bed for a couple of hours with laptop and an array of self help books. Bed is a little crowded (not only stacks of books but a dog and two cats - will have to change the covers when I get out!)

I know my husband has tried albeit limited. I just feel like I should be over this all by now. I know I should be moving on and doing things for me. I certainly have plenty to do! I am just still stuck after months and so tired.

Thank you for posting. I am lonely too and it helps to 'talk'. I like hugs too!

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Anniegetyourgun · 20/01/2010 10:17

Books is good. May I suggest you read something frivolous for a change? Never mind about the cigs, every time you give up for a few days you've saved some money so it wasn't a waste. Maybe save some more by not buying another pack for a few days after this one finishes, then buy yourself something totally self-indulgent, or something pointless but fun for the kids.

There's no "should". What you feel is valid.

feelhorrid · 20/01/2010 12:38

I think it is the, very close now, anniversary of him telling me he would never come back as he was moving in with W that is hurting. She rang me to find out how to make friends with my boys!!! Arghhhhhhhh!

Ok, a good scream always helps. I just wish i felt as though he was truly back.

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feelhorrid · 21/01/2010 13:09

I have done a lot of thinking and reading. I feel sorry for him and that is colouring so much of my life. I am really concerned that he is here out of guilt/responsibility and is actually unhappy. I think having begun to understand this it explains a couple of things. Why I do not feel good enough and think I need to change...and therefore maybe why I feel responsible for his happiness which equates to failure.

But - he choose to come back. Yes, it was the easy option but he has chosen to stay (even when asked to leave). He has chosen to put boys, perhaps me, and maybe him, first.

I think I am finally beginning to understand what detachment is or can be. Now to work out if and how I can do it.

I am sure it is the time of year that is having such an impact on me right now. I have been having to most horrible flashbacks complete with shakes feeling sick etc. I wonder if he is having 'my life could have been different' flashbacks too?

Being kind, to self and each other seems like the way forward for the immediate future.

OP posts:
HappyWoman · 21/01/2010 13:29

have you changed names? Have we emailed in the past?

Can i just get this straight - she phoned to ask how to make friends with your boys???

feelhorrid · 21/01/2010 13:46

Yes and yes.

Changed names because, well I got into a muddle with some real life crossover and then. To be honest I feel ashamed to still be in the same mess but lonely enough to want to talk to someone.

She rang about the boys, in fact she rang several times, including one occasion when she told me she was worried that my husband might 'just' be having a mid life crisis and if he realized that after a COUPLE (!) of years with her would I still take him back. She asked if I thought she could make him happy...oh loads of crap.

This Sunday is the anniversary of her call about the boys, which was immediately followed by their night together. By Wednesday we will be at the anniversary of when she told him she was not leaving her husband after all.

I was so sucked in that at several points I believed and trusted her when I did not believe my husband. They used to gamble together and I received a lot of promises about that. I have repeated texts and emails from her dating over nearly a year some promising never to be in contact again (with him as well) and some asking me to effectively help her have him. Other times she told me he was seeing me on a particular weekend because she had persuaded him that he should try dating me to see if we could get along.

It has been such shit.

OP posts:
HappyWoman · 21/01/2010 13:57

do you want to email me again?

I will try and help

feelhorrid · 21/01/2010 14:02

Oh happy woman - I feel so sick. My email has changed as well (long story) but I think if you come in via the mumsnet thingy I will get it. I do not have anything that went to my hotmail address, so do not have yours. Maybe a good thing. I had a lot of stuff stored that I should probably not ever look at again.

OP posts:
PfftTheMagicDragon · 21/01/2010 14:07

I'm not sure that the answer to everything is for you to forgive. You seem to be pinning all your hopes of marriage resolution on your forgiveness.

But a few months ago he was still lying to you, won't show you e-mail accounts and refuses to go to therapy with you.

If your marriage is to work, everything needs to be out on the table, complete honesty.

You can't just forgive him and then everything goes back to normal, you have to work at it, and BOTH of you have to want to.

HappyWoman · 21/01/2010 14:08

have sent message via cat

HappyWoman · 21/01/2010 14:14

as i have said before i dont think you need to fully trust but what you do need to do is to trust yourself to do the best for yourself and your dc - i dont think you really feel this yet do you?

Dont feel bad that you do not trust - i know i dont fully trust my and not sure i ever will.
It is sometimes as i wish it would all just feel 'normal' again but i think some things stay with you for a very long time and rather than fighting it you have to learn to live with it.

And that is for you to do not him.

Do you think you have accepted that this awful thing was not your fault but that you still have a right to feel sad/angry/or whatever emotion you do feel.
Its ok to still love parts of your h too. I find it easier now to seperate the act from my h - it was an awful thing he did but there is still some things i love about him. He is my best friend - i may be a fool but i am happy about that - better a fool than some other things i could be.

I feel so much more comfortable with myself now - which is something i dont feel you do.

Anyway hopefully you can email me soon
Take care and have some cyber hugs

feelhorrid · 21/01/2010 19:51

No message in email - can I pick up CAT messages in here somehow?

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