I have panic attacks when I try to have sex (V Long)

[BertieBotts]

Sorry, I know this is really long and I hope it is not too hard to follow. There is some very very personal and emotional stuff in here and some of it is TMI, just as a warning.

With my first boyfriend, I found it hard to have sex. I think that looking back I was just doing it because it was what you did with a boyfriend, rather than it being because I wanted to be close to him etc. We did everything else but, both being virgins, we found penetration difficult to achieve. I felt it hurt too much every time we tried and I started to become anxious about it, however I was young and thought that if I said "no, let's stop trying and rewind a bit" that he would think that was unreasonable, so I just started to avoid anything sexual (even kissing) as I knew anything I started would lead to him trying to have sex with me, and I felt that it was like he was raping me or trying to rape me. (Which I know is silly because if I'd have told him to stop he would have done straight away). The relationship broke up eventually, mainly because of this and because he became emotionally distant (probably wondering why I was avoiding him/not talking) - but I also developed so much anxiety about the male penis that I seriously wondered whether I might be gay. (I also had a crush on a female friend)

Shortly after we split up I had a very short fling with another guy and proved I was not gay, I did not have sex with him though either.

After this I was single for a while and worried a lot about my inability to have sex and that I must be the only 17 year old virgin in the world (lol!) and why couldn't I just be normal, everyone else managed to have sex with no trouble etc. I developed a very close friendship with a male friend, we were both really open and I used to stay at his house after nights out. We would often sleep in the same bed and regularly cuddle, sometimes just in our underwear. There was a spark there, but he had a girlfriend and so we never did anything sexual - she knew we slept in the bed together semi-naked and was fine with it. I knew nothing would happen between us and I was very happy to have the friendship and the intimacy it provided without any pressure for sex. We used to talk quite openly about things as well - including sex - and it was at this time that I realised my sex drive could be reasonably described as "low".

A few months later, I had a crush on a boy at college, K. However I got the feeling he wasn't interested in me and I was out drinking and pulled a different guy (B) who I was surprised at being interested in me, because he was very very attractive. However a few days later I ended up staying at K's house, and we spent the whole night just holding each other, he was so respectful of me, and so so lovely and I don't think I will ever forget it. Anyway in the morning he said that he was not over his ex-girlfriend and although he had feelings for me he didn't think we should do anything about them. I absolutely respected him for that, but I was devestated. I saw B a few times but I felt as though it was wrong when I had strong feelings for K, so I broke it off.

A few months later I bumped into B again and we got chatting and ended up over the next few weeks getting back together. He did not want a relationship, but I decided that being with him was more important to me than him being faithful So I continued to see him although I knew he was sleeping around and he refused to call me his girlfriend or be called my boyfriend. We really fell for each other - and although he never stopped seeing other people, I truly believe that he did love me in his own way - and after a lot of trying, I lost my virginity to him. I know our relationship was unconventional, but at the time, I was happy, and I am glad I lost my virginity to him.

Now I have to skip forward a bit, to now, because I have to explain that I have just recently left an emotionally abusive relationship. One of our major arguments was over sex and my XP would always say "You used to have loads of sex with your old boyfriends. You just won't have sex with me." He would get really upset and jealous and fuming when he heard about or thought about me ever doing anything sexual with an ex-boyfriend, he even said I should have saved my virginity to him, though he wanted to know everything in detail and would ask me questions even though he knew the answers upset him. The thing is that over the course of the relationship, I started to believe him, I forgot all the heartache I had over my sexual problems in the past and thought that I really had found it all that easy - however, I have just found some old diary entries from the time and realised that when I did lose my virginity, although I liked the idea of having sex with B, I didn't really enjoy the act itself. It took me a few times to be able to enjoy it, and I found it uncomfortable (sorry, best word I can think of - not painful, not indifferent) to be touched in that area, again until I got used to the sensation and then could enjoy it.

I liked kissing B and I enjoyed doing other sexual things like oral and mutual masturbation, but I don't think that I ever really enjoyed sex and mainly did it because he liked it. But, after a while, I started getting anxious about it again and once I had a panic attack - crying and finding it hard to breathe - when he tried to have sex with me. I don't remember this and only know it happened because I read it in my diary, but I know I wouldn't have written it if it hadn't happened. I wrote a lot about him being frustrated and finding sex elsewhere and it started to bother me a lot, mainly because he was having sex with his ex-girlfriend. This and one incident when he flirted with another girl right in front of me made me realise I had to end it, and it was absolutely the hardest thing I have ever done, to walk away when I still loved him. This was only about three years ago and that is why it concerns me that my memory of it is so skewed.

I went out with someone else for a short time (M) and distinctly remember that although we did have sex, every single time we did I was either drunk or stoned, and once he asked me if I was ok, because I looked a bit bored. I was surprised at this because I suppose I was used to doing it just because B wanted to and not really participating myself Our "relationship" only lasted about 2 weeks. I was then single for about 2-3 months, and I felt really strong, like I was not going to be messed around. I promised myself that if one thing was badly wrong in a relationship then it didn't matter how good everything else was, that I had to end it, and I also promised myself that I was never going to have sex if I didn't want to again. However I don't think I was as strong as I thought because that is when I met XP who turned out to be EA.

I find it hard to say which of his behaviours were EA and which were not, relating to sex, because I suppose I never really knew what was normal in a healthy sexual relationship, but just the biggest things that I can remember, he used to sulk and refuse to cuddle me in bed if I did not want to have sex every night. He made me orgasm for the first time, and so I thought that sex was better with him - I know that I did enjoy it, at the beginning of our relationship, but he wanted - and expected - it a lot more than I did. I would describe his sex drive as "horny teenager" - I honestly believe he would have been happy to have sex 24/7 and not got bored of it. Whereas I as mentioned before have a low sex drive and find the thought of sex every day to be too much. I would be happy with once or twice a week and that seems like a lot to me. I would rather just deal with it myself TBH, though I do enjoy the intimacy of sex if I am in the mood.

Another thing I found hard in the relationship was that XP did not seem to do intimacy at all unless it was sexual. So for example we could not cuddle on the sofa without him wanting to grope me. A hug he had to slap my bum. Could not have a normal kiss, it had to be a snog, etc etc. I felt "touched out" a lot and automatically started to slap or move his hand away when he went near me, and felt starved of intimacy because I really need that to be separate from sex as well as a part of it. I think this contributed a lot to my not feeling valued by him at all by the end of the relationship.

By the time I got pregnant we were having lots of arguments about how I'd always had sex before with everyone else and about whether or not I had an issue and needed to sort it out, funnily enough it was never him who had the problem. My promise to myself about leaving if one thing was bad had not been forgotten but it was so soon after the memory of leaving B and I was so happy in the relationship, apart from this (and other controlling behaviours) that I could not bring myself to leave him. The pregnancy made me think I should try harder to stay in the relationship and so I kept making excuses for my low sex drive etc, I even looked forward to after the birth and hoped that I would be "looser" after childbirth so to make sex easier. (I am sorry and I know this sounds ridiculous but it is how I felt at the time). I warned XP that my sex drive would probably be low after the baby was born because I had read that this was a common issue and he said that he was OK with that.

After DS was born, we had sex when he was about 8 weeks old, and it was uncomfortable/slightly painful, but I was expecting that and thought it might get better. XP would get antsy if we did not have sex often and I would end up relieving him with a hand job or oral sex, but he wanted to have sex again, we did about twice I think, and then one time I suddenly felt really scared and like I wanted him to stop, but I knew he had been waiting a long time and I thought it would be easier to let him finish and get it over with - so although I was crying I didn't say anything, but the bit at the end - the extra thrusting when the man comes (sorry I know this is really TMI) I found very distressing and I had the feeling again that I felt he was raping me, except this time I didn't know whether he would have stopped if I'd asked him to, and I think that was the scary thing. I could not stop crying for ages afterwards and I could not have sex with him again. I didn't tell him how I had felt at the time because by then I think I knew that he was EA and I didn't think he would listen or understand. But for the next few months I would give him oral sex or hand jobs and let him cuddle me but not touch me sexually. By this point I think I knew I was going to leave eventually and so I was in no hurry to start having sex again. He used to text me asking for sex and hand/blowjobs every day, and always wanted more, so again I started to shut down and not offer anything to him - I tried to avoid this and had spoken to him about it many times previously, but he never listened or understood what I was saying and so we always clashed on this point. By the end of our relationship he was suggesting I needed to see a doctor about my "sex issues" but I never told him what I felt the day I cried when we had sex.

I know this is really long and thank you if you have read this far. I don't really know what my question is other than has anyone else experienced anything similar, and will I ever be able to have a "normal" sexual relationship? I am worried about this because I find it hard to talk about it in RL and so have never really known if it is a common thing or not. I am also worried that I might be asexual (as in have little to no sexual desire at all, though I definitely like men in a romantic sense) or the thought has even crossed my mind that I may have been abused at some point and not remember it and I think that is what scares me most of all.

BB, I am not sure I have any answers for you but I definitely think the main problem here is that you and your ExP were a complete mismatch. You were not compatible in bed and he was an idiot to boot. He does not sound caring or sensitive to your needs and this has hurt you, understandably so.
There are other men out there who would be much more understanding to you, when you are ready for a new relationship, and experience is a great thing too.
I think it may be a good idea to speak to your GP who may be able to refer you to someone; this would be to discuss some of the issues that you have talked about here.
I hope you are in bed now, getting some sleep

This must have been really hard for you to write. I'm not sure how common this is, my first was a lovely man, we are still in touch. After him I had a couple of relationships with men that were just a distraction from him because I really did love him. I fell pregnant with ds and have used this as an excuse not to date if I'm being honest. I had a few boyfriends since having him, none of them have lasted past a month, I get bored of them. I didn't enjoy sleeping with any of them, they were not who I wanted to be with IYSWIM, I did cry a couple of times, I got use to being a little tipsy aswell. My parents were never open about sex, I learnt the facts from my sister as my mum was too embarassed. I think that this 'hidden' side to it has caused problems IYSWIM. We are all a product of our experiences. I'd like to meet someone I just click with, I hope that when I do it will be easy.
Maybe you have been the same, in need of a loving, nurturing relationship first, someone you feel really comfortable with, someone patient and tender. Your GP can refer you to a therapist, this could help. It's normal for women to have a crush on another women, it doesn't mean they are gay. There's no such thing as a normal sexual relationship, everyone's different, we all have different needs and wants. You have to find yours.

BB, thank you so much for writing your post. It must have been hard to do, and you must be feeling a bit desperate to have done it here. It's the middle of the night now, but I'm sure by the end of tomorrow you'll have received many other supportive replies.

OK. You're not "wrong" in any way. Your ex sounds like a piece of work; I'm glad you got rid of him. Even if you had shagged loads of men before him, he would be completely out of order (and abusive) to give you brain damage about it! The fact that he managed to make you doubt your own memories shows what a nasty, manipulative person he is. If you ever think about him again, make it with extreme pity for whichever woman is currently suffering him.

About your wider issue (fear of sex, etc) - I can't think of a better way to explain, so I'm going to tell you my story.
Obviously I'm about a thousand years older than you, so the age-appropriateness has changed, but not much else!

I was brought up with a crystal-clear belief that sex is only acceptable with True Love - and that I would "know when it was the Right Time". Well, nearly all my classmates were sexually active by the time we did our A-levels, but I was still snogging & fumbling, waiting for the Right Time.

The 'right time' did arrive - but, sadly, I was too obsessed with my flaming virginity to recognise it! I owe an apology to a boy called Ant, with whom I didn't have sex one night at the age of 17. An apology to myself, too, because the first bloke I had sex with was a complete tosser. I remember thinking, "oh. Was that it." I was 20. The only thing I can say in the guy's favour is that he was utterly horrified when he realised it really had been my first time. He still left me to find my own way home, though

All of which is intended to show you that you're not too unusual! Maybe something in your past made you apportion more importance to sex than it deserves - but it doesn't have to mean anything deeply scary like buried memories. Many parents still attach a ludicrous amount of importance to their daughters' virginity, and many girls' first experience is crap. None of which is what the movies & magazines would lead you to believe, but it's life.

It might comfort you a little to know that I went on to have a gloriously varied, un-inhibited and enjoyable sex life!

There are a few medical conditions that can cause extreme discomfort during sex. However, the most likely cause is that you're having lousy sex with an unpleasant person. I think that's what happened in your case.

You're rid of the nasty man, and you're rid of the "virginity". Welcome the world of discovery before you, and I hope you find many princes amongst the frogs

Sorry to drop in here but I want to point something out-

"I had a very short fling with another guy and proved I was not gay"

This phrase rang all sorts of alarm bells for me. The word "proved" particularly. Why did you have to prove it?

I know plenty of gay women who have had a lot of heterosexual sex, even been married for years. Having sex with men, being married to men, even having children with men does not "prove" you are straight.

I'm not saying you are gay or bisexual, but I am saying that proving oneself straight is a stage a lot of gay/bisexual people go through.

Hi Bertie

Very courageous of you to write such an indepth and heartfelt post. My heart goes out to you.

I may be off-mark here, but these are my first thoughts - asked as questions:

1. Why do you choose men who are either unavailable, or emotionally abusive? There is definitely a pattern to the partners in your life, and usually where there is a pattern, there is an underlying issue that can be addressed to understand the pattern.

2. As you asked, have you perhaps been in a situation that you cannot remember where you were abused in some form or other? By your own admission, there are events that you have managed to block out, that you only remembered when going through old diary entries.

Some people have low sex drives - that's just the way it is. But a low sex drive doesn't by definition mean that sex isn't enjoyable. And when a low sex drive is coupled with abusive relationships; panic attacks in sexual situations; and your own doubts about what might have happened to you in the past - then it might benefit you tremendously to do some personal exploration into root causes.

Have you thought about seeing a counsellor or therapist? (If you've mentioned this in your post, my apologies.)

If these were my own circumstances, this is definitely where I would start.

Non-MNetty (((((((((hugs)))))))))!

Thank you for all of your posts.

cathcat I hope that it is true that I have just been with the wrong people. I think I will stay single by choice for a while at the moment - give myself some breathing space, and hopefully when I do meet someone else it will be more relaxed.

Belle Thank you for your post. It is nice (but sad as well) to know that others have been in the same position.

Grace I think there is some truth in saying that it was bad sex with the wrong person - the sex was always OK at the start of a relationship, but as the relationship started to go wrong in other ways, I think so did the sexual side - it's hard to know which caused the other. I do wonder if it was anything to do with a subconscious message about sex, I was brought up by my mum who was single from when I was 6 until now, she didn't have boyfriends or anything. She has a low sex drive as well but we don't really talk about sex much and I know she has been treated badly by men in the past. Maybe I have picked something up from this, I am not sure.

dizietsma I think that was probably poor choice of words on my part. I didn't mean that I proved it, more that I realised by doing that that it wasn't all men I found repulsive, just my ex at the time. I do think I am probably bisexual, because I have had feelings for women, but I have never had a relationship with a woman - I am open to it but I find it hard to imagine it at the same time, if that makes sense. I don't have a problem with being gay but I definitely seem to fancy men more than women, so I think it's unlikely that I am.

WhatNoLunchBreak Thanks for the hugs Your questions are interesting because that is what I am trying to ask myself. I have thought about having therapy or counselling but I find this really hard to talk about in real life, and I suppose that I am worried if I do explore I might find something I can't deal with, if that makes sense. Also I have had counselling before and found myself not telling all of the truth in case the counsellor judged me, which defeats the point really. When you say have I been in a situation I can't remember - I don't have any strange memories which don't add up, but it worried me a bit that I had blocked out the memory of the panic attack the first time because I can't remember that at all.

I have met a nice counsellor through the children's centre and I think I might try to follow that up again, because it is free and she seemed easy to talk to. (It didn't work out when I tried seeing her before because the only time slot she had free was difficult for me to get to, and I had no childcare)

I was very similar to you in my first relationship. Didn't like sex at all, and felt that it was being used as a way of 'controlling' me, and was also terrified about getting pregnant which didn't help. I would only have 'normal i.e. straightforward missionary sex, no oral, no intimate touching, nothing else. Even though my bf was actually a decent guy, he got fed up of this and a couple of times I cried because he wanted to have sex and I really didn't. Afrer that, didn't have a proper relationship for a good few years, the only thing was at an away day thing at work when I worked as a PA, and one night the whole team got wasted and I ended up having sex with one of the partners because I was too drunk to say no (and 18 years old). I didn't feel traumatised by it, but it definitely didn't help. I just got it fixed in my mind that sex would never be my 'thing' and that I wasn't very good at it... until I met current DP! He is the least pressurising man ever, to the extent that when we first got together I thought he was a bit odd. He would always ask first if he could kiss me, and ask if I was alright a lot, and took things slowly. Now I think sex is great and really enjoy it (see the 'oral sex advice please' thread a couple of pages back on Relationships - I gave a very full and frank guide and everyone laughed at me and went wehey! ), and could never be scared of it again.

I really think it is a matter of meeting someone who won't pressure you and will give you space. It's quite hard for men sometimes, because a) they tend to have high sex drives and b) they connect sex with love more than woman, so if you don't want to have sex they feel that you don't want them. DP still says sometimes 'We don't have to have sex tonight, you know. We can just watch a film if you like' but then 30 mins into the film I realise he smells really nice and end up jumping on him

Bit of a ramble, but hope it helps.

Thanks Brahms that is very helpful. Your DH sounds lovely Nice to know there are considerate men out there, I just need to stop fancying the horrible ones evidently

Actually I think it is really really sad when I look back and think that I never expected anything better than what I had because I just thought that all men were like that and found sex really important. And probably why I was so upset that it never worked out with K because I could see that he was a decent bloke but I thought that was something rare

Bertie, counselling won't be easy ... and there is always the possibility that you will be facing things that you have spent years avoiding - knowingly or unknowingly.

What I can say from personal experience is that the fear of what is behind your thoughts, feelings and actions is often much more destructive and terrifying than facing the truth. And facing the truth can liberate you in ways that are beyond description.

Moreover, often when we avoid facing our fears, we will create situations that increasingly pressurise us to look inward - life seems to work like that. Sometimes we need a personal crisis, or catastrophe, to stop us in our tracks and prompt us to start asking for help ... but that is often simply because we ignored or avoided seeking help earlier.

I have been in therapy for many years, and I remember when I first started, I, too, wanted to make a good impression. I started to address that by simply telling the therapist that that is what I was doing - and if they're a good therapist, they will know that anyway!

Finding someone you can trust, that you are comfortable with, and someone who intuitively feels right is a great start. It's no walk in the park - but, as I said, the results - however long they take to arrive (and they can take some time and work) - can be utterly transformative.

And I tentatively suggest to you that your posting here on MN has been your first step towards healing. What an amazing thing to have done!

It's certainly common for an EA partner to collect someone's sexual history under the pretence of it being romantic to "know all about them" but then turn it around and throw it back as accusations. It sounds like this person had a strong hold over you in that you came to believe what he said.

Hopefully in the future, you will find the whole package, a man (or woman if you decide that is what you want) who respects you, whom you fancy, who is mature about sex and experienced.

I think that Relate offer psychosexual counselling by email, given how well you wrote your post, maybe that would be a way to start tentatively?

Thank you LunchBreak

That is interesting to know Auntie, I had been thinking that if I do find a counsellor I get on well with I could print this post out and take it in, so email counselling sounds as though it could be a good start. I will look into it.

what lovely replies you have had I agree with all of it and won't reiterate but did want to say that reading through your post the thought that you might have been abused did occur - mainly because you talk about feeling like you were being raped and there's a strong suggestion of your thinking something like that in your post.

However, that could just be a red herring - maybe you are just someone who is a little bit off the average in terms of the spectrum of sexuality?. It also sounds like you picked a guy who only served to reinforce your own doubts and insecurities; a common enough mistake!

Whatever it is you you would probably benefit enormously from a bit of counselling.

Bertie, I don't know whether this is of any use to you. Something you said in your OP about finding the act itself difficult rang a bell. Might be totally wrong though.

No great expert here, but I think it is more common than people imagine tbh.
I was in an abusive marriage and hated sex with exh. The only thing I can say is that for me anyway, it did get better and with a considerate lover it can be fantastic. I went from not wanting to have sex at all with several relationships to wanting and having it all the time(with Ds's father), so don't think that you will always feel the way you do now.

I'd agree with Brahms that vaginismus is a strong possibility. Having been involved with a total bellend won't have helped, though. From what you have described of that XP's behaviour he was at fault, not you. No one is going to enjoy sex or be 'good' at it if they are being constantly got at and criticised. I would suggest some professional help from a sex therapist, preferably a female one, and when you embark on another relationship remember that a relationship is supposed to make you feel happy not as though you have to behave yourself and placate or obey the other person.

BB, thank you for your reply. You probably know I'm a big fan of counselling and, as long as you can find someone you feel safe with, and who seems like a happy person, I'm sure you could benefit.

Try not to let the thing get blown up as an even bigger problem, though. When your horrible boyfriend made you doubt your own memories, that was a classic abuser technique: they take advantage of your trust to mess up your head, so they can tell you you're mad. The fact that he manipulated you like that is NOT an indication that there's anything wrong with your mind. You mis-remembered because he tricked you into it

You said:
"I do wonder if it was anything to do with a subconscious message about sex, ... my mum ... didn't have boyfriends ... She has a low sex drive ... we don't really talk about sex much ... she has been treated badly by men ... Maybe I have picked something up from this"

I think it's quite possible that you learned a fear of men, and dislike of sex, from your mother. As girls we look to our mothers for information on how to be a woman. It's very sad that somebody hurt your mum so badly, it put her off for life. But your life is fresh and new, you can learn how to trust the right people