Is this a good marriage?

[fruitandveg]

I've namechanged so I can get some clear answers...

I'm concerned that my husband and I don't have a healthy relationship but I don't want to talk to friends/family about it (especially as I have a bad relationship with my family so would not get any clear answers anyway)

We have been married for 5 yrs, no children although I do hope to (this is part of the problem as he keeps saying we can when he's/we've done x,y,z)

A lot of the time we get on very well - really amuse each other, share a lot of the chores (I do more but he will do what is asked, usually happily)I tend to buy the food and cook it.

The main problem is that when we argue we are both really agressive, very offensive ... there have been a few violent incidents, nothing really damaging, but slaps, pinches etc on both sides. he is 6ft2 and 14 stone and I am 5ft 8 and 11 stone, so I'm not a slight wimp but I feel more threatened, he says that this is equality. we say REALLY awful things to each other.

We both work from home and have been so focused on building our businesses that we do not have a good support network. The recession has been tricky. I earn more and usually pay the mortgage and bills, my contracts are more regular. His work fluctuates more and he will put money into the house, but I cannot rely on it, so I always make sure I have enough to pay. I don't feel I can rely on him.

He is working on a project that could be very fruitful, but could come to very little. It has been going on for about 4 yrs and he gets quite irritable about it, but finds it ultimately fulfilling. I take anything going and my business is growing pretty well.

Is this a good marriage? I feel like I should get out before we have a child if this is not healthy and I can't think clearly.

Do you normally say the really personal and hurtful things when you've both been drinking? I found that to be the case in my marriage. We cut down massively on drinking (partly because we were TTC as well) and had couples counselling and when we did have a disagreement we started to stick to the topic we were talking about and not throw insults. Oh, we had CBT separately as well so it was quite an intense period of change.

You can stop that sort of behaviour - my husband and I are living proof. I never thought it was possible to change when we were in the middle of it all, but we did.

Do you resent his project? Does it seem pie in the sky to you or do you think it will come to something? Four years is a long time to invest.

How old are you? Is there actually time to wait a while before kids or not. Don't get to an age/stage where it could be difficult because you'll have big regrets.

do you love him?

Thanks bearcrumble and well done to you and your DH

I'm 33

I do resent the project in that I feel he's wasted a lot of time and money, but I also feel like it's coming on well and this may be the last year it's not finished, especially as my business is 'more real'

the arguements aren't always booze related - we don't drink much (a glass or two of wine with dinner) and the arguements can happen any time really

I do love him but I don't feel like he's grown up enough in the 10 yrs we've been together

I feel like I've changed more than he has

In arguements he says that I've changed but I wish that he would - I feel like I've aged and he hasn't.

I can understand your frustrations with him - have you spoken to him about changing your 'arguing style'? It's worth bearing in mind that it does take a conscious effort to react in a different way to the one you're used to - but the more you do it the new way the easier it gets. I would recommend counselling, if you can afford it. It doesn't have to be a last ditch thing - in fact I think it is better when it isn't.

At 33 it is a good idea to get started on the children thing. I'm 36 and 30 weeks pregnant now with my first - I wish very much that we'd got round to it earlier. It took us quite a long time to manage it when we finally did get our act together as well.

Do you think he'd be amenable to setting a timescale on this project? You can't keep putting time and effort in with no end.

He needs to be honest with you about the kids issue. It would be totally unfair of him to just keep stringing you along and coming up with new excuses. You're the best judge of whether or not he is doing that.

Really, it boils down to whether you love each other and whether or not you are both willing to put the effort in to change and grow.

Of course you have changed - people grow, various experiences shape us. You don't become an alien but you change.

To me it sounds like you'd have a good relationship and it could happily continue trundling along but you are questioning it... Do you feel you are marching ahead to the horizon and he's somewhere way back and not with you?

Could be time to suss out what you want, then chat with him to see what matches, what's a compromise, what you may never agree with.

We have talked about our arguing style a lot but when we next argue it just goes back the same

I am concerned this will escalate

we both have very difficult relationships with our parents and have been very supportive of each others issues, but this also means that we are really able to press the most hurtful buttons

he is likely to inherit money (not huge amounts but equivalent to a few years salary on his current earnings) and I feel this stops him being 'commercial'and realistic about his project

he is generous and I am a lot meaner, but I think that's becuase I'm the one that has to make sure there is enough for bills etc. he will pay when he has money but I don't like the big gestures, especially when I've been doing it all the other months

I can't work out if we've got too much bad feeling to stay togehter or too much good stuff to throw away

You refer to it as "our arguing style" and you'd like him to grow up as much as you have, but I have to say, why does it always have to get nasty on both sides when you argue? You can't force him to be nice, but you can surely decide not to be the one who starts to be nasty, and try to control your own reactions if he's the one who initiates it. You say you've talked about it but "it just goes back the same". That is a helpless sort of phrase, as if you had no control at all, but you wish he did. One of you needs to break this cycle, and as you're the one who's seen it for what it is, I guess that makes you responsible for taking the lead (again!).

Next time he says "You're just like your mother" for example, instead of saying "Oh yeah? Well let me tell you about YOUR mother", how about replying firmly "That's nonsense" and getting back to the original subject? If you can't do that, why can't you? Misplaced pride, feeling if you don't shout as loud as he does you've somehow lost face? Is it the same on his side?

Mudslinging resolves nothing, it's a no-win activity. By refusing to engage you aren't losing anything. The reverse, in fact; when you shout and yell and slap you've lost the opportunity to discuss the real problem. Getting into a strop is a great way of avoiding the subject.

Something that jumps out at me from your posts is that the relationship doesn't seem to be entirely equal.

You say you share the chores but then say:

"I do more but he will do what is asked, usually happily)I tend to buy the food and cook it."

So basically he does some of the jobs but if you ask him too and then not always happily? You also do all the food shopping and cooking. It doesn't sound like a fair split and I'm guessing there is some resentment about that?

You're taking any work that you can get so that the bills are paid but he has spent 4 years on a project that doesn't bring in regular money because he finds it fulfilling.

There's a certain irony in him saying that he is entitled to slap, pinch etc because of "equality" when from your posts it seems as though this is the only time he demonstrates any sense of "equality".

I can see what your dh is getting out of the marriage but (from your posts) I'm not entirely sure how you are benefitting from the relationship. You have mentioned wanting one particular thing (a child) but your dh isn't even willing to give you a definite answer about that and keeps moving the goalposts.

If a discussion is turning into an argument, if people are getting het up and violent, it's perfectly reasonable to say 'I need a time out, let's talk about this in an hour' and use that time to calm down.

Hitting each other isn't ok.

I think the issue of violence is more pertinent here than the issue of money and who pays the bills. This purely because I do believe that when I earn more than dh I should pay out more. For richer for poorer etc. That's just my position though and if you are unhappy with the financial split then you should address this. However, I would want to nail the aggression and anger issue first.

You clearly know that the way you argue is not acceptable. No human should treat another in that way Anniegetyourgun is right. It sounds like you have clarity on this and will therefore have to take the lead role in attempting to break the cycle and set new rules of engagement for your relationship.

If you are lacking any motivation in putting an end to this aggressive behaviour then next time you have a fight, imagine a young child is standing in the corner watching you. Sorry if that sounds dramatic but I've been that child and it is shit scary.

You can definitely get out of this way of communicating. Sorry for the long answer but this could have been me at one point.

I was in a similar situation to you - apart from the arguments we were a good couple, everything was right (not perfect - who's life is perfect) but the arguments were just horrible.

As other posters have pointed out, there does seem to be quite a number of issues which continue unresolved.

Are all your arguments circular, all taking the same shape, form, same kind of stuff getting dragged up?

From my own experience, CBT highlighted something which is so obvious I just feel stupid having not figured it out myself.

We would collude not to discuss any of the contentious issues when we were getting on - the idea being that these issues would just cause arguments so just don't speak about them. Of course, the only time we would speak about them was when we would be shouting and balling and everything would be heaped on. As a result, these issues would never be discussed calmly or reasonably, always when we had lost it. Arguments would be so horrible that it would take days to recover from and then you would just be glad to be at peace.

Following some CBT, it became very clear there are many different better ways.

Now, when there is an issue to discuss, one or other of us asks when would be good to fix a time to talk about it. We schedule it in, which gives us both time to think about what we want to say. We make a nice meal and talk reasonably. This almost always works. If one or other has had enough they ask that we leave it and come back to it another time. It is brilliant.

One other big problem of mine was that if something annoyed me, I wouldn't mention it, I'd just keep it to myself to "keep the peace". Then when I had PMT I'd let it all out. I would use the PMT anger mode as an opportunity to get it all out. He would be defensive as he would be getting everything thrown (not literally) at him and of course things would become huge and horrible, just as you describe, perhaps not quite so violent but certainly aggressive.

Since CBT, I don't let things build up. If something is bothering me I bring it up at an opportune moment and in a postive nice way and surprise surprise, the issue is usually accepted by him and resolved quite nicely.

The best benefit is that when we do have a big disagreement or tempers are frayed - I have no ammunition in my pack so to speak so the argument just has to die out, or you just sound stupid.

Unfortunately, I didn't get help until after my first child was born. I suppose, prior to this we were only harming each other, but as soon as a baby comes into the mix you see that there is just absolutely no way it could continue. There is no way we could bring children up in a house where these arguments were a regular occurence (not daily, just monthly or even 2 monthly). I realised if we didn't get it under control we would have to split up.

Ultimately, I had to acknowledge that the way I was dealing with things were not working and were utterly corrosive. It took a lot for me to do this, it was always easier just to blame everything on him. I went to my GP (who just happens to be brilliant luckily) and she referred me to a really good cognitive behavioural therapist.

Obviously CBT gave me much more than what I've mentioned.

I think this is such a good time for you to try and sort this out and get some help. It'll help you both discuss your big issues of babies and money and resolve them.

I mean, don't get me wrong, there are always relapses and we are not perfect but the regular crazy arguments are just gone.

Life now is good, its as good as I thought it would be when I first fell in love with him.

Things can change - you just need to want them to change.

I really appreciate your views on this issue

I think it's interesting that bloodyright brought up PMT and bottling things up as I do this too so I will take your advice on board

Also coppertop is very eloquent in pointing out the frustration in the lack of equality yet this being used for the worst example - I will give this some thought and speak to him rationaly about how I feel I have got the pointy end of the fairness stick - I know things can't be fair all the time but this is too much