An update for 'Have I said the right thing to DH'

[mampam]

Hi, I just wanted to give an update on my previous thread 'Have I said the right thing to DH?'.

It was basically a thread about what to do about DH's estranged parents now that we are expecting a baby together. Now I am calling upon the wisdom of you fabulous MNers again as 3 significant things have happened since I started my last thread.

1) DH has had a breakdown. Two weekends before Christmas we got in the car to go Christmas shopping and it broke down. This obviously pushed DH over the edge and he had a breakdown. He had to be assessed at a hospital and was eventually sent home with Diazapam tablets. He seems a lot better now, his GP doesn't think he needs AD's (although I'm tending to disagree) and is on an unfortunately long waiting list for counselling. Sods law we can't afford to pay for it privately.

2) DH sent his family (parents, grandparents and uncle & aunt) a Christmas card with a 'PS, just to let you know that Mampam and I are expecting a baby in May'. Just before Christmas we had a card (an extra card as we'd already received a Christmas card) from DH's parents (written by MIL) saying that they were 'looking forward to being proud grandparents' and signed off the card with 'warmest wishes'. Normally when my name is in a card from IL's it's only 'from', IYSWIM?

3) Today we have received a letter from IL's (written by FIL) saying that they would like to establish contact and want to patch things up now that we are going to be new parents. There are of course the obligatory guilt trips in the letter like, 'if you are willing to get in touch great, if not we will have to accept it and get on with our lives'.

Basically, whilst IL's seem to be being very nice I'm still very sceptical. There's still not even a tiny hint of an apology for the way they have behaved. It's been nearly 3 years since we've had anything to do with them. I'm seriously worried DH's state of mind the way that it is that he will be sucked back into their controlling games. I know that it is ultimitely his decision. To be truthful I'm scared. Mainly for our marriage, I'm not sure it will survive another assault on it from IL's, if that is their agenda. They might be genuine but if not I just can't go through all that again. I'm frightened also for DH's mental health.

HELP!! Any thoughts on this matter, for an objective perspective would be gratefully accepted. Thank you in advance.

Celtic, thank you very much for that post, it has come at the right time as DH has decided he would like to come onto MN and read this thread for himself. He may even post on here too, I hope he does as I think it will be good for him to get a few things off his chest.

Thank you also to everyone else who has posted and if there is anything that you would like to say directly to my DH, if you think it will help him, then please do so. Right now he needs all the help and support he can get.

Oh cool, I think thats a fab idea and it will sort of get him to see that there are other people out there that have been through the same thing. Will also make him see how you have been feeling all this time and that your main concern (except for the obvious) has been him and his feelings.

Good for him.

It's not a question of forgiving, is it? It's a question of the ongoing need to protect yourselves, because they will do it again. Some people mellow in their old age, but most just get more set in their ways. It would be a great shame if your DH's kindly gesture should backfire. I can quite see how he felt it was the decent thing to do to let them know about the baby (they'd have heard by some means anyway, no doubt) - but that does not, repeat not, mean you have to go the whole hog and re-establish them in your lives. They are allowed to know about the baby; they may be allowed to meet the baby; you may wish to send them photos on occasions such as Christmas. They can put the pictures on the mantelpiece and show them off to visitors. That's the extent of the grandparenting they can be allowed, because they will abuse anything closer than that. Forgive them if it helps, feel pity for them if you must, but don't lie down and let them walk all over your psyche with naily boots again. (Excuse me if that sounds like I'm issuing orders, obviously I don't mean it like that!)

Of course it's hard when you have to distance yourself from your own parents as we're all conditioned, both culturally and biologically, to respect them. I would go so far as to suggest that it's harder to break away from emotionally abusive parents because they have messed with your head to keep you where they want you, in the way that ordinarily loving parents would never dream of doing. Unfortunately fertility is a lottery which does not always favour the deserving. Some people who should have been lovely parents don't get the chance; some poisonous creatures just pop sprogs out like shelling peas, and proceed to treat them dreadfully.

On top of that you have the weight of other people's opinions to contend with. Unless one has had a toxic parent (I freely admit that thankfully I did not), one does not quite "get it". No doubt you're overwhelmed sometimes with friends or relatives trying to help you build bridges which, frankly, are far better dynamited. Their well meaning efforts just add to the pain.

mampam, so sorry to hear of your DH's health problems and I hope he recovers soon. Perhaps he should wait until he is fully well himself before continuing any further with contact, as he is in a vulnerable position right now and, as you have already suggested yourself, it might not be the best thing for him.

I think you have had some great advice here already - and I agree as well that it's unlikely to turn out well in the long run if you let his parents back in.

Either they could decide that the baby is too much like you and then be nasty/spiteful about it and you or ignore you both; OR they could decide that the baby must be "brought around to their way of thinking" which would involve things like putting you down at every available opportunity, undermining you whenever possible, telling other people how bad a parent you are etc. etc. The one thing they are really unlikely to do is decide that they were wrong about you, now you are having their DS's baby. As others have said, people like that won't ever admit to being wrong.

I think your idea of email contact with a separate email address is a very good one and that should certainly be the first (and possibly only) step if your DH decides to proceed with the reuniting process.

You are being really supportive of him - fair play to you here, I'd be finding it much harder to agree with any level of contact if it were me

I'm not ashamed to say it now because I have admitted it to DH that I hate his parents. They have csused me nothing but pain and have at one stage driven me to my darkest hour, thankfully I am now a million miles away from that time. We have both agreed that I will have nothing to do with them whatever the eventual outcome and if they ever ask why then they are to be told that it is because they have made their feelings for me chrystal clear so therefore it would be too awkward for me knowing how they feel.

Annie, the extent of IL's 'grandparenting' will never be allowed to go beyond what you have described, on that DH and I both agree. That is IL's own doing and they should have thought about that before acting as they have to their only child and his wife. However, I will not feel pity for them as they deserve everything they get. We never deserved such awful treatment or the stress of the last 3 years. I'm by no means perfect and certainly have my faults but I'm pretty sure I didn't deserve to have such a hate campaign launched at my feet.

Thumbwitch, you have hit the nail on the head about IL's view of the baby. It is my greatest fear. I'm not saying they would be like that with their grandchild but there is every possibility that they will view it like that just because I have given birth to it. It was exactly how they were with my DC's especially MIL. Took a dislike to them just because they were mine. In fact it took MIL months to even utter a word to DD when we lived next door to them. Funny thing was DH's grandparents came to stay for a week and suddenly in front of them MIL was chatty and polite to me and DC's!!!!

Its nice that you are both coming to some agreement, I have had endless rows with my DH over his dad. I have had to fight hard to get the situation as it is now. At least you two are working together on this.

Glad to have helped Mampam, I really hope you can get your DH to read this thread because I think he needs to know that while he isn't responsible for the awfulness of his parents, he is responsible for stopping this torment going on in your lives.

Having toxic parents is hard, but it doesn't have to ruin your life. It's perfectly possible to be very happy once you have taken steps to protect yourself from them and build a happy life for yourself.

Hi Mampam and your man - hope you don't mind me putting a different point of view? Your ILs have behaved unforgivably yes, BUT the way dh/you may end up feeling about the whole situation may depend more on how you and dh behaves to them rather than the way they behave to you.

If for example dh gives them another chance with explicitly clear expectations and boundaries they can choose to comply (in which case dh benefits from a better relationship with them) or they can choose to bugger it up (in which case dh still benefits from knowing he gave them a fair chance and that he is the one in the right). Either way it puts dh in control, he is the bigger person and is the one behaving in an adult way.

I would suggest dh decides what his boundaries are and sets them down absolutely clearly in writing to his parents. E.g. I agree to meet you and later bring my new dc to meet you regularly as long as you are prepared to speak to me in a polite, friendly, respectful way. If you ever behave rudely to me, or to my dc, if you ever speak rudely about mampam or if you ever (do XYZ -whatever it is they did in the past) then I will cut all further contact.

Whatever happens it should be your dh who is the one in control, makes the decisions and decides where the limits are. They are his parents and I think you need to step back from his decision on this one.

Slambang, not sure if you've read all of my posts on this thread but I have stressed all along that it is DH's decision regarding his parents.

The only advice I have given DH is exactly what you have said about setting the boundaries which is what I think he fully intends to do. Thank you for putting it in such a clear, concise way. You've explained it far better than I have.

Gonna pass the laptop over to DH now to have a read of this post!

it's no wonder you hate his parents- they have done very little to endear themselves to you... your husband has been somewhat conditioned to accept a certain amount of their behaviour and until he gets some decent counselling, he will always have that element of guilt about standing up to them and will be less likely to ask them to take responsibility for their bad behaviour and poor decision.

i feel for your husband because they are all he's ever known but there comes a time that you have to make GOOD decisions to protect yourself, your partner and any children you might have together.

from what you've written so far, it sounds like he lacks confidence. clearly he's feeling fragile at this time with the stress and pressure of the situation so mental stability and confidence building should be prioritised...

you need to be a strong united front for your baby and spending time with people who ENHANCE and ADD to your life is a goood start. perhaps pressing for anti-depressants if you feel he needs them is another step in the right direction- they could help him feel less overwhelmed. opening up to friends about the situation would be helpful for both of you (if you haven't already done so) and may take a bit of pressure off.

bottom line is, you don't ever have to see them again mampam- that is your right as an individual who has been pushed to their limit... it would be entirely understandable. it's up to him whether or not HE wants to see them... he could see them separately if he wanted to. oh and their'proud grandparents' shtick is a way of making you feel bad/confused/conflicted by the way... they're messing with your heads- they don't automatically have rights to grandparent your children just because they sent a bloody card after three years!

try to let it wash over you as much as possible. attila will love me for this- Toxic Parents really IS a good book for children of parents like this... some of the sections might not be entirely relevent but it's tone and honesty is great. very empowering.