I want to alk about my mum ...

[ItsGraceAgain]

I've been reading some horrifying threads in here about toxic parents. I'm so impressed by the strength & intelligence of the OPs, and the therapeutic brilliance that lurks behind some user names

I'm between therapists atm (got to start "training" a new one in Jan) and hoping you'll be kind enough to help me sort some Mum-related thoughts out?

moresprouts - you're so right about boundaries. I hadn't even heard the term until my mid-forties, when I realised I had none at all (hence weird partners & other life oddnesses).

I appreciate, exactly, what you mean about having adjusted to the Aspie world. There's actually a name for this - it escapes me now - though practitioners seem to think it can be overcome with a long holiday. Hah!

Mum has been known to go into meltdown in social situations, though she craves company. Dad was a total misanthropist so, between them, they managed to cut out almost all social activity from our lives. Which led to a closed home, secrecy and - well, you know ...

You're right, we do need to nurture ourselves. We also need advice on how to do it! I've been lucky enough to have a couple of therapists that were great at this - plus several who seemed in great need of it themselves. If you're in a position to find a new one, interview a few until you meet one who seems HAPPY

I bet my next one won't be (NHS overstressed services!) I may well be leaning on Mumsnet a while longer

No swimming together Grace fshock].

As far as getting rid of her old stuff, do you have a friend who could help you do it? It can be hard to go through everything on your own. Practice saying "No thanks" with a small smile, and "I'm sorry you feel that way" if she protests.

You are not pathetic don't look at the glass half empty . You are beating yourself up about things that everyone finds hard to a certain extent, although you have a more uphill road than most. If you re-read your posts you'll see there's a lot of intelligence, purpose, and insight there. You are making great progress what you're going through for the last little bit is potentially just a hiccup or a small detour. If you have the habit of saying 'I had a great career BUT it was all for the wrong reasons -- trying to prove I was good enough' then you devalue your own achievement. Try to be kind to yourself, generous in your attitude to your genuine achievements (yes, there are plenty, methinks), and don't be inclined to use the word BUT.

Grace - it's CADD. The workshops look as if they might be good, if expensive.

Sorry Grace, I misunderstood - the term I think you mean is Aspergated.

You're right, moresprouts, it is. Thanks.

That Cassandra syndrome is what I definitely had while married to XH. Whenever you try to tell your friends how very - very - weird your marriage is, it always comes out sounding like "he's just a man". It's so frustrating! In retrospect, I should have told them I never knew where he was & he didn't care where I was except when he was following me ... but, actually, how do you express even that in a way to show it's not a marriage of independent minds? Sigh.

In between NYE activities (muted this year, by choice), I've been mulling over the question of whether DM is more Aspie or more Narcissist and whether it matters. She might be both - a Narspie?? - and I think it does matter.

See, if her neglectfulness, weirdness & inappropriateness are the result of Asperger's - not only would it be unfair to hate her for it; it would be downright cruel to hurt her feelings further. Aspies' feelings are exceedingly strong, and they can't moderate them with logic.

Wrt her, that's my dilemma in a nutshell.

Or am I overcomplicating things? Most Aspies have unshakeable self-belief; most Narcissists have an unfillable need for self-belief. Net result: people around them have to supply admiration or butt out.

Whatever my amateur diagnosis, you're all correct when you say she's done nothing to help my psychological health. I just don't want to taint her last years ... but does that mean I'm still taking responsibility for her emotional welfare (as I have from before I could walk)?

Uurghh. Apologies for thinking on thread

She's a "Narspie". I will handle her as gently as I can, while protecting my self first - and I'll recognise that I need helping hands.

As far as NY resolutions go, I reckon that'll do for now

You're probably familiar with narcissism but this is a good site for reference.

I think there's an aspect of taking responsibility for her emotional welfare here, whether she has Asperger's or not. Most people are emotionally robust enough to handle their own emotional ups or downs, no matter what their problems are, and trying not to cause upset for them is really taking too much onto your shoulders. Your mum has a lovely man who she's happy with, and all your other siblings to support her emotionally. It's really not your job, alone, to take care of her emotional welfare. That job is up to her, primarily, Asperger's or no. Don't let guilt sabotage your forward progress.

Glad you're keeping a sense of humour Grace, I love the term 'narspie' - the two conditions do go hand in hand, don't they?

While googling aspergated, I found this thread and, although written a couple of years ago, it sums up very clearly what I've been feeling. It is very difficult describing a partner with AS unless someone has experience of it.

Hope 2010 is a good year for you.

I'm so impressed with how brave everyone is. So many people have so much shit in their histories and remain hopeful about how things can be for them.

Grace, I think you are thinking about your DM's feelings an awful lot.

"See, if her neglectfulness, weirdness & inappropriateness are the result of Asperger's - not only would it be unfair to hate her for it; it would be downright cruel to hurt her feelings further. Aspies' feelings are exceedingly strong, and they can't moderate them with logic.

Wrt her, that's my dilemma in a nutshell."

I feel you should be putting more of that energy into thinking about your own feelings and needs. It's kind of you, and right of you, to want to be kind to her, but I'm not sure you can have any semblence of happiness and be kind to her at the same time???

Kneedeep, you're right. I guess I still feel way too responsible for her. I have got some relevant self-help books from when I started treatment - they're all in packing boxes, but you guys have made me realise I still need them. I'm going to dig 'em out and, hopefully, go a bit deeper this time.

I've put affirmation stickies on today's to-do list! So I should be getting around to them sometime in the next few weeks, heh

Peculiar new year's eve - and very, very constructive! Hope we ALL feel happier, saner and more comfortable this year

Grace xx

IGA,
My lovely, brisk therapist was very big on 'self-care': you look after and protect yourself. It's natural, it's normal, you need never feel guilty about it or apologise for it. So you can and do hurt your mother's feelings if that is necessary to protect yourself.

I had to cut off a friend from my life completely because she had BPD and was gradually repeating her (acknowledged) pattern of 'meet, befriend, control, persecute' with me. It was hard and she was hurt, but it wasn't wrong.

You have every right to re-arrange, restrict or re-shape your relationship with your mother so that it works better for you. Remember, the reason this is necessary is that she has hitherto arranged it entirely to suit her.

Do you think it's possible some of the feelings of guilt towards your mother are really repressed anger? I found the more angry I was, the more guilty I felt and paradoxically, the less able I was to stand my ground with the people I was angry with. It really shackled me for a while.

Part of self-care is being kind to yourself-do you treat yourself as well as you treat others? Are you as forgiving, compassionate, tolerant? If not, why not? Start now!

Thank you, Eldritch. I do need reminding of that quite often!

I was just reading an article about the damage that positive thinking can do (since it requires you to gloss over unpleasant facts) and how I'm still acting out my mum's fantasies of loveliness ... I haven't put that very well, but still.

So I've forced myself to think of her face, hideously contorted, while she tells me (infrequently, but memorably) how much she has always hated me. And I'm writing some ANGRY affirmations!!

Actually, it's made me feel sorry for her in a detached sort of way. Must be dreadful to be a mum and hate your child Worse for the child, of course. I think I'm going to find this hard - and I also think it's a very big part of what I've been 'missing'. Thank you.

I agree with the article you were reading about the damage positive thinking can do when it comes to dealing with people like your mum ItsGraceAgain.

I also had problems getting comfortable with the COPD type 12 steps programme and CBT due it's forgiveness, apologising for my wrong doings and positive spin teachings.

The only thing that helped me come to terms with who my sister is, was acceptance that I just can't change her behaviour however much I try. I had to accept she has not got a vendetta against me alone (she treats everyone in the same terrible way eventually), this is the way she is made and because of that I pity her but can never forgive her as to forgive her IMO allows her power to abuse me again. Forgiveness to me involves totally wiping the slate clean as if nothing happened, this for me seems a very silly thing to do when trying to protect yourself from someone who has the capacity to destroy your life without a second thought if they so choose.

All I can do is look after myself and forgive myself for allowing her to treat me so appallingly. I no longer put a positive spin on her behaviour. If I did allow the positivity in, I would live constantly in the hope that she will change and then will be repeatedly let down and trampled on, again. I just can't allow that anymore.

I can't afford to lose anymore self esteem/self respect through not taking care of myself. This may sound very selfish but meh I deserve a bit of selfishness after all these years.

Ps I know dealing with my sister is nowhere near as complicated as dealing with a parent but thought some of my post maybe of use.

"I no longer put a positive spin on her behaviour."

I'm still practising, Zoomy!

Sorry for thinking on thread (again). Writing this is probably all I need but, again, your wise & witty observations are much appreciated!
Mama just rang for a chat. Thanks to you guys, I had my 'critical listening' hat on this time

DM: "We went to J's for dinner last night. She didn't make gluten-free pasta but I only had a bit of pain"
Subtext: I have to make vegan food for her, why the hell couldn't she bother with my dietary choices?
Me: "Oh, good, I'm glad you're OK"

DM: "She'd made the house look lovely .. etc .. I wish I could decorate as well as she does"
Subtext: How many Poor Old Me things have I got to say before you tell me I'm brilliant?
Me: "J does decorate beautifully, doesn't she?"

DM: "There's been another development in the village crisis ... etc"
Subtext: I am indispensable, aren't I??!
Me: "Thank you for the update."

DM: "What have you been doing?"
Me: "Nothing"
Subtext: I have spent the day Photoshopping affirmation posters, to help myself get over the useless life lessons you taught me. But I'm not telling you that.
DM: "Huh, nothing?"
Me: "Yes, it's been great!"

I'm quite pleased with myself. I was magnificently neutral without being rude
Now all I have to do is keep it up!!! With any luck, she'll lose interest after a while ...

Be very pleased with yourself!

Cheers, EC xxx