How do I help DH deal with bully FIL? (long, sorry)

[wingandprayer]

I am really concerned about the relationship between my DH and his Dad/my FIL.

They have never been close - his dad is a very successful, arrogant man with all the emotional warmth of a stone who has always made DH feel like he's not good enough. DH is a high achiever who gave up his career (and me, mine) so we could come home and get involved with the family business. DH is only child, without our return business would have to be sold or folded, and DH is professionally qualified in something relevant and had plenty of experience when we got here. What I mean by all this rambling is that while DH might not have worked his way up in the way his dad had to, he nevertheless has a valid viewpoint.

We've been up here 10 years this year and things seem to have got worse rather than better. He's not remotely interested in having a non working relationship with us or his GC. When we do go and see him we hear lots of tales about his flashy status symbols, we all get expensive gifts at Christmas, kids get for birthdays too (he ignores DH and my birthday without fail every year) but he takes zero interest in our lives. His secretary chooses and orders the gifts. FIL and MIL split up when DH was 4 so she can't help and stepMIL is every bit as emotionally retarded at FIL so they make a great pair. Having had a look at some info on toxic parents, I'm not sure FIL fulfils that criteria, but he's definitely a bully.

The real problems arise because DH works for him. FIL treats him like crap, ignoring his opinion, belittling him in front of suppliers and other staff, constantly doubting his achievements (which are plenty, business would in serious shit in many ways without him). DH is paid a fraction of what he would get if he had continued his original career, but he works less hours and he wanted a chance to build a relationship with his Dad, build a 'family empire' that of course one day he would inherit, so had no problem with this. DH works very hard, but every time he goes to his dad for some sort of validation or praise, his dad yet again kicks him in the teeth. He?s in that classic abusive cycle of hoping that next time FIL's reaction will be different, that he will get the reassurance he's looking for, but he never does.

DH's self esteem is at rock bottom as a result and our relationship is suffering because of it. He gets very angry, especially when he's had a drink, and I find it very upsetting that FIL can treat such a lovely man in such a shitty way. DH is a good man and a brilliant father, my parents adore him. The easy answer here would be to just get another job, cut FIL out of our lives, but we are stuck in a 'gilded cage' ? we look like we have a charmed life, but we are being suffocated by it. If DH left the business we would literally be disowned. DH would end up working horrendous hours or having a long commute so we'd have less family life, and I think the emotional stress of all of this could be even more damaging than the current situation. I would support him through any changes he wanted to make, I would go back to working full time, we'd do whatever we'd have to do, he knows this.

So how do I help DH 'manage' FIL? How do I help him be less hurt by his behaviour and bolster his self esteem? DH is literally wishing him dead, which I think is awful and so terribly sad and I know should anything happen to him DH would be devastated. I've suggested he goes for some counselling, but he's sceptical so was wondering if anyone knew any books that could help? What else can I do?

Many people on here are very positive about the book "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward - can get it from Amazon.

Stand up to him. Both of you, especially your DH.

I think he needs to get another job.

Why would the business go under without him?

i think your dh needs to leave. can't see any other way really. his dad isn't going to change.

This is a very common problem in a family business.

One way to deal with it is for your DH to negotiate with your FIL so that he becomes solely responsible for one piece of the business or a certain group of clients or a certain part of the process. The FIL becomes solely responsible for the other part.

Doing this early on before FIL becomes too old or ill will allow a smooth transtion between generations and is called sucession planning and something all family busineses have to do. If a 'empire' is what they want to builnd then having a proper succession plan is absolutely necessary.

Here is a short discussion about the issue from Business Link. Also if this is a large business we are talking about you may want to consder getting outside help from family business specialists like BDO Stoy Hayward who publish a nice downloadable Family Business Rulebook.

Finally, I would say that your DH should be paid the proper going market rate or given shares in the business in lieu of pay. At the moment he is building up informal 'equity' in the business by working for low pay but with no concrete promise he will get that equity once FIL dies or retires. Your FIL could sell up or give the business to another relative and DH gets nothing. In my view FIL needs to be given an ultimatum to start formally letting go and gradually handing over part ownership and part management of the business. If FIL wil not agree to this the business will eventually suffer anyway and your DH would be beter off taking another job elsewere.

Hanging the threat of beng disowned over DH if he leaves the business is absolutley not on. Your DH could take a low stress job for lower pay elsewhere and at least you and he would be happier.

Just to add one more thing.

If you/DH do have the kind of 'succession planning' discussion with FIL that I describe you need to keep it as far as possible like a business discussion and try and take 'emotion and family' out of the equation. That is why a dispassionate but skilled and experienced outsider can be helpful in facilitating the process.

Thank you all for your responses - it's been really interesting hearing your objective opinions.

We do stand up to him as often as possible, but as soon as we do, he gets personal and threatening. I think the last row ended with him yelling "do what I say or else....". That's the kind of childish shit we have to put up with. You just can't argue with him because he is always right even in the face of incontravertible(sp?) evidence otherwise. DH knows that if he ever issued an ultimatum, FIL would ignore it out of principle. He is totally, utterly, impossible.

DH has got sole responsibility for some parts of the business, really important regulatory bits that the business wouldn't be able to legally operate without, to sort of answer your question Diddl. Doesn't stop FIL sabotaging them though, then DH left with the stress of cleaning up behind him. At any given moment FIL also expects DH to drop everything, family commitments included, and do more menial/junior stuff that is actually the responsibility of other staff. He resents DH having any sort of power/responsibility and is keen to "put him in his place" as often as possible.

One thing I have suggested and will now encourage further is DH to see a recruitment consultant. I think he needs to know for certain what's out there because it could well be that he's over estimating how demanding any new job would be. Several major changes are due within the next year that could well see him working considerably longer hours and he certainly wont get a raise for it, so surely if he's got to work his ass off it should be for a good salary and a job he enjoys?

ABetaDad your links are brilliant and I've sent them to DH as food for thought. I think starting the succession planning process could give DH some power back, give him a positive focus. The developments next year require a great deal of money and time by all involved, so under the guise of planning for them and subsequent future developments he could at least get the concept of "life after FIL" on the table.

I would certainly prefer that DH left the business but I understand that after 10 years of grief he's got a lot of self doubt and if the fall out would be seismic then he needs to be sure that what he is doing is both necessary and the best for all of us.

wingandprayer - one part of your last post rang alarm bells:

"DH has got sole responsibility for some parts of the business, really important regulatory bits that the business wouldn't be able to legally operate without...."

If your DH is responsible for regulatory compliance, be it health and safety, financial services autority regulations or any other kind of statutory regulatory authority then he could be personaly legally liable if anything goes wrong. Very severe fiancial and even criminal penalties up to an including prison sentences can be applied in certain cases. It is crucial that your DH knows that the firm and FIL are in complete compliance at all times. If not he should formally in writing resign his position immediately and remove himself from the position of responsibility for regulatory compliance and state the reason.

I am not of course suggesting in any way that is the case as I do not know the business. If he does resign of course that would mean the firm would shut down and maybe that would put him in a powerful position to negotiate from there.

You are right ABD - only last year the business made an error which could have meant directors went to prison. Highly unlikely mind you, very much worst case scenario, but yet again DH was the one dealing with solicitors and regulatory body. FIL not remotely bothered by either risk or efforts DH went to to fix it. DH very good at what he does, naturally risk averse, but your point is a good one and one I shall making later.

You know, the more I write about this, the more apparent the answer is.

Yes, he needs to leave. I don't understand what is keeping him there tbh.

I'm woefully ignorant about business, and family business in particular, but I do know about being overwhelmed and eventually depressed at work. My DH also has had experience of being bullied.

I think your instinct is right - your DH does need to take control and get out before he feels unable to and it affects his long-term mental health.

Bibbity I think DH putting up with all of this is inevitably linked to trying to win his dad's approval and respect, for his dad to finally say "well done son". Even I know that's never going to happen. Having seen all of the above in black and white it's bloody awful, and that's only the half of it. He pulls these controlling stunts with our personal life too.

I need to help DH realise he is never going to his dads approval and once we are free of that issue he can hopefully make a more rational decision for his, and our, long term future. Because you are right Jamie... I dread to think what affect this could have on him if he has to put up with another 10 years of it.

Toxic Parents book
May be of help. Worth a try on the relationship front, although not from the business angle.

Thanks Katisha. People are raving about the book on Amazon but I can't read the full info about it on an iPhone. I wasn't sure originally where FIL was definitionof toxic parent but I'm not so sure now! I'll have to look into it more when I get in front of our PC.

wing - honestly- to an objective observer, he sounds like a nightmare. Best of luck. must be very hard for you to know best how to support your DH when he's so embroiled.

I think it may be worth DH looking for a new role, one to bolster his self esteem and 2 to put one heck of a warning shot across FIL's bows.

Sounds like FIL ought to be kissing your DH hand and not bullying him. He needs bringing down a peg or 5, and DH needs to learn to stand up to him and show him some arrogance back.

heartfelt good luck to you all, it's a tough situation all round, hope you all find a way out.

Thanks GHHH. I think if DH did tell FIL he'd been offered another job he would go utterly mental. It would be brilliant - I would pay good money and take popcorn to see that!!!

I will need to do some research about rec consultants near here and make sure he goes to see a decent one. The last thing I want is for him to be told he is unemployable or he is as stuck as his suspects, as that would extinguish his confidence once and for all. Do you think I could bribe them?!?

I'm sure if your DH has managed to bail out your FIL's co more than once, he's got more than enough skills to wow another empolyer...

I suspect your DH may be feeling a little deflated, cos his dad has been telling him he's stuck/unemployable elsewhere....

As a former Rec Cons myself, get the CV up to date, short, to the point and ridiculously easy to scan. If he struggles to do so, perhaps you can help him talk glowingly about his achievements.