Beak in or beak out?

[katemumtwo]

I am stuck in the middle of something awful and would like some advice. Dp and I are friends with a couple who are currently going through real problems with their marriage and I am wondering whether to say something (and if so, what). The background is that the H is a friend of my dp from when they were at university - I have known him for years as he was out on the night we met. Ten years ago or so he met and married his wife and though we don't live that close to them we have been friends ever since - both of us have a couple of dcs under 7.

Now, he has confided in my H that he has met someone at work that he has developed feelings for. He helped dp and I when dp had a brief affair with a colleague a couple of years ago and saw the devastation that caused - I left him for a while and took the children and he helped sort of mediate in us getting back together.

Because he saw all that, our friend therefore hasn't done anything about his feelings as deep down he knows it is wrong, she'd probably turn out to be not half as great as his wife, and he loves his kids but they are really affecting things with his wife - he is following the usual script of getting worked up about the OW and his feelings and during this phase treating his wife like crap (been there, got the T-shirt on the receiving end of that one myself), then feeling guilty, pulling back from his feelings for OW and concentrating on his marriage and saying everything is 'fine' now to dp.

Now, this cycle has happened twice in the past year. The last time he was so awful to his wife that she said she'd leave him but he somehow managed to convince her things would be better and she stayed. The problem is that having been through all this myself I'm not sure I can stand by anymore without sticking my beak in. I admire the fact that he's trying really hard to do the right thing but I just don't think he knows how to, or how dangerous his half-arsed efforts at self control are?

I just feel that I really need to tell him that if he wants to avoid screwing up his life he should leave work and cut all contact with this woman because otherwise the process will just repeat and repeat until either a) his wife leaves b) he finds the excuse that gives him permission to test drive the OW and everything turns to crap. I know it's their business and so far I have kept out but dp is useless at giving him any constructive advice and I am dying to pick up the phone to spare a lovely couple the horrible pain I went through. Thoughts?

He should actually get some counselling, ideally on his own. Given he's just been through this twice this year, presumably with different women, then he'll just find someone else to obsess about, wherever he works next.

A therapist will help him work out why he's doing this, and work out how to stop.

No - it's the same woman. He decided he liked this OW, realised he was being awful to his wife (avoiding sex, not finding her attractive and being irritated by her through no fault of her own except that she wasn't the OW - typical pre-affair / affair male behaviour) so stepped back, then got caught up in it again and repeated the same behaviour. I just don't think he realises that he will not be able to get out of the loop unless he distances himself from this woman...

It's all about lies, isn't it? Lies and deceit, which he is making you privy to.

Can't you tell him that you don't want any part of it?

Kate, like you I've been there and got the T-shirt. I've been considering your original question. Without doubt the best person to knock some sense into him is your DP, since it is he the friend confided in. It worries me slightly that your DP cannot find the words to do this properly - if he has learned his own lessons, he should actually be in the best place to deliver a very powerful message. I don't want to add to your issues, but that might be something worth thinking about from your own relationship's perspective?

It sounds like you know this man well enough to be in a position to deliver some home truths - from his wife's perspective. Therefore I think you should do just that.

It's a good sign that the friend has actually confided in anyone at all - this is actually an opportunity that if he did but admit it, he is giving himself. He wants someone to "stick their beak in" otherwise he wouldn't have shared this. Given the circumstances, he can hardly have expected your DP to slap him on the back and tell him to carry on regardless, can he?

He's also in massive denial, that he's "doing the right thing" by resisting this woman, when really all he is doing is blaming his wife for getting in the way. He is punishing her for being an obstacle and he needs a large dose of reality.

A good friend - and I mean a really good friend - will tell us when we are behaving like an arse and in general, I think we should not stand by and watch on the sidelines when we can see an innocent person and her children being damaged like this. It's that old motto of "all it takes is for a few good (wo)men to do nothing..."

You know what this feels like and so you have empathy. Yours will be a very powerful testimony. If you could get your DP to back you up on this and point out how damaged he is after his affair, it will be even more powerful.

Thanks - my dp is just a bit useless at this sort of thing, he is so sorry about everything that he is terrified of mentioning it. If anything with a character with the OW's name is on telly, for instance, he starts apologising again. I think the H tried to talk to him about it but dp was conscious I was in the house and could hear the call so he didn't want to talk about it in front of me because he is afraid of upsetting me by making me think about things again. I heard him say 'it was really awful but lets not go there' a couple of times, which isn't helpful I'm sure - mil is staying currently, too. She came down very hard on him about stuff so I'm sure he was too embarassed to have the conversation in case she heard.

I'm sure if they'd had a few beers at the pub it would be different but geographically it isn't currently possible, unfortunately.

I'm going to speak to dp and arrange for one of us to do it - I am very aware it is Christmas party season and massive crush plus alcohol equals disaster. I also think he is in massive denial about the fact he is 'dealing with it' - if he'd made the decision to cut things the first time and stuck to it then okay, but the fact it has erupted again tells me he can't control it like he thinks and it is only a matter of time before it all goes horribly wrong.