A kick up the butt one way or another please? so close but having the wobbles

[dippyrascal]

I've recently told my dp that I want a separation following 10 pretty turbulent years, the last one being in counselling - sometimes counselling as a couple, sometimes alone. Now I look back I see that going into the counselling I was an absolute wreck, exhausted from a full-time job, two kids under 5, money worries, what felt like constant conflict at home, little help with the every day practicalities. Some of his behaviour I put down to stress, he does get stressed quite easily and we had a lot on our shoulders so he really wasn't coping well.

BUT, I knew deep down that things weren't right and hadn't ever been really right. He could be lovely, kind, funny but then flare up at the slightest thing. He wasn't physically violent apart from one time 7 years ago, mainly he'd just be so cross with me, always making me feel like I wasn't putting enough into the relationship, telling me I was selfish, ignorant (as in rude - to him of course), I was told I was always trying to please other people, I had problems with anger, I was over sensitive, when we argued he'd get really pedantic about what and how I said something so we'd end up arguing about that and how crap I was. Also I was always making him feel bad out himself, unloved, undesired. If I asked him to do more to help he'd either say 'yes, of course' but do nothing about it or take big offense, get all hard and stony and basically turn it back on me for being unreasonable. There were also occasions when he was so unsupportive it was unbelievable, there's more but it would fill a novel.

Meanwhile he would continue to tell me I was beautiful, how much he loved me, how proud of me was, how our family is everything to him. The kids adore him and he's a very loving father and wasn't particularly horrible to me in front of the kids. Everything was very confusing, basically I felt like things were all on his terms but he was telling me they were all on mine (which I believed) and I see now from the counselling we were trapped into the typical abusive triangle where we both played out our roles of either victom/perpetrator depending on the situation.

Since counselling (the last counsellor told me to leave him, the first opened my eyes to abuse not necessarily being violent or verbally really obviously nasty - ie bitch, you're fat, etc etc) I've read up a lot and posted on here about a year ago and got a lot of strength from it. Still though I felt responsible for him and kind of believed still - pathetic as it is - that if I was nicer to him things would improve. He has made big efforts since counselling, is more helpful at home and the more obvious controlling stuff has gone but still I can feel stuff simmering.

The last straw for me - a tiny one in retrospect considering - came when I'd arranged to have dinner with a friend on a week night at her house, something he was apparently fine about, but he said he needed me to be in to help him sort out some stuff for the plumber arriving the next day. I told him I didn't want to do that as I'd cancelled the week before, didn't want to let her down again and she was expecting me. I did what I could to prepare on my own, moving furniture around, and suggested that when he got in from work - at 5.30 - we let the kids have a treat of a dvd before bed or something and crack on with what was effectively just moving a bed and lifting some floorboards. Then we could get the kids to bed, I'd go out and he could relax for the night. If needs be, as I'd only be gone a couple of hours (a school night, no booze) we could finish up when I got back if he still needed me. No, he said, he needed me in all night. Tbh I thought this was ridiculous and didn't say so but said that I was going to go out, I?d done what I could to help, was still prepared to help but that I didn't think he did actually NEED me in all night.

Effectively it was coming down to a power struggle and I could see he was getting angry as I was dismissing his needs and putting a friend before him. I felt that he was forcing me to choose again between him and others. I went out, came in later, whereat he walked up to me and hissed in my face 'Are you happy now, the bed is broken, that's your fault. And I haven't been able to do all I wanted to so we'll have to pay the plumber more. I hope your night out was worth it.' And various more bits telling me how selfish I was. At that point I thought this is bloody ridiculous and whoever was in the right or wrong what a mess it was and we really weren't doing each other any favours staying in the relationship. I told him it was over, slept downstairs and have done for the month since. Meantime I've stayed strong and asked he move out in the New Year, I'm being reasonable when he says he / we can't afford it and he has asked for proof from me that I can manage to pay the mortgage and provide for the kids. I've gone out and got myself another job which fits in better around school hours so I'm at home for them and have taken on freelance work to make up the difference in full time pay. Things will be hard, we have a lot of debts and it's inevitable we will have to sell the house. Meanwhile, I though it easier for the kids to stay here with me.

Anyway - the point of my post - I'm starting to wobble and wonder is it all me just being rubbish. He keeps on saying it's my decision (which it is), he wants to try and work it out, he loves me, says we have to accept we don't agree on certain things, that's what relationships are like, that he's going to have to live in a shit hole (why?), that he feels he can't do anything right and that I'm cold and acting as though I can't wait for him to get out. Meanwhile he continues to do diy on the house and in some ways act as if nothing is happening. Because I DO feel cold and numb towards him and know what he says is right to a certain extent and I'm feeling that maybe I am rubbish and that getting out the relationship isn't the answer cos at least I know he loves me, and understands me and maybe I'll poison all relationships I have and what am I doing to the kids.

Basically I know this sounds so pathetic but if you've read this far thanks and please try and help me see things in perspective.

You are doing the right thing.

You know you are.

You are just scared of it as it all seems real.

If he loved you he wouldn't speak to you like that.

Well why shouldn't you be "cold and acting as though I can't wait for him to get out."
You are splitting up!

Sounds like he is in such denial that it is rubbing off on you, like all the other crap he spouts.

I think you are doing the right thing too.

You are doing this because of his behaviour - because of his failure to treat you as a human being and his equal.

So it may have been your final decision but it was him that caused this through his actions - actions that he chose to take.

Reading through what you have written it sounds unbareable what he has put you through and I suspect that only scratches the surface.

He is still bullying you.

If he actually wanted to save this relationship he would be working on it - treating you better. He isn't. You have had a year of counselling and it still hasn't improved. You have tried. He hasn't and he is responsible for it.

As to feeling cold and numb towards him - that is normal. Especially after how he has treated you.

If he loved you he would treat you with respect. He would change his behaviour towards you rather than seperate. He hasn't - his reaction is to treat you just as badly and to try and convince you that you are at fault. does this seem like the behaviour of a loving partner trying desperately to keep his relationship together?

This isn't your fault it is his and you are taking the only course of action left available to you that guarantees you some kind of a life.

He caused this not you.

I have read all your post

All I will say is "what advice would you give to someone else who had written that?"

the answers are all there, in black and white

he will not change, he isn't bothered about making you happy, he is trying to control you and then getting angry when he fails

what he is doing now is further attempts to put you on the back foot, appeal to your sympathy

you don't love him anymore, he has made himself unlovable by you

the fact you are still living in the same house is muddying the water, and he is playing mindgames by carrying on as if nothing is happening

stick to your guns

once again i agree with anyfucker. i so hope you are able to move away from this sorry excuse for a man sooner rather than later.

agree with above. like my exP he confuses "love" with need and want and desire to control.

he wants you there and a complete family because it is easy and looks good and doesnt require him to take responsibility - there will always be you to blame.

making it difficult for me to go out was also a classic move by my exP...

stay strong, have him move out. within a few months you will soon know you have done the right thing.

be warned - he may make things v difficult over contact etc - may try weedling his way back in.....be clear on when and how contact will tkae place and have it happen at his place /outside your home. set the boundaries from the beginning.

and his feelings (eg "but i love you!") are HIS problem to deal with, not yours....

Agree with all of the above.

You have come so far OP even though it may not feel like it, and although the next step is a big psychological one, your life will be so, so much better after you have taken it.

He is insecure and weak and he has tried to project this onto you with his abuse and his need to control and reduce you. He may not always even realise that that is what he is doing. It hasn't worked and you should be proud that you are unwilling to take it any longer.

When its over and you look back your only regret will be that you put up with for as long as you did. If time machines existed, your future self would come back and tell you now to carry on and end it. You say it doesn't cary on so badly in front of the kids but, believe me, they see and hear and know it all and this is making an imprint on their brains of how relationships are menat to be. Once they get to a certain age that harm will be very hard to undo.

Your H is acting normal because he thinks you won't follow through - I wouldn't put it past him to get difficult or even violent when the time comes for him to go. Be careful.

I had an ex like this - a spiteful, insecure mean-minded, vicious man - everything was always my fault - to a laughable degree but I was young and foolish, and I was stubborn and saw him as a fixer upper. He never changed because he didn't know any other way to be.

Keep going OP, listen to your gut, you know its the right thing.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I know if I read this I would say run like the wind! - and really what I have posted here is the tip of the iceberg.

I know I don't love him, what I have is a sense of responsibility, I know I have absolutely no desire to have sex with him ever again and I'm pretty sure on the day he moves out I will breathe an enormous sigh of relief as I have been dreaming of it for years.

You are all right of course, he's an arse, always has been. Let's hope I'm better at recognising them in future. But I've spent so many years trying to see things from his point of view, questioning myself, trying to justify everything I say (still doing it or I wouldn't be posting here would I?). Cestlavie what you say is so true, he loves the idea family life, its all he's ever wanted, he thinks he's committed to it and feels like a big man for having it but its me who sorts out every tiny last detail of managing it. I was out for xmas dinner with some of the school mums last weekend and he called 4 times and texted as dd had toothache. Told me he wouldn't have done it but he didn't know whether he could give her ibuprofen and calpol together. Like this is knowledge I was born with and didn't have to find it out for myself along the way?

Thank you ladies, I feel the metal coursing through my blood once more.

dippy, I did think there would be more to what you have posted

your relationship is over, you know that

now do stop hankering over what might have been or what should have been

it ain't never gonna happen

but you can change your life, without his malign influence on you, the sky is your limit!

You know anyfucker, that's exactly where I was when I asked him to move out, I knew it was over, I knew I'd be happier without him, I could see so plainly that it didn't even matter if he could turn into the most perfect wonderful partner in the whole world as I just didn't actually care that much any more. That bridge that was keeping me connected to him was crumbling. I now need to keep myself tough, look forward like you say and stop allowing him build to it up again by questioning myself. When he goes I will post a hallelujah. Thanks again

yes! do let us know when he is gone!

and take no crap from him when its time for bye byes!

Cold feet are completely normal at this stage. This bit is hard. You'll be surprised at how quickly it gets easy once he's gone!

Good on you, stay tough. He's a waste of space and (unless he's really pig-ugly) will shortly move on to another woman and bully and belittle her, men like this always do. Remember that if it does come down to it you can get him removed from the house ie if he won't go.

Hello again. Well, we had a chat last night. I said we needed to set a date for when he's moving out. After much to-ing and fro-ing and telling me "You're not having your own way over this" he finally said that he didn't think it would be before June/July! Great. Again using the excuse that's it me causing all this upset and he won't be told what to do and he won't get himself into more debt because I decide he has to leave.

I reminded him that we wouldn't be in this situation if his behaviour hadn't been so unbearable. I told him I'm not going to start feeling sorry for him so please stop giving me the sob stories of how hard it is for him, how he feels he has the weight of the world on his shoulders. That we need to find a way for him to get out sooner, it's not ok for us to be living like this for the next 7 months.

So after a very tense hostile discussion, 10 mins later he comes to me practically in tears saying "it doesn't have to be like this... all I want is for you to be honest with me". When I tell him I am being incredibly honest with him his response is to tell me not to get angry and that I'm taking everything he says the wrong way.

I don't want to get him removed but let's see I suppose. I'm thinking about borrowing money, putting a deposit down on a flat and saying there you go, all sorted but that's probably because I'm so used to taking charge over things and it is, I'm sure, not a good idea really. Also, if I'm sleeping downstairs for weeks, even months to come what to tell the dcs? At the moment they think it's because I have a cough and have been keeping daddy awake. How are they supposed to get their heads around separation when we all live together? And do I tell their teachers at this point that there's upset at home or wait til he does finally move out?

well i do know someone who got the now exP's flat sorted for him - that did indeed work...

it is quite difficult to get someone removed actually, unless he has no joint ownership of the family home?

if he joint owns with you then he would have to do something bad enough to get injunction....that is why in the end i had to move out to rented flat with the DCs... as exP refused to go. (and we living in nicer place now with garden) .

the thing is - june july will turn into september, or december, or...?? could go on forever...

your DCs are small so keep it simple at the moment, in your explanations.

if they playing up at school then tell school. ottherwise they probably not realising much - unless they seeing the hostile rows...

god what a nightmare

have you any respect left for him at all?

he wants you to be honest with him? Eh? Are you speaking a different language to him ?

I agree with cest, he will keep putting the moving out date further and further back, thinking that is he digs his heels in you will give up and things will grind on as they did before

but you are not happy with that

I don't know what to suggest, tbh

there must be others who have an exp who has refused to move out....could you post another thread asking for how to handle that specifically ?

He's not going to leave of his own accord, unfortunately. ANd it is true that it's hard to make someone leave a home that they have a legal right to be in (his name on the mortgage/rental agreement) unless he is physically abusive or threatening, in which case he can be removed by the police and refused the right of return.
If it's your house/rented in your name you can just tell him to go and be firm about it, but if not it's going to be harder. Is there any way you could move with DC? TBH you need to be a bit careful now because a man like this, who has decided that your wishes don't matter because you're not really a person, will decide that he can ignore your 'bitchy woman whining' about splitting up, you are still his possession - and he may at some point try to have sex with you and be unpleasant about it.

He's out tonight thank god. He acted today as if nothing has happened. And no, I don't have any respect for him, I realised a while ago (thanks to Lundy Bancroft) that the nice things he does, he does because he wants to make himself feel like he's a good person, not because of me. And his idea of doing something nice for us generally involves me putting in most of the work. A month or so ago he got us tickets for a gig down in London for a band he wanted to see, I arranged babysitting with friends in London, arranged us somewhere to stay for the night, drove us all back the next day (he drives but doesn't like it). He had the nerve to use that against me, saying "at least I think of things for us to do together".

I think what I'll do is get christmas out of the way and then insist that we start telling family and friends. He likes to be seen to be doing the right thing so that may make him realise that in others eyes it's a bit odd that I've asked him to leave and he hasn't. For the same reason I don't think he'll get too nasty but then if he's feeling like he's got nothing to lose... I'm hoping if it sinks in I'm a lost cause he'll move on, but then I feel bad for any other poor woman he gets his teeth into.

We have the house in joint name, it's a big mortgage but low at the moment as on variable - once that goes up even if I do stay here there's no way I could afford it on my own. Much as I love my home I have got to the point where I simply crave somewhere without him. I have lots of support, somehow managed to keep my friends and make new ones despite his efforts. My parents are difficult - the source of my problem I suspect - but then I know if push comes to shove they'd be there for me.

Thanks for your replies, really they've helped no end. In RL I know some friends are desperate for me to leave him but don't want to alienate me by pushing too hard, whilst others are in pretty dysfunctional relationships themselves and make excuses - as I have - to justify that. It's a relief to simply hear- go, don't live with this any more, you can do it.

aww, you sound lovely

I agree with telling people, make this situation real and it may force him to wake up and start smelling the coffee

This is what I meant by not taking any crap.I suspect there may yet be many twists and turns before you are free of him. He won't have given up the game just yet.

Next June or July? might as well be the twelfth of never...

Every day that you are stuck there OP, sleeping on the sofa and listening to his bullshit, is a day of your life wasted. A day you will never get back.

Just put the house on the market - prices are on the up again and if you sell he will have no choice but to move.Either that or get him his flat sorted -its a small price to pay.

So do you - in a kind of tell it as it is kind of way (grin)

For me making it real is very empowering, and very scary for him - I've realised I don't give a toss what people think any more, shame its taken this long, just shows we never stop growing up!

dippyrascal, you could be telling my story as well as your own. I have waited over a year since I knew it was over, and in January it will be a year since I told him that it was over. After nine months and some mediation, I managed to get some money out of my 'ex' and I'm buying a house which is taking the longest time ever to go through (offer accepted Sept 4th). I thought I'd had my last Christmas and my last new year here, and it's not a home any more, it feels like a prison. I look forward to going to work and I dread weekends and evenings when he is around.

Be strong, and you will get the outcome you want and deserve. Months ago one of my closest friends sent me a text starting 'You WILL get through this' and that is what I keep telling myself.

Don't put up with emotional blackmail and bullying. I was told by my ex that I had ruined his life - I knew that if I stayed I would ruin mine.

Good point, perhaps selling is the way forward, before I start the new job I'll get the estate agents round to value it. I was worried about the upheaval for the dc, dd at the age of 6 has already had 5 homes and ds at 4 has had 4 - as I moved loads when i was a kid I wanted something stable for them. We relocated up here to give them that. But they're young enough for it not to matter so much, I recall it was as I got older that it caused problems and if they're not moving school its not so bad.

Yes, lilac21, in not so many words - but by the head in the hands whilst watching tv, big sighs etc etc I fear I am also guilty of 'ruining' his life. Well done for sticking with it, hope you're in your own home soon, I can only imagine how awful a year of this must have been like. But how good it will feel to be out of it. Any chance you will be in for christmas? And what are you doing for christmas? We are having it here, just the 4 of us which I'm dreading but if I treat it like a Sunday with a very special kids friendly morning I'll get through it. For New Year I'm going to say we should spend it apart though. How about you?

You haven't ruined his llife. HE has ruined his OWN life by being an unbearable knob who no sane person could live with. He has bullied you, belittled you, treated you like a servant for years, he has no respect or consideration for you. He CHOSE to behave like that. DOn't feel guilty about deciding that you are a human being, not a service appliance for him to disregard.

if in joint names you wil need his consent to sell it. that could be hard, he will prevaricate at the least....

you can go to court to force the sale. that will take time but go speak to a solicitor... the application fee is only around £150 but costs mount with solicitor etc... however, you should be able to recoup that on sale.

see www.edwardsduthie.com/case-plan-for-trust-of-land-act-(with-children).html

like me you have a p not an H - if was an H you fiel for divorce and these things get sorted - if you nor married you have to go other routes ie trust of land act etc.

s i moved out to rented flat the issue fo teh joint owned property is still ongoing - have now formalised contact arrangements with final court order (residence in my favour) so is settled as far as i am concerned (if he not happy he will have to take it back to court) but only now beginnign on sale of jont owned flat etc. he jsut prevaricates, says he will 2sign whatever you want" then refuses to answer straightforward financial questions...so only way is to apply to court for sale in new year....that way even if he refuses to sign at last minute if buyer is found, you can get it signed off in his absence by a judge (apparently)...

you do need to think ahead to what the contact arrangements wil be for kids - dont ahve it nebulous and "come when you want" - best set up fixed times from the beginning with at least one or two days per week where you DONT see him... ideally dont ahve him come to your house to see them tho i know with younger kids it can be difficult.