AIBU to expect an apology from my friend's husband?

[duke748]

Please do help me out if you can.

Last night at a social do I had an argument with my very dear friend's husband.

It sounds stupid but basically at the end of the meal (about 15 people) someone was working out who owed what on the bill and he said something along the lines of 'why don't we all just pay for what we ate' and I said (I admit somewhat exasperated) 'that is what is happening, that is what she is working out'. He then told me 'button it you', waving his finger in my face and shouting.

For a second I thought about letting it go, but then I said in a low voice 'don't talk to me like that' and then he starting getting his face in my face, waving his finger more and a long rant, ending in 'shut the F up'. I then said, in a louder voice 'do not speak to me like that' again and walked away.

Now for a bit of background, he is my friend's husband and I love her dearly. I find him a bit aggressive and hate him talking down to her all the time, calling her 'larda*se', 'dumb' etc. I see this all the time. He also shouts and screams in her face about the fact that she slept with (in his words) loads of men before they started dating, calling her a 'slag' etc. I have not seen this, but she has told me about it many times. I find this horrible, but then on the flip side, she calls him names too, and they have a very fiery relationship. A lot of the arguments happen after they have both been drinking. We were all drinking last night, he probably had about 4 or 5 and I'd had 2. So I was definitely not drunk, and he didn't appear to be.

To be fair to him, she has never told me that he has hit her, but he most definitely is aggressive in his manner, which I have seen many times, directed at her. I have had to bite my lip when I have seen it happen.

I know that he will be making her life difficult all day today. Probably calling me all sorts of names. And she will just want it sorted for the sake of an easy life.

I have said that if he apologises I will accept it and apologise too (even though I know I did nothing wrong, but for the sake of making her life easier).

However a mutual friend is pressurising me to forget all about it without an apology and put it down to a 'misunderstanding.' To me, if he had said something thoughtless or that could be read one way or another then I probably would, but being told to 'shut the f up' is a pretty difficult thing to misunderstand.

I still love my friend and have told her that it doesn't affect how I feel about her and our friendship. Of course in reality it does, we go to each other's houses once a week or so. And I know he will pressurise her not to see me and say that I am not welcome in his house, as he is quite controlling.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable is asking for an apology before we 'make up'. I think its a case of meeting half way, with him making the first move. What do you think? Should I just 'forget it' and forget about asking for an apology. for the sake of an easy life for my friend?

For a bit of information, I was abused by my father and when her husband was waving a finger in my face and shouting it snapped me straight back to that and it was terrifying. That is why the relatively tempered response, because that it what I was taught to say to people who were doing things that were not acceptable. Does this fact mean that I am over-reacting?

Please do help me, I am torn between holding on to my values and making him realise that is not acceptable to be that aggressive to somebody and trying to make my friend's life easier as I love her?

I wouldn't expect an apology of such a man, but that doesn't mean that you need to pretend nothing happened. Keep a distance from him, be polite but don't open up to him again.

But are you sure that someone was working out individual bills & not dividing it up equally?

That aside,I would have been hard pushed not to have poured a drink over him!

No one has ever spoken to me like that & I really don´t know how I would react!

I don´t think he will apologise.

I´d avoid him as much a poss tbh!

I would have certainly spoken up like you did - just because he speaks to his wife that way, it doesn't mean that he can take such liberties with other women/people. He was rude and dismissive and he could have communicated whatever perspective he had better than that - you were right to call him up on it.

I doubt you will receive an apology from him, though - he seems completely ignorant - and meanwhile, your friend is put in an awkward position. It is awful when you are with somebody and intend to stay that way but your friend/s create tension because they are disapproving of his behaviour. I suppose the role of a friend is to guide but also support whatever decision they make, whether you agree with it or not. Dragging this out until you extract an insincere apology from him isn't going to satisfy you or help your friend, so perhaps just have a quiet word with him and lay it out plainly:

"I know you won't apologise for the other night but I want you to know that I think you were out of line and I'm asking you to ensure you never speak to me like that again or it will cause further problems and tensions. Because [his wife] and I are friends, I would like you and I to draw a line under this."

I would have been fuming. I think you were very restrained. He can't go around talking to women like that!

He is verbally abusive, aggressive and threatening when drinking. I would definitely have no hesitation in reporting the incident to the police because you will be doing your friend a big favour in the long term.

Your friend probably has little confidence left if she has to put up with him, and she has probably 'normalised' his behaviour. If there are any dc involved it is tragic because unless you take action they and he will think it is perfectly acceptable way for a man to behave.

Which will mean a little girl will expect to be treated abysmally too and a little boy will grow up and join the next generation of abusing and bullying men.

Do everyone a favour, write out what happened, get witness statements and go the whole hog. If not you are condoning such behaviour.

Drunk or not imagine if a woman was to speak in the same way to her friend's husband.

It is totally unacceptable and you need to do something, he seriously needs counselling/help/reprogramming.

It won't be long before such behaviour turns violent. The attitude of ignoring it for an easy life and giving in to violent bullying behaviour is as bad as putting the boot in too.

Watching abuse happen to others and doing nothing is spineless and totally wrong.

He is vile! How hideous. I think you would do her a favour by sticking to your guns. He needs a wake-up call.

I am not sure this is a case for the police myself.
I am going against the tide here but I could not be friends with someone who allowed their partner to talk to me like that.
If she needs to lose a friend to find out what a twat he is then so be it. At a push I might still allow her to visit me as long as he didn't come along but I wouldn't step foot in his house again and I wouldn't be offering to apologise.

It could be a matter for the police in a roundabout way - it could be classed as causing harassment/alarm/distress which is a public order offence.

I would only have her visiting my house and I wouldn't go to hers if he was there until he apologised. He was totally out of order and obv things he can abuse everyone in the same manner as he does his wife.

Thanks so much for your replies.

Thankfully he has had the snip - so no worries about children coming into the situation.

I won't be taking it to the police. I don't think it will help anything. Our mutual friend already feels that I am being awkward as it is.

I would never want to lose my friendship with her, as not only do we get on really well, but also I feel that she may need my help at some point to either stand up to him or leave him. And I don't want to abandon her.

Oh, and yes we were definately working out individual bills, my friend was doing the maths and I was running around the table working out what everyone had.

Peoonyposy - your post struck a chord with me. My father abused other littles girls after me (his step daughters) and I carry alot of guilt around that I didn't report him when I was a child and in a way contributed towards it happening to others.

However, I think 1) telling him it was unacceptable at the time and 2) not sweeping it under the carpet because 'you know what he is like' is enough to make a stand that it is not acceptable. And of course I will be there for my friend if she ever needs help/support/advice.

I would never allow my DP to talk to any of my friends like that. But I don't blame her as he controls her.

She has sent me texts today begging me to 'forget it' as she is feeling really ill. All I have done is texted her telling her I still love her and she has nothing to apologise for, but I won't accept being spoken to like that by her DH. I also asked her to come round so we can talk face to face. She hasn't and will only text. Am pretty sure he has been bending her ear all day and it makes me very sad.

I should be able to engineer to get us together at work tomorrow, so hopefully it can be sorted out between us then.

Maybe it will actually force your friend to realise what an agressive idiot her DH is now it has been witnessed by other people. Do you think he perhaps feels threatened by your friendship with his wife?

Yes, most definately he does. Because I pick him up when he calls her names. Nothing major, just, 'don't call her that' or 'she isn't fat' or whatever. I think if I don't I am condoning it. He probably thinks I am an interfering old busybody.

I am also the one who picks her up when they have had a fight and he has left her in the middle of town at 2am. So I guess he knows that I know 'the worst' of their problems and that I don't accept his crap and try to encourage her not to. But I also know ultimately that someone else's idea of a good marriage is not the same as mine. And try not to impose my beliefs on her. Just a base level of self respect really.

He's a bully. Stand up to him, and if he dares to do it again I am sure other people will twig that he is a prize arse. Just keep your cool the more he rants because then he'll look even more ridiculous.

Oh - and never, ever apologise for what happened, no matter what. How dare he?!

Tell your friend you love her and will always be her friend but you will never put up with her hb being rude to you.

There is a line and he crossed it. These men often aren't 'men' enough to apologise for their poor behaviour, but instead will bluster and try to convince themselves and the world that they were the innocent party.

This mutual 'friend' also needs to understand that.

Some men really can't cope with assertive women who call a spade a spade and who don't stand for being walked over.

Good on you.

Heated - 'Tell your friend you love her and will always be her friend but you will never put up with her hb being rude to you'.

That is exactly what I have done, (almost word for word!) - sadly only by text as she is 'too stressed' to come over and chat face to face (I worry that text can be mis-understood and that DH is standing by the phone listening to any conversation).

So, until we speak face to face (hopefully at work tomorrow) then I can't properly get her to understand this I don't think.

Out of interest what does your dp say? I take it he wasn't there?

Nope, he wasn't there. If he was then friend's DH would not have dared talk to me like that.

My DP will do whatever I ask to support me, but I think friend's DH needs to learn that a woman can stick up for herself.

My DP thinks he is a cock too, but generally puts up with him in social situations much as I do.

DP thinks he was out of order but thinks I will be waiting a long time for any kind of apology - which is true.

I am due to go round to my friend and her DHs for tea on my birthday on Tuesday next week. I am very grateful my DP will be there for support.

If need be I will go to a restaurant instead, with or without friend and her DH. Up to him to figure out if he can act grown up or not. But I could certainly think of other people I would prefer to spend my birthday with!

Seems like you and dp have truly got the measure of him. Shame your friend hasn't.

Hope the birthday meal goes well.

Shock horror! I just got a text from him with a kind of apology....

'I can hear [his wife/my friend] on phone to [other friend] and she is really upset. I have never seen her like this. I am sorry if you got upset last night. Please can we move on as I can't bear to see her this upset, she is literally being ill with all the worry.'

I replied 'OK. I accept that. No hard feelings. We can both forget about it. Tell [friend] I love her and to get in contact when she can, as it sprobably easier to talk face to face rather than via text.'

Once again I feel guilt tripped and as if I am the one causing trouble.

All I have texted her today is 'you don't need to apologise to me. You haven't done anything wrong. He needs to say sorry though as I won't accept someone shouting in my face. Ever. After he says sorry I can forget about it, for your sake. I will always love you and be your friend no matter what. Pop round and we can tlak face to face instead of via text. xx'.

Now why would that cause her to be ill with worry? Its HIM bitching and moaning all day that has made her ill with worry. GRRRR.

But will have to keep to my word and 'accept' the apology, for her sake only.

So, hopefully, a 'happy ending'. I have a feleing he won't be so rude to me again, as to if he alters his behaviour towards her.... we will see.

It's the best you're going to get with this man. Yours was a very gracious reply and he ought to be thankful. He's going to be wary of you now though!

The joys of texts - are you sure it was from him and not her sending it from his phone. Or maybe I am just too cynical.

CaurnieBred has a point. The language in that text doesn't square with the aggressive, unpleasant, verbally-abusive guy you've described.

Then you know she'll be getting it in the neck because of you.

She'll want you to drop it and forget about it because if you don't he's going to take it out on her.

And the cycle continues.

I once had a guy threaten me in an ugly, menacing way while his poor downtrodden girlfriend and her dc watched, she was pleading quietly with him to leave me alone. The dc looked frightened but were obviously used to him acting like that, as she was.

I was utterly stunned to be in that situation, (in a public park)but I kept calm and dialled 999 while the rant turned from me to a grandfather who witnessed the whole thing and who also intervened on my behalf.

Everyone wanted me to forget about it but I knew to do that I was condoning his behaviour and also I wanted to make sure it was on his record should anything ever happen to his gf or her dc.

Later, the grandfather was very reluctant to give me his tel. no. and and address in case this thug turned on him, but I insisted and he agreed.

As a result, the police came round to my house to take my statement, the grandfather gave a statement as my witness and the thug was prosecuted and fined.

I feel very glad we didn't let him get away with it, but it did take a lot of courage. I might add he didn't actually hit me but he was menacing, abusive and threatening.(Nothing more than the fact I had quietly pointed out he should not bring his two large dogs into the children's playground as it was a clear 'no dogs' signed area).

If he attacks anyone else (and statistically it is highly likely to be a wife/gf/their dc) then I'm very proud to have helped him on his way to get the treatment he desperately needs, anger management or prison which a record like this will help secure.

Don't let your poor friend's sickness waver you from the path you know is only right.

He is a total danger to himself and others, you are needed to help secure his first conviction as that is the best way to protect your friend in the long term.

Not to do anything? It might help your friend out in the short term but in the long term you will be helping secure her a lifetime of bullying, abuse and quite possibly death.

Think I'm exaggerating?

When abusive men are so confident and successful with their techniques that leave women and dc submissive, frightened, and trying to appease in everyway, there is no reason for them to keep the treatment behind closed doors.

This behaviour spills out in a public domain because the abuser exercises power over others as he believes he is in the right.

He is used to women cowtowing. Your correct response to him in his eyes is not to answer back, and to do as you are told.

You would have inflamed him not to do as you were told.

He will be badmouthing you to the high heavens because of your audacity, he may even ban your friend from seeing you, or give her a hard time if she does.

You know very well what to do. Not to report him would be tantamount to assigning her life to one of abject misery because she is in no position to help herself.

Everyday many more women than you think are murdered by their violent partners and if you don't help the process of at least letting the police know about him you will never forgive yourself if something indeed happened.

Being steeadfast about your course of action would also be a signal to your friend that she should not be treated like that and that if she can't help herself you will have to do it for her for her own good.

And I would also compile a dossier of all what has happened to her over the years.

Does anyone seriously believe that just because he's not allowed to bully you it is all ok?

What about what your poor friend has to put up with because of him?

Quite honestly the police have a right to know if your friend is suffering domestically.

His behaviour is unacceptable and you have a moral duty to do what you can to protect her even if she can't protect herself.

Good advice Peony and well done for what you did.

Duke you are such a brilliant friend to this woman. I would dearly love to have such a fantastic friend as you. Good luck.