Have I said the right thing to DH?

[mampam]

I'm sorry but this is another thread about inlaws. I have posted about them on here in the past. To give you a bit of back ground:

We used to rent a house next door to ILs (owned by them). Needless to say we didn't get on living in close proximity, with MIL doing everything she could to get rid of me and ended with FIL shouting at me and calling me names when DH told his parents we were moving out. FIL refused to apologise for his outburst. 4 months later DH and I got married and ILs ignored me all day and FIL wouldn't stand near me when having photo's taken. This all happened nearly 3 years ago and in that time we haven't had much to do with them. ILs have even walked in the opposite direction when I've crossed over the street to the same side as them.

There are lots of other things but too long to list. Needless to say they are the classic examples of Toxic parents/ILs and have even stooped so low as to tell DH's grandparents (who live 300 miles away and know no different) that FIL had had a serious operation on the tendons in his arm, knowing that they would tell DH. The funny thing was we saw FIL riding his motorbike the day after the supposed operation. Surely he wouldn't be able to ride a bike after an operation on the tendons in your arm???
This is one of many illnesses IL's have supposedly had, there have been heart conditions, possible leg amputations, nervous breakdowns to name but a few, all told to DH by members of his family who live hundreds of miles away.

All DH has ever wanted from his parents is an apology for the way they have behaved towards us (especially at our wedding) and has given them opportunity after opportunity and low and behold...nothing!

I am now pregnant and we have both agreed that DH should at least let his parents know, for one thing they won't be able to play the victims to the rest of DH's family as they are so good at doing.

I have however said to DH that personally, am very wary(sp?) of having anything to do with them again(I have always let DH know that I have no problem with him having a relationship with his parents). I nearly had a breakdown when we lived next door to them and don't want to leave myself open to that kind of bullying again. DH understands this and totally agrees.

I have also said to him to think very carefully about what sort, if any, kind of a relationship he wants with his parents and not to get his hopes up because I don't think they will ever give him the apology that he so wants from them. By telling them that we are having a baby may open up the channels of communication again. I have told him to be on his guard bearing in mind how manipulative they are and not to expect too much, that way he won't be dissappointed and that I will support him with whatever he decides to do.

Have I said the right things?? Is there anything that you think I could add?? DH is currently thinking over how he is going to tell them.

Hi mampam,

re your comment:-

"The grandparents have been told what ILs have done but they make excuses for them and I don't really think they believe it"

This is a common scenario played out within such a dysfunctional family. It never fails to amaze me how other relatives gang up against the person/s on the receiving end of the other's toxic behaviour. Also these problems can and do become generational as well. GPs as well need a scapegoat and you two fit the bill well. They don't want to know and what they are "happy" too about is that you're directly getting the ILs toxic behaviour instead of them.

If you have not read "Toxic Inlaws" to date I suggest you do so.

I would keep well away from all of them and have no contact with any of them whatsoever. It will just bring trouble back into your lives. Just concentrate instead on the people who actually make you feel good inside instead.

Wise words ATM. Exactly what I have done and I am a happier person for it and my DD is safe from harm.

Very wise words Attila, I know what you are saying and believe it but how do I convince DH? I don't want to force my opinions onto him although I do believe I have the right to voice them and for him to listen.

I have tried to get hold of Toxic Inlaws and Toxic Parents but to no avail. They never seem to be in stock or 2nd hand copies seem to be mega bucks.

Lighthouse, you are so strong sticking to your guns. I tend to stick to mine but I always end up feeling so guilty. I don't want people thinking badly of us for not telling ILs. They are so good at acting the victims to others and we are always portrayed as the bad guys. I know I shouldn't care what others think.

This is just a horrible horrible situation to be in.

I am sure it is but sod what everyone else thinks, this is your life and your marriage. It has caused a huge rift in our marriage DH and I nearly split up over it once. FIL is poison.

As long as you and hubby are strong that is all that matters.

Congrats on your pregnancy, and I can tell you are a super mum mampam.

However, it sounds like your DH has been labeled the Black Sheep and a Scapegoat in his family.

It is a difficult situation, and I would advise a group email with all addresses visible, to break your lovely news.

Then I would have no contact with the Outlaws. These people sound really dangerous.

If your Dh is really lonely for family, remind him he still has cousins,(there must be another black sheep somewhere) but that it looks like he's not going to get anything from his parents or GPs.

It is a shame, when a family goes bad: but it happens, a lot of the posters here have said very sensible things, having been through the mill themselves, and you both need to protect the family you have.

Don't think about it too much, and enjoy your life with those whom you love! You are blessed actually. Your Dh sounds great. Congrats again.

FIL ropes his sister in and they both pick on other members of the family. They then intimidate one of the cousins and bribe her with the promise of money as she is on her own with 3 kids. She wanted to go to the wedding of another black sheep within the family but was told she would be disowned if she did.

It might well be that other members of your family are putting up with the same.

sounds like you can't win with these people.

i would suggest making no direct contact and they'll find out from relatives.

if they decide to buck up their ideas after receiving the news then let them do the running.

i would be seeking out any contact with them until i saw hard evidence that they were willing to be civil and respectful towards you.

zazen, thanks for saying I'm 'a super mum', that's brought a tear to my eye (damn pregnancy hormones!!). Thank you that has really made my day

I don't think DH and I can ignore the facts and maybe I'll have to remind him of them.
His parents:

Tried anything they could to come between us and split us up.

They have been openly nasty about my DC's

They created an awful, embarrassing atmosphere at our wedding to which thats the main people remember when talking about it.

They are manipulative of us and other members of the family.

They have lied about illnesses just to try and guilt DH into talking to them again.

This is a small part of a long list of things they have done. They won't change.

But one thing I don't understand is, DH has written letters to them and told them he wants no more to do with them, so why nearly 3 years down the line are they still trying it on? Have they not got the message?

The most recent things have been in September we went and visited the grandparents (we weren't staying with them) and when I was out of the room GF started on DH saying he should stop this stupidity because in the end it won't benefit him as he will do himself out of an inheritance (ILs quite wealthy and have tried to buy off DH in the past) and that MIL was going to come around to our house with the money for a deposit for a house but she was scared she would get the door slammed in her face!!

It's funny how MIL was suddenly going to stump up for a deposit when a couple of days previous to that GM was telling me how DH and I were wasting money renting our house and I had said we were only renting because we couldn't afford a deposit on our own house!!

DHs response to his GF was that 'he will make his own way in life and not rely on handouts thank you very much!!'.

These people will try anything. They are going to find out that I'm pregnant whether we tell them or not as we only live about 5 miles away from them. It's a small rural community and everyone knows everyone. Thats if I don't bump into them, literally!!!!

Lighthouse, it's interesting what you are saying about black sheep. That family is full of them!! DH's uncle(FILs brother) and his eldest son fell out, what happened was between them but the grandparents hounded the cousin so much that he has now dropped off the radar and has nothing to do with any of them.

MIL has a sister and a brother. Her and her sister (who is even more poisonous than MIL) basically took control of their fathers finances and cut the brother out of everything even down to taking all the valuable antiques in the house, selling them to keep the money for themselves and letting the brother go and have a pick of one of the less valuable items. The brother being the black sheep all stems from the fact that his parents weren't happy with him because he married a black woman.

Hi mampam,

www.play.com has "Toxic Parents" and "Toxic Inlaws in stock currently. ALso they are very reasonably priced (less than a tenner each). Your DH in particular really could do with reading "Toxic Parents" as a starting point.

Re your comment also:-

"But one thing I don't understand is, DH has written letters to them and told them he wants no more to do with them, so why nearly 3 years down the line are they still trying it on? Have they not got the message?"

Well no and its because they do not want to relinquish control of him. This is all about power and control. They will never let up on you two, the only way forward here is to completely cut them all off from your lives. They will bring nothing positive into your child's life either.

I never thought to look on play.com. I have been trying Amazon and Waterstones.

Yes I know that cutting them all off is the only way forward but it's DH that doesn't. He tends to think about all the good times from years ago rather than thinking about what has happened in more recent years. He seems to live in some kind of nostalgic fantasy land. Will reading 'Toxic Parents' help him do you think?

I do think at the end of the day I do not want/need to be stressed out during this pregnancy, we have a baby to look after and nurture and DH will have to take that into account when making his decision about this matter.

I like the suggestions of round robin Christmas letter with the news about the baby (congrats!). Don't say anything about meeting or even a specific date, as that might give a schedule for their interference.

The grandparents may have been "taken in" by your DH's parents, but is that because DH has allowed the parents to be the ones who tell them things? If he (DH) were a bit more proactive and talked to them, they would get his (and your) side as well - NOT addressing his parents' stories, just talking normally about life and your/GPs' news before the parents can poison anything. More importantly, they would realise it is less exhausting being in contact with people who aren't constantly ill (even if they believe the illnesses are real, that doesn't mean they aren't exhausting to hear about), complaining and so on. I'm sure your husband can be more pleasant than his parents, and will shortly impress his grandparents as such. It's worth a try!

All because he married a black woman

Really bad, behaviour. Sod the lot of them I say but I guess that is more difficult for your DH as they are his parents.

I don't speak to FIL but he sees DD and DH not very often now as DH is away a bit too and I don't take DD to see FIL when he away.

If he doesn't want to give them up then at least you should have the right to say you don't want to see them, and your DH should respect that decision and the same with seeing the baby. If you feel your child is at risk don't let it happen and again DH should respect that decision. Mine did but grudgingly.

I am very sorry for you. You sound very sensible and nice in the middle of what is a dreadful situation. At least your DH is supportive - it would be intolerable otherwise. Whatever you do, just get strength from each other and I hope it doesn't spoil your pregnancy too much.

Lighthouse, I'm sorry your DH has only supported you 'grudgingly' but at least he has. You read so often on MN about the husbands who won't stand up to their families and support their partners. Sometimes I think that the husbands don't want to cut the apron strings as much as their mothers/fathers. This was certainly the case with my DH to begin with. It was all new territory to him as he had never been allowed to stand on his own two feet before.

DH is going to send the Christmas cards to his family tomorrow, all saying the same thing "Just to let you know, Mampam and I are expecting a baby next May".
He is going to send his parents the same card as they will find out anyway even if he doesn't tell them and this way it will stop them being able to play the sympathy card to the rest of the family. It will also keep the rest of the family off his back too.

I suppose we just sit back and hope there are no repercussions!!!

ILs will probably just say that they didn't get the card you know. An Email would be better with all addresses visable then atleast the GPs would see that you did indeed let them know.

Thats true Xaveilli, I suppose they could turn around and pretend not to have received a card but unfortunately we don't know their email address or any of the other members of the family for that matter.

Think I'll get a proof of posting at the Post Office!!

"Yes I know that cutting them all off is the only way forward but it's DH that doesn't. He tends to think about all the good times from years ago rather than thinking about what has happened in more recent years. He seems to live in some kind of nostalgic fantasy land. Will reading 'Toxic Parents' help him do you think?"

Hi mampam,

re your above comment.

I think that reading TP will help your DH but he may not actually want to fully acknowledge the real problems re his family at this time. All their behaviours have probably come as a huge shock for him as he never realised they could be capable of such cruelty.

Good luck with regards to them because short of cutting them all off I do not think you have heard the last of them at all. Somehow the ante will be upped again, probably on emotional blackmail lines and possibly too soon after your child is born.

Yes, I know this is far from over and that we haven't heard the last of them yet. I'm quite worried about what will happen when the baby is born and I have a history of PND and anxiety. I'm only just getting to grips with the panic attacks that were brought on when FIL came shouting at me that time, he frightened the life out of me and ever since then I have suffered with them. That was nearly 3 years ago, since then I have had counselling and CBT and I've only just, in recent months, started to grips with it.

Oh God, this is so difficult. DH doesn't seem to want to talk about it right now.

Wow a good deal of that sounded awfully familiar! I have similarly abusive In-laws (a term I find more appropriate than toxic tbh) Though they haven't been so openly abusive towards me as to you, (pehaps because I'm a man?) they certainly have never considered me part of their Daughter's life. Ironically this upsets my partner much more than me, as tbh I don't like them much either. I have been very friendly for almost 10 years now though so I figure it's not me, really, and I can avoid taking it personally.

The Toxic Parents book certainly helped my fiance, not least by pointing out the behaviours that are not normal. Having grown up with them, she simply thought this was how people behaved. It has been a long hard process for her to normalise her world view, and it sounds like your DH is well on his way down this path himself. Like others have, I would recommend it.

Recorded (and signed for) post is the way to go for the Christmas announcement (Congratulations btw! :D ) it doesn't cost too much for the peace of mind that tracking page brings!

As for trying it on after 3 years? They cannot bear to be contradicted so they ignore it. They feel they cannot be wrong so they persist, believing that your DH will "See sense" eventually. Your mention of the apology strikes a chord with me too; we have had a similar one, and an apology without admitting any wrongdoing is no apology at all, it is lip service at best.

Your DH is probably very emotional atm; and if he's anything like me he is dealing with it poorly! It sounds like you have been incredibly patient with him, and he will need more of that. I'm sure you are right not to push him too hard: his parents would capitalise on that.

Basically the above wall of text was meant to just say: I feel for what you're going through. It has taken us nearly 10 years to progress to where you are now, so don't sell yourselves short. You're doing great, you are making a huge difference to your DH in overcoming his abusive parents, so hang in there.

Grubbyfoot, thank you so much. It sounds as if you have done a good job of supporting and helping your DP come to terms with her 'abusive' parents too.

It's very interesting what you say about your DP having to 'normalise her world view', this is the same for my DH as, the more time goes by, the more he is realising for himself that the world according to his parents when he was growing up isn't necessarily the gospel truth. For instance the way that they portrayed and the things that they have said about other family members (especially the ones that they do not like), DH has since found to be totally untrue.

I do however think that DH is still in partial denial.

It's also interesting to hear it from a male point of view. You say that you can 'avoid taking it personally'. I think it's true that women are more emotional about these things. I find it very difficult not to take it to heart and have, in the past, questioned myself as to what is 'wrong with me'. I have at times felt so guilty, it's because ILs hate me so much that DH cannot have a relationship with his parents.

I have also found it hard to understand DHs actions in the past because I have my ups and downs with my own mother and we have fallen out on many occasions but our differences are between myself and my mum. She doesn't bring anyone else into it but if she ever treated DH the way that ILs have treated me I would never have anything to do with her again. However, I am lucky. I have an older DB to whom I can turn to and together over the years we have come to terms with the way our mum is and the rest of my family also know what my mum can be like so I don't have extra pressure from them like DH does. He is effectively on his own.

I think this whole saga is far from over, which just fills me with dread.