Staying together when one partner has been unfaithful

[TellItLikeItIs]

I would like your honest opinions please.

Can you imagine a scenario where you would agree to stay together for the sake of the children, or losing your family home, lifestyle etc, knowing that your H had been unfaithful, possibly more than once?

Do people really do it, especially in this day and age?

And I don't mean a situation where a partner's affair has been discovered and the couple have agreed to "try again".

yeah tiredoftherain, if there was a huge web of lies spanning a lot of time I don't think I would be able to deal with it long term...but if it seemed like an impulsive 'mid life crisis' type thing, maybe i could...it all depends.

I know SO many couples where EVERYONE but the wife knows what the H is up to...i do think a lot of women either don't care or don't want to know. And to some extent who am I to criticise that- it works for them.

Doesn't stop me being grossed out by the men who seem to have a massive sense of entitlement to do what they like and even brag about it to other men- urgh.

Have been thinking about this and have some thoughts.

If the affair/affairs were a long time ago - even if they involved a huge web of lies - would it be right to still split up the family? Especially if she was sure there were none going on now.

Say a wife did find out about affairs that she really had no idea about - what could she do?

She could end the marriage with all the hurt that entails for herself and her dc. Or she could choose not to act but make sure she tells her h that if ever he crossed that line again she would tell all.
The only trouble with that is it sounds a bit like blackmail doesnt it?
Would she think he was only staying with her so as not to have to own up to what he had done in the past?

Sorry to disappear but lots of interesting thoughts. This is about someone I know, who is indeed pretty well off and if divorced would not have the same kind of lifestyle, and neither would the children.

Her H has had one affair in the past and is now having another, and I think she knows, but is turning a blind eye.

I just find this quite incomprehensible - how could you even bear to look at your partner knowing they had done it - or perhaps I just don;t know how I would feel or react in the situation.

Remember that a marriage is about a lot more than "being in love" (whatever that means as Prince Charles would say). Even the most emotionally driven person does not get into a marriage or long term relationship involving children without a few practical considerations - three will always be an inner dialogue weighing up things like: looks, money, family, psychological makeup, sex appeal, compatibility, past history, future goals, careers etc, etc.

Being in love and having sex are only part of the package. You only have to go back a few hundred years, and even now in certain cultures, and love was considered the most dangerous reason for a marriage. Marriage was for financial, social and other reasons and to fulfil other obligations like bringing up children in a stable environment.

If you remove the in love and sex aspects from a marriage, most of the other aspects still exist and are bloody important - eg: financial security, compatibility etc.

I personally know of many people who have turned a blind eye to infidelity, even repeatedly, as they have weighed up the pros and cons of the situation with regard to children, finances and, ulitimately, the fact that they would rather be with that partner, even if unfaitful, than not. Sometimes infidelity almost comes with the package (eg: rich, charismatic man with loads of sex appeal) - up to each and every person to decide what works for them, in my opinion.

I think it is very niave to imagine that getting a divorce necessarily solves any of one's problems - often just creates new ones, along with all the old ones.

I agree with butterballs 100%

"Being in love and having sex are only part of the package. You only have to go back a few hundred years, and even now in certain cultures, and love was considered the most dangerous reason for a marriage. Marriage was for financial, social and other reasons and to fulfil other obligations like bringing up children in a stable environment."

This view could, indeed should, be cut-and-pasted into so many threads on Mumsnet.

Can I join your fan club!

it is the secrecy of affairs that destroys the marriage not the actual sex part.

OP - your friend who you feel is turning a blind eye - do you think she actaully knows?

Does her h think she knows? I bet the ow thinks the wife does not know - that is what makes affairs seem exciting - the ow somehow being better than the wife.

And that is why i feel so many wifes hate the ow - not because of the actual sex but because of all the above.

Thank you dejavue, need members in my fan club as my views seem to be considered quite, ahem, radical!! To be honest, I am just very practical and adopt the 'devil you know' along with the 'what you don't know doesn't hurt you' and the 'you only live once' philosopy with a touch of 'monogamy can be monotony' thrown in!!

In practice, I am too risk-adverse to have affairs and could not cope with them on an emotional level plus I would hate all the sneaking around and lying stuff. Having said that, I do know of people who have reasonably good marriages and have still have discreet other relationships, for whatever reasons - I think having no sex at all at home is a legitimate reason, for instance.

I totally agree that the boasting aspect of infidelity is deeply unattractive however I do think that in some instances it is better for couples to stay together where one or both has a discreet "other relationship" then go through the hell of a divorce, where often wounded pride or unresolved problems play a part, particularly if children are involved.

Not ideal ofcourse but just look how many people are unhappy in relationships and/or divorced or separated? Who is to say what model is best?

I would also like to join Butterballs' fan club.

"I think it is very niave to imagine that getting a divorce necessarily solves any of one's problems- often just creates new ones, along with the old ones".

Agree with this 100%. If you have children together, you are stuck with your ex to a large extent, but divorce means you see less of your children and are poorer.

I think it's such a shame (and a waste) to feel like this, when it is possible to have it all. Butterballs asks what is the best model? Assuming we're referring to monogamous relationships with children (those where both parties have agreed to be monogamous) I'd say the best model is one where there is compatibility in all the areas Butterball cites as being important in a marriage and love and sex. Monogamy does not have to be monotonous at all.

I agree that too many people ditch their marriages for the sake of lust, but I cannot see that "discreet affairs" are the answer either. "What you don't know doesn't hurt you" is I'm afraid, a complete myth. Men and women are often so rubbish at compartmentalising when they have an affair that the primary partner does hurt very much indeed - it's just that they don't know why they are feeling sad, unhappy and unsettled.

I also fundamentally disagree that raising children in a marriage where the intimacy has gone between the parents, is healthy or provides them with a stable environment. Children really notice this too, especially when they are in their teenage years and see the differences in the way their friends' parents are with one another - my H remembers feeling profoundly sad that his best friend's parents were so loving to one another and his were not. It is a very powerful memory for him. We were discussing this recently, because a couple of our kids' friends have made similar comments at the difference in their own parents' marriage - my daughter was told that she was "so lucky" to have parents who are still in love.

People often think that as long as they are not having rows and appear to co-exist peacefully, this is enough of a good example to children. It really isn't enough though.

I am not saying that divorce is any better though (and can quite see that it is often worse for all parties) but there is a "third way". Even marriages that have lacked intimacy for years can be rekindled - divorcing or getting sex from elsewhere are not the only options.

Trundling along in a marriage that works well as a business arrangement, but which lacks passion, sounds like a kind of hell to me, as is living in a marriage where the only barrier to being unfaithful is because "I couldn't be arsed with it." If both partners are actually feeling like that, it is the perfect breeding ground for one or both of you to have an affair - and however much you might say now that if that happened, you would both be sensible and see it for what it was - a form of escapism and fulfilling an unmet need, it is impossible to predict how any of us would react in those circumstances.

At the extreme end, you or your H might fall in love with the affair partner - and want to leave the marriage; you might hurt the affair partner deeply because you cannot control how deep their feelings will go. As soon as you cross the line with someone else, there is always a risk that one or both of the parties will develop strong feelings.

Saying you would "turn a blind eye" if your partner had a discreet affair ignores two painful possibilities. First, you might not get the choice - he might fall in love and want to leave you anyway and secondly, however much you think you will be able to live with it, it is rather different when it actually happens.

I read posts on here all the time from people convincing themselves that their passionless marriages are just fine and that they are being terribly grown-up and sanguine about not rocking the boat - and either not needing sex, passion and intimacy, or thinking it's acceptable to get those needs met outside the marriage, as long as it's "discreet". I would however contend that this is actually more naive - naive to think that people won't get hurt, naive to think that all parties are immune from falling in love, naive to think that this is best for children and naive to think that a marriage is really going to last when one or both of the parties is having such fundamental needs unmet.

Consequently - and in relation to the OP's question - I have no idea how anyone can continue in a marriage where the sex and intimacy has been contracted out to someone else - no amount of financial stability and status would be enough to bring my kids up in such an arid environment and with such a crap example of a marriage.

Totally agree WhenwillIFeelNormal in a lot of ways the worst part of dh's affair was the time when as far as he was concerned he was "being discreet". I've shared this experience with many others and it is a common experience. This is a totally bullshit concept used by those who are deliberately betraying their spouses to make themselves feel better. It goes hand in had with the inner dialogue that says that your spouse is totally unreasonable/unloving etc etc, and is all part of propping up the self esteem of the adulterer, who otherwise knows that they are behaving in a despicable manner. Yes of course sometimes it comes out of the blue to find your partner is deceiving you, but it very often doesn't. For the OP perhaps it is important to understand how much when you are being deceived you desperately want to believe that you are not, and if you have a spouse that wants to hide things from you then you have a lot of mind games going on.

I can't really understand whenwillifeelnormal's post, unless it is in the context of having been betrayed and managing to forgive and rekindle the love? (sorry, haven't read all the posts).

Surely if you've been betrayed it's not always possible to wave a magic wand and feel in love with that person again. Sometimes just peaceful cohabiting is as good as it's going to get, unless you take a leap of faith and divorce, but as has been said, this comes with its own set of problems.

Whose to say that whenwillifeelnormal's DH wouldn't have suffered trauma or had bad memories if his unhappy parents had actually got divorced in his childhood, his parents probably did the best that they could in the circumstances.

I'll join the Butterballs fanclub too.

I think it's very dangerous to make a blanket statement that because someone has an affair they are a cheating bastard etc..kick him/her out immediately.

Marriage is complex and human emotion is complex.

I love my husband to bits but have to admit that sometimes I feel bored, stuck and fed up. I have had the opportunity to have an affair, and weighed up the risk to my marriage, my family and took the decision that I couldn't do it.

I didn't tell dh, but I'm sure he's thought the same thing. We respect each other not to discuss it, but also acknowledge that we are each individuals with different needs at different times of our lives.

Being a grownup is all about choices - making the right choices so as not to hurt other people or yourself. If that involves discreet affairs that might actually strengthen a marriage, then I'm going to take a radical approach and say that is up to the individual.

I agree that couples can recover from an affair and I'm also uncomfortable with the "one strike and he's out" notion. However - and on this I am absolutely resolute - forgiving only works properly if the couple learn to communicate better about the needs that were being unmet and which provided the conditions for the affair to happen in the first place.

We've got to be honest about the boredom that often assails long-term marriages - pretending that we're invulnerable to the attentions of someone else is dishonest. Saying you've got too much respect for eachother to even discuss this is flawed thinking, in my view. It is actually much healthier to acknowledge the vulnerability and then do everything you can as a couple to shake things up and make sure that you're not going to be tempted in the future.

If you really think your marriage is not strong enough to survive that sort of honest conversation, then I'd suggest you've got problems anyway. I think a lot of affairs happen because couples pretend with each other that they would never be tempted etc. when evidently, that is not true. We are all human and open to temptation - pretending otherwise, especially to each other, is not going to stop the temptation happening.

Affairs, discreet or otherwise, never strengthen a marriage - they weaken it. Honesty after an affair often strengthens a marriage, but honesty before it would have been a much less painful route.

"I have no idea how anyone can continue in a marriage where the sex and intimacy has been contracted out to someone else - no amount of financial stability and status would be enough to bring my kids up in such an arid environment and with such a crap example of a marriage."

Well said, whenwillI! I've left a marriage where I was very financially comfortable but no amount of financial security compensated for what was lacking elsewhere. I couldn't put up with a loveless marriage simply for the practicalities but do appreciate it's a really personal decision, you need to do what suits you and your relationship.

'Affairs, discreet or otherwise, never strengthen a marriage - they weaken it.'

I just think that's a blanket statement wwifn.

Not that I particularly like the idea for my own marriage but I've seen far too many others go on after affairs and women (in particular) turning a blind eye because they want the house, the kids, the security of being a family.

I have even heard several women say they don't care at all what their H does when he's away- one of my friends even said 'well if he's up to that at least he isn't bothering me'?!

you may argue these are 'crap marriages' and you may be right, but there are an awful, awful lot of them. If all those poor cheated-on partners got up and left the divorce rate would be through the roof and no one would approve of that.

I speak as someone going through an absolutely hellish divorce atm for what H perceived to be my infidelity (I disagree with him that it was, because we were separated...but the debate goes on). I often find myself wishing I'd just put up and shut up, pretended I fancied H, not been honest about everything. I would not then be bringing up my kids in such a vile and miserable atmosphere of loss and mutual dislike (and yes I do try to keep it from the kids, though I'm not sure he does).

Goth - just because there are a lot of marriages like this doesn't mean that they are strong though, does it? I have never known a single couple have a stronger marriage after undiscovered, or unaddressed infidelity. Stronger for discovery and new honesty, yes absolutely.

As for this statement: 'well if he's up to that at least he isn't bothering me' - this implies that your friend has given up on having a sex life and is quite happy for someone else to take up the slack. She might be overlooking her own needs in this - unless asexual, most of us need a regular fulfilling sex life. I cannot understand why women regard sex with their husbands as "bother" - and if they do, why they don't address it. Wouldn't work for me at all, but my sexual needs are really important to me.

Goth, I've read your threads and although I understand why you must sometimes feel this way, it seems to me that things had deteriorated to such an extent for you that there was no way back. I don't see how you could have faked it at all and suspect you would have been thoroughly miserable - what ever your kids are going through now, having a miserable, unhappy Mum and Dad for years, would have been awful for them. I hope it works out for you and your children in time - having seen your posts it's always seemed to me that your life (and your kids') will be much better in the long run. Living a lie never works, in my experience.