making the break or keep trying (sorry really long)

[timetoleave]

I'm a regular but name changed as dh knows my posting name and the last time I posted about us he read it and it caused problems.

I'm really unhappy in our marriage. I'm quite sure he is too. We put up a really good front for other people though, and for our dc. We have alot of good times as a family with our dc- they are absolutley everthing to us. The problem is I'm quite sure they're the only reason we're still together.

If I was to ask him, dh would say he loves me. I do love him but I think we've lost our friendship. He has no interest in anything I do or say. I'm having a horrible time at work just now and am a bit worried about money- (we're not loaded but have been quite 'comfortable' this year but all of a sudden a couple of unexpected things have happened and moneys really tight), and it's really getting to me. When I got upset yesterday while on the phone to him, he got angry at me. He gives me no emotional support, just gets upset with me when I need it. He apologised in the evening but then basically said it was fault for getting upset. Then he went in a mood with me for going upstairs to sort some washing rather than sit and watch rubbish on tv with him in silence.

We have a really bad sex life, and I take full responsibility for that. I have no sex drive atall so we only have sex every couple of months. I don't want to have sex with someone who can't stand to talk to me. I'd love it if he'd hug me occasionally, or give me a kiss, but the only time he wants to touch is if it will lead to sex. I think it's a vicious circle. He says if we have sex more he'll want to speak to me more and be with me more. I need him to do these things before we have sex more.

We don't even really argue any more- he was in a hell of a mood last night and I just couldn't be bothered. Normally I'd call him on it and it would lead to an argument, but I don't have the energy. I just left him to get on with it. We've had some awful fights before. The last one, months ago, almost ended in us splitting up. We only sorted it as he moved out for a couple of days and ds1 was absolutly devestated. Neither of us could stand to see him like that.

Basically on a day to day level we muddle along. As I said we have great fun with the children. Another 10 years and they'll be totally independant and I keep thinking 'if we could just make the effort until then'. But there's another part of me that thinks I can't last much longer feeling invisible and only here for the mudane day to day things. But then again I do love him and don't want us to give up. He seems so unhappy too, but he won't talk about 'us'. I've tried writing to him but he's just not interested.

So long. Sorry. And thankyou if you've had the patience to read it. I just really wanted to get it all out- I have noone to really talk to. My friends all think he's lovely- and he is to them, and that we're going through 'a bad patch'. This bad patch has lasted years. I want to be loved and appreciated. He said once I never show him I love him, and I said I show him every day by listening to him, doing things for him, and trying to make him happy. He doesn't think that's showing love. I'm so unhappy and exhausted and I don't know what to do anymore.

I am so sorry you feel like this. Although it can be quite depressing reading hundreds of variations on the same basic scenario in Mumsnet the same advice applies almost everytime.

You need to talk - what are the issues (take turns, no interuptions) what would you like to see change ((take turns, no interuptions)and so on.

Have you asked him what he thinks 'showing love' is? Serious question here.

I agree with you that you need more affection before you'll be more willing for sex - but this issue is incredibly common. I think men and women just view this differently.

I had a similar patch with sex with my DH for a few years (although the rest of our relationship was fine, oddly enough) I wanted him to show affection without it automatically meaning sex; he got to a point where he would push every opening I gave him because he felt it was his only opportunity. It was a vicious circle.

Agree with previous poster, the only solution is for you both to sit down and clear the air. If you can't find common ground, it's already over, I'm afraid.

Thankyou both for reading.

He won't talk to me about our relationship. I've tried several times- he sees it as nagging. I've tried to approach it differently- rather than I'm not happy, can we talk, I've said I can see you're not happy. Would you tell me whats wrong. He always says nothing, and if I push it he gets angry, then I get upset, then he yells about 'turning on the waterworks' and trying to 'guilt trip' him.

Ginnybag, I think he does mean sex when he says I don't show him I love him. I've read so many posts with advice of ' the more you do it the more you'll want it', but I guess I feel resentful about having to have sex to get any kind of affection. Maybe he feels resentful about showing affection if it's not going to go anywhere. I don't know.

I resent that I do so much for him and get nothing back. I'm the one making all the bloody effort to make this work.

Sorry- have gone from yesterdays tears to full on anger today. So glad I can vent on here.

It's a rock and a hard place sort of situation, I know. I've always wondered why no-one ever says 'it's okay to just not want sex. It can feel damn lonely when everyone encourages you put your issues aside and just do it anyway, on the theory that then you'll want to more.

I went a good couple of years not wanting to know and it did cause problems. I remember tensing every time my DH laid a hand on me because I was scared to death that it was always going to lead to another push for more, and then another row.

I remember being pregnant and being grateful that I had a legitimate reason to say no without feeling guilty all the time... and it was that space that saved us I think.

There's no easy fix for this... so many men depend on physical affection for their certainty of love that they react very poorly when it's withdrawn without ever realising they are. And they simply don't get that what seems like a simple, natural expression (that happens to be fun) to them means something else entirely to us. It's a bit of basic mis-wiring that makes me think mother nature has a sick sense of humour.

I had to sit down with my DH, explain that I felt pressured every time he touched me, and be completely honest about the fact that I resented his demands. It so often felt that I was something he used for his amusement, that he was entitled to that use, and that I was failing when I didn't want it as he did.

And then I had to ask and accept him being that blunt in return.

T'was not a fun evening but I think that, in combination with the space of the pregnancy, has done the trick. I had time off, he learned that I do still love him even if I don't show it by getting all naked with him. It's better... not perfect, but better. We've since learned that what we did was actually an amateur form of a tried and tested counselling technique. Go figure.

Perhaps you could instigate the same kind of agreed gap with your DH? The subject is closed, completely, for a month and then you will ease back into it, gradually, and see how you both feel.

That way, a shared sofa of an evening stops being threatening to you or an invite to him and might allow you to breathe a little.

Apologies for the mammoth post! Here's hoping it helps.

I've been here and got the t-shirt and am in the process of separating

I very much agree with Ginny's comments.

I really would urge you to try and get this sorted out if you can because over time it totally erodes a relationship until you end up leading separate lives, and it's always a downward spiral from there.

The thing is, to sort it out, he MUST talk to you about it, as he needs to understand what makes you feel that he loves you, just as he needs to explain to you about how / when he feels loved.

You probably both need lots of things to do this, but will have one or two that are most important to you.

To talk about it you need to put resentment aside, if you can, but on both sides.

Ginny, that's exactly how I feel. So please for you it worked out.

I think you're right about being blunt. I always try so hard to word things so I don't hurt his feelings or make him think I can't stand him, when thats not the case atall.

Ok. something to try then. thanks.

Tellitlikeitis- sorry about your split. I do feel we're drifting further apart. The children are the one strong link we have. I'd love him to tell me how he really feels.

Anyway, just back from work and dc's due back from various clubs so need to go spend some time with them.

One small point is that it sounds that you both have very different love languages - ie ways of feeling love and also showing love. This can be very important as one feels they are giving love but the other doesnt feel it as they have a different way of expressing it.Im no expert but it is covered in some books and some online stuff for example: marriage.about.com/cs/communicationkeys/a/lovelanguage.htm

Timetoleave

So sorry youre having problems. Unfortaunately I can only echo what's already been said about talking. Can you get away for a weekend somewhere without dc?

The book that Mumfun is referring to is called the fivelovelanguages - I think its by Gary Chapman and you can get it from Amazon. I read it a couple of years ago and I would highly recommend it. If I remember rightly there is a man's and a woman's version of the same book.

I learned a lot from it...