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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

HELP! The Return of the Emotionless Android

22 replies

SwannMum · 29/11/2009 23:47

I wrote a thread on here months and months ago and received a number of replies which really helped me at the time.

In brief, my situation is as follows. The father of my son had some sort of commitment phobic breakdown in response to impending parental responsibilities. It started in my last few weeks of pregnancy and got worse after our son was born... i.e. he basically just went and got hammered all the time. Meanwhile I returned to work after eight weeks which was immensely difficult (recovering from a caesarian, being diabetic I also had a lot of hypos- when blood sugar goes low- because I was breast feeding).

(The lack of responsibility and refusal thing is evidenced as well by the fact I had to go through the CSA to get him to contribute... he's 33, there is no excuse for that. After he left, I found out he had been internet dating and on his profile he stated that he 'had no children' and 'wasn't sure' if he wanted any... which to me, denying our son's existence is absolutely dispicable... I posted that profile to his parents and circled that bit and they did not see it as a problem... 'it's up to him what he does' type attitude, which gives an insight into the sort of issues I'm up against)

Anyway I'd been back at work two weeks and hadn't managed to get any work done (I work from home, so there was massive amount of flexibility and I have a brilliantly understanding boss, but still you know, in order to earn money you actually have to do something). The reason I hadn't was because my ex just wasn't fulfulling his side of the agreement, i.e. that on his days off he would look after our son so I could plough on with report writing. Instead he chose to sail off to York Races, to London, Glastonbury, to various other things with his friends. When he announced that he would be going to a friend's 'Boozy Barbeque' on a Tuesday afternoon and I (very calmly... as I was at the time topless and breastfeeding) said he had to look after our son as I could not jiggle him up and down on my knee AND write a stats report, he went mental and threw the Moses basket at me. At the time I was breast feeding our son on the bed, and the Moses basket whizzed past our heads and narrowly missed hitting us. I was massively shocked, it took me a couple of weeks to be able to acknowledge what had happened. I don't want to make out that I was suffering from domestic violence or something, because that was definitely not the case, but nonetheless it affected me profoundly after and that's how our relationship ended.

Despite that, I wanted the ex to have contact with our son because I want our son to have a father. So I sought advice from a solicitor who advised that twice a week for two hours would be a fair amount of contact (because our son was still breastfeeding, he couldn't really be away from me for much longer than that). So that's what I said. But I found the ex's behaviour extremely aggressive (he's a copper and works 'incident reponse' so I think that's where he gets it from). He kept threatening not to bring our son back saying that because he's on the birth certificate he could do that and there would be nothing I could do. That was extremely difficult, deeply upsetting and I used to spend the whole time he was with him worrying and anxious because I was sure that he wasn't going to bring him back. But nevertheless I wanted him to bond with our son so tried to make the arrangement work.

We went to relationship counselling and mediation, where I brought up the Moses basket but he would not engage with that at all. At first he said he 'tripped over it', then he said, 'if you said it happened then it happened', then he denied it happening at all. Meanwhile I was having to contend with high pressure emails from his mother.

In the end, it was our son's behaviour which changed my mind. As soon as his father came into the house, he would start crying. Not the tired cry or the hungry cry, although at first I used to make those excuses to my ex becuase I didn't want him to feel upset... again, being too nice as I didn't want to get into a row. To me, though it looked like our son was scared.

I suggested to the ex that he stay around the house so that our son felt safe in his familiar surroundings and I would be upstairs if there was a problem. He refused to eat with my ex. Our son kept crying though and he refused to eat for his father (by that time he was weaning, but again, there had never been a problem if anyone but me fed him). That to me signalled a massive problem because I had never seen him cry like that. He goes to nursery twice a week, so he was used to mixing with people other than me. The issue again was the fact that the ex refused to acknowledge that there was a problem and on the last visit I actually felt like he would play tug of war with our son.

He used to show up late, bring him back late, text the day before he wanted to come round and go mental if I said I'd made plans (which I had, nothing too exciting admittedly but coffee with other mums which I really needed during that time), so I would end up having to cancel in order to accomodate him. I asked him to make plans in advance and he refused point blank. There was no reason why he couldn't, he gets his shifts months in advance so I think it was just becasue he wasn't sure when the next piss up with his brother would be.

I had to stop contact in the end because of the ex's behaviour. I honestly feel that I have acted in my son's best interests rather than my own at all times. (There is a lot of other stuff... his general lifestyle choices with drugs and alcohol, the fact his parents are ex wife swapping nudists and have what can only be called a wanking shed in their house, with pictures of 1980s porn stars with everything on display, not just breasts, interdispersed worryingly with framed school photos of my ex and his brother... which i find disturbing and I don't want our son stumbling across that). The ex stole things from my house when he used to visit our son- including the registration certificate for my car and most upsettingly, a memory book I made for our son which I started from the day I found I was pregnant). Plus tonnes of other stuff, but I would need a thousand more words so shall spare you!

Basically I have put up with a lot of really crappy stuff from him and I just want the ex to behave normally and face up to his responsibilities.

We are due in court in January about access and I have decided to represent myself as the costs are so high. I don't qualify for legal aid and I don't want to get myself into debt. I was just wondering if anyone has been through this and whether anyone could offer any advice as I am really really scared and worried about the whole thing.

OP posts:
mrsboogiefairylights · 30/11/2009 00:10

I haven't been through anything like this but I have to say that in your situation I would not be so civilised.

Your baby is afraid of him and he makes no positive contribution to the child's life.

I would either;

a) threaten him with every single thing I knew about him - the swinging parents, the drugs, the drinking, the violence, refusal to support his son, aggressive behaviour, the whole lot - tell him you will submit a dossier about him to his bosses

or
b) I would not hang around and would leave the country - I don't say that lightly - your ex sounds like a very dangerous man who believes himself to be above the law. I would move to Scotland, Ireland or somewhere that he couldn't exert his malign influence.

SqueezyIsBackToBlack · 30/11/2009 00:21

What a horrible situation and what a horrible man. You are doing well to get away from him.

One thing, don't expect his parents to take your side no matter how unreasonable he is/has been. Keep them out of it as much as possible. Their sex life, also, is nothing to do with it whatsoever, in the nicest of ways you must stick to relevant things. There are some things you are going to have to bypass and ignore in order to save your own sanity and to deal with the whole thing.

This is between you and him.

Keep evidence of everything that backs up the things you are saying about him. Hearsay is no good and he will be well used to finding ways to discredit you. He is also well used to standing in court (as a policeman). At a guess, I'd strongly suggest that you try your very best to find a way to fund legal representation on this if you feel that he is going to make things unnecessarily hard for you.

Unfortunately you can't turn him into a good dad but you can try to get some routine into your and your childs life by getting it all sorted out legally.

Wishing you all the best.

SwannMum · 30/11/2009 00:22

Ha. I wish. That is extremely tempting. I don't think I would be looked on very favourably though by the law. I'd be hunted down as a dispicable selfish mother.

To be honest, I really think that if it wasn't for his mother, he wouldn't even be on the scene. I've requested supervised contact before we go to court and she even wants to crash that. She cannot just back off and let her 33 year old son sort it out by himself. I told both her and his father about the Moses basket and neither acknowledged it, they chose to ignore it and therefore sanctioned it.

The mother's an alcoholic I'm sure. His whole family cannot function without getting paraletic. Despite the fact they're in their 70s, they drink for fourteen hours straight every week end. It sounds quite amusing, but believe me it isn't. It's like Abigail's Party: The Nightmare. They live in a semi in suburbia with a block paved drive and groomed garden with a greenhouse. It all looks very normal, but it is not. That's another major reason why I don't want him looking after our baby at their house. They'll be feeding him metaxa in his Tommy Tippee.

OP posts:
mrsboogiefairylights · 30/11/2009 00:28

what's metaxa?

SqueezyIsBackToBlack · 30/11/2009 00:29

I was just about to ask the same MrsB

Just googled, it's a Greek brandy.

mrsboogiefairylights · 30/11/2009 00:32

If you are talking about being hunted down for leaving the country I don't think that would be a problem if you were to live outside the UK legal jurisdiction.

If I were you I would be making plans to feck off somewhere he wouldn't find me.

SwannMum · 30/11/2009 00:36

Thanks Squeezy.
No, their sex life isn't, but what I do take issue is with the indecent pornographic images on display in their house which my son could be exposed to. That's the issue. Their lifestyle choices as a family warrant serious concern. Primarily their alcohol consumption, I'm not talking a couple of glasses of wine, I am talking annihilation. The ex may be a policeman but he's not been adverse to a bit of drink driving in the past. I do have some evidence I suppose. I took photos of the magic mushrooms he grew in the aloe vera at home. And I know he was searching for places where magic mushrroms grow on the computer, so I guess you could take the hard drive as evidence... I think it keeps a log of everything you look at? Apart from that, the Moses basket can't be proved. But

I seriously wish the mother would bog off (to put it mildly) but she is one of those incredibly over bearing sorts. She never has a good word to say about any female near her sons... the ex's brother's girlfriend got accused of 'trapping' the 36 year old brother after they announced their engagement. When I was pregnant (at 28) she presented the ex with a Guardian newspaper cutting about how it was much better to wait until you're in your late 30s before having a child... a matter of personal preference isn't it? Anyone else would just have been really happy to have their first grandchild on the way. A week after I had our son, she presented me with a book entitled 'How to lose weight while breastfeeding'... she has issues. That doesn't matter though if she would be a good grandmother, but so far I have seen absolutely zero evidence of this. In fact she has just made things ten times worse by interfering and sending me inappropriate emails and text messages to both me and my family. I had to ask my solicitor to tell her to stop as I felt harrassed

OP posts:
mrsboogiefairylights · 30/11/2009 00:41

Really, just move away. They are all bonkers.

Although, with the amount of shit you have on lover boy I fail to see why he is a problem at all.

SwannMum · 30/11/2009 00:43

Yes. Mextaxa is a greek brandy... it's foul. They drink it when they've worked their way through every other alcoholic thing. This makes me sound very prudish and I'm not. I like a nice g&t as much as the next person but at the same time I would not be getting twa**ed while I'm in charge of my 8 month old baby.

Then again, I would also not grow magic mushrooms in an aloe vera plant, advertise that I have no children when I have on an internet dating, and take Es and snort cocaine in an attempt to relive my uni days with my brother in a penthouse appartment before going for quiet drinks with our girlfriends. I would also not be buying myself Hunter wellingtons, portable hair straighteners and D&G sunglasses for Glastonbury when I haven't paid the gas bill and I've been threatened with bailiffs and my girlfriend who has just had my baby cannot even afford a pair of postpregnancy Primark jeans. I have to say, I don't miss him at all. He was abysmal. This is making me feel better!

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SwannMum · 30/11/2009 00:47

Yes I actually think the divide between men and women is more than a divide. It's a great big chasm. To me, his behaviour is an early mid life crisis. Maybe I should just go and do one and go and live on a prairie or something.

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mrsboogiefairylights · 30/11/2009 00:54

portable hair straighteners? oh fuck, why didn't you say this before?

that would be top of my list of misdemeanours. What a grade A twat.

hair straighteners. jeez.

New Zealand is very nice you know...

letsblowthistacostand · 30/11/2009 00:59

As a policeman doesn't he have regular drug tests?

SwannMum · 30/11/2009 01:09

No. I think they're meant to have regular drug tests but in practice, no. They tested him when he first started, but not since. As far as I know. I don't reckon he'd be that stupid to be using them before a court case anyway.

The hair straighteners. My mother roled on the floor with laughter when I told her about that. They were those gas powered portable ones. He's incredibly vain. And the Hunter wellies? I told him that's Kate Moss crica 2002, so it's outdated anyway.

Yeah New Zealand would be good... I say wistfully thinking of how I could knit me and the baby some sheep skinned coats and live on a nice peaceful beach.

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mrsboogiefairylights · 30/11/2009 01:16

they'd test him quick enough if they were tipped off about his recreational habits...

In your place I would feel obliged to threaten warn him about that...

Harebelle · 30/11/2009 09:04

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Mitsi · 30/11/2009 10:10

I'm so sorry you have had to go through all of that.
I'm really struggling at the moment, due to a partner who is offering me zero support. He already has a child from a previous relationship & has been through the courts. He went through hell. Which is why I'm so surprised with his attitude towards me. I have become so frustrated & consequently have become so unreasonably angry. He never talks about our baby & completely ignores me most of the time. We were on a break when I found out I was pregnant & things haven't gotten much better since we got back together. We've had one session at Relate but I'm not holding much hope. I'm so frightened. I think I should leave but don't know where to start? I'm 16 weeks pregnant & so sad. Surely this is mean't to be the best time of your life? Any advice would be appreciated.
Sending you lots of love & happiness.

Ironwilledmama · 30/11/2009 10:17

Have you looked at the Police Code Of Conduct,someone sent this to me as I'm dealing with similar.

'Police officers do not behave in a manner which brings, or is likely to bring, discredit on the police service or that undermines or is likely to undermine public confidence in the police whether on or OFF DUTY'.

'Even when off duty, police officers should never behave in a manner that brings or is likely to bring discredit upon the police service'.

These are just some examples, from what you have said here, I think his behaviour would be taken seriously, don't stand for it. His superiors would definitely bring him down a peg or two. Oh and do tell them about the hair straighteners, he would never live that one down

SwannMum · 30/11/2009 14:43

Thanks for all your replies. A friend suggested that I report him to his superiors but to be honest, I just didn't want to make things any worse. I'm a bit paranoid about how I will come across in court

I found after we had started trying for a baby (when he was the normal sane kind person I fell in love with) that he was using porn a lot. When I say a lot I am talking several hours a day. I'm surprised he had any energy left by the end of that really but jokes aside, I told him that I had taken the computer to be checked out so I would know if he was lying (I hadn't) and he confessed. He wasn't using anything too freaky... just lots of naked girls' bits but I did find it a bit disturbing. There was one in particular which I found very disturbing of a woman which just looked like his mother in M and S underwear... I know it was M and s underwear because I actually had the same set.

The fact that he was going on it at 6 a.m. before gettig ready for work, while i was still asleep, is a bit weird so I reckon it was an addiction.

Our relationship was always a bit dry on the sex front. I put that down to the fact he was banging one (well a few) out on porn all day. I told hiom he either went to sex therapy with me or we split. Then I found out I was pregnant. I'm sure he has deep seated emotional troubles. He once was talking about a girlfriend and I didn't know who was talking about (he'd had two girlfriends, once when he was 17 which lasted a couple of years and once when he was 25 when he lived in Australia which lasted a year). Anyway I asked him and he said it was the girl he went out with when he was 12. 12! I thought that was really weird because I wouldn't class anyone I went out with before the age of 17 as a 'serious boyfriend'. I mean, at 12 you're still a kid aren't you? You've not got the concept of emotional issues which comes with sex. It turned out he lost his virginity at 12 in this girlfriend's cellar while all his friends were present.

This coupled with the fatc his parents were wife swapping nudists, I think has given him issues. I don't know. I just think that having your mother or father open the door to your teenage friends completely naked would give anyone issues. On his 14th birthday they bought them all alocohol... not just a couple of beers but a whole cabinet of spirits. One of his friends drank so much he passed out into unconsciousness. The dad had to sit with him all night making sure he didn't choke on his own vomit. That seems to be his family's proudest story. Maybe I'm just a bit of a bore, but to me, I think it borders on child abuse. I definitely don't want my son growing up in that sort of environment. I think the ex has a drinking problem. For me, it's abnormal that everytime you go to see your parents it is necessary to get absolutely inebriated. When I think about it, I cannot think of one time that he has managed not to.

I want our son to have a positive relationship with his dad, but I just don't think he is responsible at all. But that's just it... a positive one. I grew up with a father, with my parents together. They always had a united front and I grew up feeling happy, safe and secure. I want the same for my baby but it's proving impossible. Seriously, I know I'm caught up in all of this so am completely clouded. But am I over analysing? Am I being unreasonable? Are there any fathers on here? What do they think??

OP posts:
Shineynewthings · 30/11/2009 15:50

A father is only worth having around if he can actually fulfill the role. Him simply hanging about once in a while under duress really doesn't warrant you bending over backwards in order to provide your DS with a father, much as you'd like that. Ideally you'd love that for your son but you can't change someone who doesn't want to change. And he sounds like he's had a dysfunctional upbringing and is still controlled by the dysfuctionalism. He can't understand functional. What example has he got? What will he bring to the table as a dad? he doesn't know what it means. You might have tried to teach him but it's pointless if he isn't moved to do it himself. The whole family sound frankly crazy and untrustworthy.

Cut your losses. You only have 1 DC and are still young enough to find someone a million times more worthy of you. There are good men out there who you will meet who will step in and be a better father to your boy. Put as much distance between you and them as possible and move forward with your life. Your DS will be happier and so will you. When this court thing is all over, leave it to him to do what's required, and if he stuffs up again, move forward and DON'T LOOK BACK.

veryconfusedandupset · 30/11/2009 16:28

If you decide to represent yourself at the contact hearing perhpas it would be a good idea to speak to a solicitor beforehand to get advice about what are and are not relevant issues here. The issue of contact will only be decided on what the court percieves to be in the childs best interests and it is quite unusual for there to be no contact at all.

There are all sorts of things here that are 100% relevant such as the incident with the moses basket, any direct evidence of drug use, his attutude towards your child. Your problem will probably be that he will turn up all sweetness and light, go on and on about being a police officer and try to portray you as being very unreasonable. (this is what fathers like this do)_

The information about his parents is probably irrelevant and your child's aversion may just be a developmental stage or picking up on your feelings. This is just to ask you to think about being straightforward and factual, so that you achieve your aim. If you feel you cannot cope emotionally with the hearing perhaps a solicitor could find an inexpensive young barrister to take the case - they are often really good and desperate to get cases.

DippyDino · 30/11/2009 16:57

Wish I had more to add, but just wanted to say that I remember your original thread, I told dh all about it and his reaction would not be allowed on netmums without more * and ! than you could shake a stick at.

Hope all goes well for you and your ds and that you find someone worthy of you!

SwannMum · 01/12/2009 21:30

Thanks everyone! I know in my heart of hearts that I've acted in the best interests of our son and that's what matters isn't it. I am just frightened of the possible outcome of going to court, especially as I'm representing myself. But it needs sorting out properly. I cannot handle 18 years of dealing with the ex's selfish, self-absorbed and frankly appalling behaviour. You hear so much on the news about those unreasonable mothers who apparently stop access for no reason, but after this experience, I'm not sure I'd be so quick to judge. There should be some sort of vetting procedure on potential fathers I reckon so you know what you're getting yourself into. However, that said, (without wishing to get too soppy) I love my son. He's brilliant and I have always put him first. He hasn't. That's basically the upshot of the situation.

Finally, thanks for the support and wish me luck, I'll keep the thread updated!

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