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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Helping a good friend with a potentially EA and certainly unhealthy relationship: how do I get through to her?

12 replies

DivineInspiration · 27/11/2009 02:26

I have a feeling this is going to turn out to be epic; it's regarding a very good friend of mine and I can't sleep at the moment thinking about some of the things she's told me over the past couple of weeks about her partner. They've been together for just exactly a year. It's never been an easy ride by any account - lots of angst, tears on her part, they've broken it off more than once but got back together quickly each time. He has mental health problems, as does she, and I think it's difficult for the both of them to be mutually supportive of each other when they often have difficulty even keeping their own heads above water. He isn't able to be a rock for her in any case, though I understand that's not wholly his fault. There's just so much that's happened that makes me worry for her - it's not good for her health to also be dealing with these problems.

Just some of the most notable/recent issues:

She's found emails and Facebook messages (I think Facebook is the work of the devil for so many reasons like this) to and from girls he's told her were just old classmates, declaring his love for them saying he still misses them etc.

He's lied about keeping in touch with ex-girlfriends and then making her out to be insane, jealous and paranoid for suspecting him of still seeing them, when all along she was right.

All his previous relationships seem to be full of deceit and lies. He's lost a lot of friends over the years because he's slept with other people's girlfriends/spread rumours about former friends/fucked people over etc.

He deliberately bought her the 'wrong' present for her birthday, and then forced her to admit it was 'wrong'; then spent several days acting all injured and as though she was just trying to hurt him by telling him so.

When they argue he behaves like a toddler, and then leaves suicide notes for her to find. He'll then switch his phone off for a day or two, get her in an absolute panic that he's slit his wrists or something, then suddenly turn up again. She'll then apologise for arguing with him, even if it was an argument he instigated or over something perfectly valid.

He sprung a marriage proposal on her after about 7 months. Then threatened to kill himself when she turned him down, saying if she loved him she'd say yes.

He recently wrote several entries in his blog (which he knows she reads) about how much he loved her, and how everything he does he only does because he loves her so much and it confuses him and means he doesn't know what he's doing when these things are bad, how he keeps the truth from her because he's trying to protect her. About how she's the most amazing thing in the world, all he wants is to marry her and have a family with her, with the implication that she should read all this and infer from it that he's a changed man, he's sorting himself out and she should forget everything that's gone before.

The thing is, when she asks me what I think she should do I just want to say "Arse is he trying to protect you, I wouldn't touch him with someone elses' bargepole, get rid of him", but in reality it's not that simple is it. I've tried gently suggesting that she needs to rely far more on his actions henceforth than from anything he's written about - if he means what he says and is taking on board what he's been told by her and others then that will reflect itself in his behaviour - which afterall is the important thing. I've tried encouraging her to take a break, even if it's just not seeing him for a few weeks, I've had long phone calls, emails etc with her trying to get it across that he's being manipulative whilst simultaneously trying to appear as though I'm not judging him.

She's younger than I am, and often asks me for advice or help or perspective on things. Part of me thinks that her continual sharing of details and asking me for my perspective on her relationship is a sort of 'cry for help' - she knows that she needs to get rid and wants me to tell her so or reassure her that doing so would be the right thing. But another part of me worries that if this isn't the case and she really only wants me to tell her he's not so bad or that it'll get better etc and I tell her I think he's a cock and not worth her time, that she'll stop talking to me about it, bottle it up and keep quiet in the future even if his behaviour gets worse and/or more aggressive.

She's absolutely besotted with him, and I know the feeling - I was head over heels in love with my ex-p even as he called me names, told me he slept with other women because I was unworthy of him, banged my head against the kitchen counters and even as I was mopping up my own blood. I just thought I needed to be better and then he'd be nicer to me. Luckily I'm well away from that now, and whilst I don't think physical violence is the necessary conclusion in my friend's scenario, there are definitely aspects at the moment bordering on emotionally abusive, and it's certainly a dependent, unhealthy, upsetting relationship for her to be staying in.

I'm sorry this has been so long. I'm desperate to help her and I'm running out of things to say. I know that this is a decision she has to reach for herself, but how can I help her get to a place where she understands that sometimes, despite loving somebody, you have to admit that love isn't enough and that the relationship needs to come to an end? Does anyone have any experience of helping a friend through something like this? Are there any resources I can use for her, something to help her come to her own conclsions rather than something telling her what she needs to do?

OP posts:
DivineInspiration · 27/11/2009 02:27

Oh, Jesus wept, it's a novel. Arg. Sorry, don't expect anyone to plough through it - just from the title alone is there any info out there?

OP posts:
DivineInspiration · 27/11/2009 02:56

Sorry, commenting on my own thread! I've been reading through the thread on support for people leaving EA relationships and I saw that somebody recommended a couple of books: 'Dragonslippers: This is What an Abusive Relationship Looks Like' and 'Emotional Vampires: Dealing With People Who Drain You Dry'.

Would it be a good idea for me to get these books and then slip them to her with a note to read them? Or a really bad one because it looks like I'm trying to force her to make a decision?

OP posts:
Unlikelyamazonian · 27/11/2009 03:43

I have lost ds shoes

AnyFucker · 27/11/2009 07:11

UA ???

DI, I really don't have any concrete advice for you. How awful for you to have to watch this carcrash unfolding before your eyes...

I just wanted you to know I have read your post. All I could say is that you will need to continue to be there for her, whatever happens. She will need someone to be around to pick up the pieces when this reaches a final crisis point.

However, I really wouldn't continue to just listen to her tales of his abusive behaviour. Have you thought that by running it by you, she is offloading and in a twisted way, getting validation to carry on ?As in, she might think it isn't that bad reallY. I would state your position clearly on this, that it is not healthy, and then limit the tales of woe unless she is asking for truly practical advice she is intending to take.

That would be my way. Others may disagree. There are lots of ladies who have lived through this, so I am sure you will get some better advice later.

groundhogs · 27/11/2009 16:02

Good points there AF, hoping the others here, who are more experienced than I, can help.

You sound like a truly lovely friend, and I hope that someone here can give you the best support to be able to help her.

queenofdenial2009 · 29/11/2009 13:19

I agree with AF. You need to give her some sort of reality check along the lines of no, this is not OK. You might want to share some of your story with her. If she already knows it, you might want to highlight the similarities and talk about what was going on in your head.

It's not bordering on emotionally abusive, it completely is. It's manipulative and exploitative and chances are it will get worse not better. Tell her you think she should speak to Women's Aid even if just to see her reaction or plant the seed. I think she is asking for help (although that doesn't mean it's your responsibility to fix it).

Janos · 29/11/2009 14:41

Hiya Divine, I've been in this situation before (asn EA) and I sympathise enormously. I also have a dear friend who is heading towards an EA relationship at a rate of knots.

I don't know that there is more you can do. As you will know yourself, sadly, these relationships are very difficult to get away from as the abuser works on you from the inside out.

Effectively he's 'training' her to accept his behaviour by offering nuggets like the blog. He doesn't mean any of that, it's another method of control.

Anyway, as for practical advice - hmmmm. Continue to point out, as you are doing, that his behaviour is manipulative, controlling etc. Don't collude with any 'he's not so bad' or 'guess what lovely thing x did for me'. When she does remind her of an occasion where he has behaved badly or let her down (this is what I do with my friend).

Maybe you could frame it as 'Look, you know I will always be there for you and I'm not judging you but you know I don't like x and I think he treats you badly'.

Also, not saying your friend is one of these but some people do feed off and get some sort of validation from the 'drama'of these awful relationships. If you feel she is doing this you could maybe cut her off and say 'you know my feelings on that subject, we've already talked about this'.

HTH.

dittany · 29/11/2009 14:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dittany · 29/11/2009 14:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Janos · 29/11/2009 16:31

I think dittany's advice is very good.

It is incredibly frustrating when you see someone in this sort of situation but ultimately you can't do much except offer support.

DivineInspiration · 29/11/2009 22:18

Sorry, not to have been back sooner, hectic weekend. Just want to thank everybody for their time in reading my thread and the great answers - really, really helpful.

I have tried breadcrumbing her towards Women's Aid - they were an utter lifeline for me. Unfortunately she's still at the stage of believing that it isn't 'bad enough' for her to speak to them about it, and that he needs her help and committment not for her to run away from him. Wants to help him with his health problems, worries that if she leaves she'll be throwing away her one chance at true love. That sort of thing. It is frustrating.

I think I do need to take a step back - you're all right, I think there is an element of validating her own experiences through constantly talking about it, even if it's juxtaposing the shit stuff with supposedly nice things he's done. I have told her a little bit about what I went through and honestly I wonder if it was a mistake - that by describing my Grade 10 bastard, her bastard who doesn't yet hit her looks acceptable or 'curable' in comparison. I don't know. I definitely want her to know that I'll be around when she does reach a decision. I understand that's where my focus needs to be.

Thank y'all so much!

OP posts:
Janos · 29/11/2009 22:23

Yeah he needs to be helped all right.....

Helped over the nearest cliff!

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