problems with inlaws please help.

[Callie]

Hi I really need some advice from some impartial observers. I have been with my partner for 12yrs.We met when I was 14 and he 16. When I was 17 we had our son . I still lived with my parents at this time and he with his.
Anyway , I got on great with his mother and stepdad. They treated me like a daughter and when me and tom moved into our fist home with our son they insisted on doing everything and also insisted they had our son every weekend. I was happy about this if not a little uncomfortable. But I was young and enjoyed going out.
However I soon became unhappy when i relised I was being undermined at every turn by mum inlaw. If I told my son no more lollys she would say, "silly mummy isnt she cruel" and promtly get him another one.
She would constantly tell me stories of her mother and sister whom she hated. She would tell how her mother was cruel to her yet adored her sister.
I briefly fell out with my mother when I was 20. We soon made up and were and our closer than ever.However mum in law was incensed by this and started to make some sly comments about my mother to me . I always ignored them.It got to the point were I was scared to mention my own family to mum in law.

Soon myself tom and son moved house into the sane street as my mother and sister. Yet mum in law was very mad about this and started acting cool towards me. (Can I just say that my partner tom was oblivious almost to his mothers behavoiur)

It all came to a head one day when mum in law started shouting and swearing at me in front of tom and our son who was by then 4.
I got very upset and left the house crying.

The next day by complete chance we bumped into them in a shop. I was very angry at the way she had treated me ,for months I had kept my mouth shut whilst she bad mouthed my whole family for no reason. But now since we were finished anyway after her outburst I walked up to her and told her to never come near any of us again and that she made me sick.

The point of all tis is we havent spoken since. Tom goes round there v infrequently now and they see our son only about 3 times a yr. They know they are welcome to come around to our home anytime but choose not to because Im there.

I became pregnant in sep 99 and thought this might help us make up . After all how could they ignore me now I was having their grandchild.
Well they did. That christmas when I was 5 mths preggo they came around to our house that morning,
Mum in law stepdad , sister and boyfriend all traipsed in they talked to my son to tom but did not say one word to me. I made an exuse ti go the toilet and cryed and cryed. I offered them a cup of tea and they each geave a cool NO.
It spoiled the day for me and really upset me.
Tom passed around the scan pic of our baby . They looked at it in silence.

Months later our little girl was born. 3 days later on my weepy day they all traipsed round again. Aha I thought how they ignore me now with the baby in my arms! Well they DID.

They did not even look at the baby. They sat down for 10 mins and talked smalltalk with tom. Noone even mentioned the baby or me who had just given birth. I felt my eyes welling up with hurt and embarrsment.

They left a card but did not write our names in it. It just said congratulations.

That was 14mths ago and they have not seen our little girl since. They ignore her as if she were never born. Ous son got a card posted on his birthday bot nothing for dd.

The crunch of all this is tom half blames me for the situation. All because 4 yrs ago I finally told her what I thought when we bumped into them.

He has said we will never marry whilst the situation is this way with his mum. Even though they hardly even bother with him now.

His mum has not spoken to her own sister for 25yrs so I can not see her ever speaking to me again. I would love some advice on all this.
Its starting to really upset me that after 12yrs and 2 kids tom wont marry me.Please help.

You poor thing. I had something similar but in a much more minor form when my second daigheter was born. Mum in law came round and was harrassing my two year old about potty training; like you I was at the "Weepy stage" and told her not to - she didn't speak to us for weeks and it took us basically playing humble pie for her to come round (I hated doing it but felt it was worth it for peace's sake). All I can say really is, if your child is in her house (even with you) she probably ought to het some control over lollipops etc (just grin and bear it!) but in your house work on your terms. In terms of reconciliation (if that's what you want) why not get your boyfriend to write her a letter which you both sign saying you want to make amends and try to be friends for the sake of the children - that way, the ball is in her court. Otherwise, could bf contact stepdad or sister and say how unhappy this is making him and you - they might be willing to act as middlemen with his mum. With ref to the fact that your bf says he won't consider marriage whilst this is going on, I think you need to tell him that he loves you for YOUR sake, not his mother's so this issue should be unconnected to your marriage. I do hope things get sorted but if they don't, you'll have tried and your children are the most important thing. The fact that she's fallen out with other family members already shows that it's her with the problem not you. Good luck!

It seems like there is some underlying jealousy on your MIL's part over the relationship you have with your family, your boyfriend and children. It sounds like she enjoyed being the person there for you when you were young and pregnant - a kind of matriarch figure, but now over the years you have become independent and don't need her in the same way you did.

I think Candy is right about Tom marrying you for being you and the mother issue shouldn't come into it.

If you want to patch things up with your MIL and have her be a grandmother to your children you may have to make the first move. Would you feel comfortable ringing her and suggesting you talk, that you don't like the way things are currently, which is sad as you used to have such a good relationship? If not, would a letter be more comfortable? You can explain how you feel, that even if the differences between you were irreconcilable could you at least be polite for the children's sake? Could you discuss the situation further with Tom and say you want to change things and enlist his help?

I think you've got to knock this on its head soon before it potentially escalates - and the danger signs are there, like Tom not wanting to consider marriage. This could affect your entire relationship with him.

There are many things my MIL does that drives me mad. But I grin and bear it, ignore it and try not to let it get to me. Do what you have to do to ensure that your own family unit is strong, happy, supporting and loving. Good luck

Not much I can add here, I agree with the advice given. The ball is definitely in your court to sort out and your MIL may be hurting as much as you about this. Writing a letter would be a good idea.

Callie
You poor thing - what a nightmare situation. I really think that you need to get Tom on your side. Tell him that you are unhappy about the situation and would like to make things better. Explain to him that you don't believe that you are at fault but that you are prepared to make a big effort out of respect for him. I think that you then need to make a plan together. Maybe organise a family get together to celebrate the birth of your daughter. When your MIL arrives you could greet her, you don't have to lie and say that you are pleased to see her but you could say something like you're glad she could make it. How about then appealing to her to help with some of the arrangements - just find a small task for her like putting out napkins with the plates. Try and engage her in neutral conversation. I would think of some safe topics beforehand as you may feel a bit flustered when she's there. It could be something really trivial like a new shop opening in town or another bit of local news that might get her talking.
My own mother suffered 28 years with her MIL and I know that these were some of the strategies she used. She always made a big effort to have my Dad in on any of her plans for coping (even though he usually seemed oblivious & powerless). She also used to note down neutral topics of conversation before Granny arrived to try and ensure that they didn't come to blows. Granny also used to try and undermine Mum and Mum always stood firm and used to say in a calm voice "if you don't mind, I'd rather we did it this way today" and as soon as we were old enough she explained to us that if Granny told us to do something different to what she had said that we should stick with Mum's rules.
My Mum used to shake with nerves before Granny arrived and nearly always had to have a stiff drink as soon as she'd left the house. I really do feel for you, but I think that you must get Tom on your side, without him feeling like you hate his mother and that somehow, you need to re-establish a relationship of some sort with this woman.

Thanks everyone for the advice.But Im afraid it is probably already too late. This situation has been going on for 4yrs now and it is already coming between me and tom. I agree that the subject of marriage should be a completely different issue and I strongly feel that If tom loves me then he should marry me. However we never discuss this anymore because it always turns into an argument. I have not brought up the subject of marriage for over a yr now. But beleive me he knows how much I want it because whenever a friend marrys I go on about it for days The dress the cake etc. I tell him how much I look forward to my wedding day but he just changes the subject.

Dont get me wrong its not just the wedding day itself I want its the whole commitment that I need. I have never felt comfortable with having children before marriage but because I was so young and tom was in uni when ds was born I accepted that marriage was impossible. However Im now 26 and toms carrer is well established we have a nice house and cars and are comfortably off . There should be nothing stopping us.
The older I get and the more of my friends that marry the more important it is becoming to me.
My friends ask when we are getting married but Im too ashamed to tell them the truth so I make up some exuse like we dont feel the need.

I feel I gave up a lot whrn i had my son at 17. I gave up my A levels and hopes of uni and a carrer. But t om still done all these things. I didnt mind I loved being a mum and I dreamed of our wedding day when I would feel like we were a proper family. I feel resentful of tom that he is denying me something that is so important to me when I feel I have already gave up a lot to have our children.

Yet I cant see how that is ever going to change. I know his mother will never talk to me again.We both invited her to dds christening but she never turned up.I recently bumped into a cousin of tom. I know that mum in law sees this cousin regulary as they live in the same street. This girl was shocked to see me with my daughter. She had no idea that we had had another baby. My dd is 14 mths and mum in law has never mentioned her.

Your right about mil being jelous of my relationship with my family. I relised this when I got older. And yes i did tolerate her remarks . I never said one bad thing to her at all. Except for that day in the shop when I finally stuck up for myself and my family.And now i may have to pay for that by never marrying.
I strongly believe that mil has some sort of mental problems. When i was only 17 i wopuld listen to her talking about her mother and sister she hated them so much and it was quite frightening. When I fell out with my mother she tried to persuade me that my mother was just like hers evil. Her manipulation did not work i would never fall out and never see my mother again the idea appalled me but i never let that show to mil.

When I was 18 mils sister got in touch with her. She was ill and wanted to make up with her sister. Mil put the phone down on her and refused to ever speak to her.
That is how I know she will never speak to me. I know that she will in fact hate me just like her sister.

BTW in case your wondering what the hell her sister done to deserve 25yrs of silence. The answer is NOTHING. She just didnt like her. MIL was convinced she was sly.

Please someone tell me what shall I do about tom. I have thought about leaving him because how on earth can he love me if treats me this way.

Oh Callie. Sounds like you need a big hug. I wish there was something we could do to make it better.

I don't know what to say about what you can do about Tom. Could you write him a letter and explain why marriage is so important to you, if discussing it just creates an argument. Are you confusing the difference between a wedding and a marriage? You probably actually have a 'marriage' already, but without the legalities. A wedding is just one day. Also, even though you are not openly discussing marriage, by talking about other people's weddings and how much you are looking forward to your own is just adding to the tension. Perhaps you need to back off for a while - if you want to discuss weddings could you talk to your mum or sister?

If there is no way that things can be patched up with your MIL then concentrate on your family. Don't let issues regarding your MIL even come into your conversations. When Tom visits his mother don't let it cause tension between you - politely ask him how she was and then let it drop. Don't force Tom into a corner to decide between you or his mother.

Its fortunate that you and your mum and sister have made up so at least your daughter has one grandmother.

If you love Tom and want him in your life then you may have to accept that marriage is not on the cards. Things don't stay the same forever - look at how your life has changed over the last 12 years. Try to imagine where you want to be in the next 5 years/10 years and what you can change and what you can't.

You've got a lot to contend with and I really feel for you. This woman does not have the right to make you feel like this. Remember, you've people around you that love you for you and that is important.

Callie, I just send big waves of email sympathy! I think Emmam's advice is good, and very realistic, especially about not pushing your husband to choose between you and his mother.
I wouldn't give up trying to make things up with his family though. Not in order to spend a lot of time with them, but to strengthen your relationship with your husband. Can you now assume the role of the adult in this situation and apologise to your MIL for being rude to her before (maybe with fingers crossed behind your back!) and bend over backwards to get on well with her? Maybe take the line that you were young and silly, but hope that she will forgive you? The more generous and magnanimous YOU are, the less she'll be able to stick to her position, which does sound unreasonable. If your husband feels that you aren't against his mother, maybe he'll be more likely to support you in future if she carries on behaving unreasonably. Her daft behaviour towards either of you should be a joke between you.
I agree that problems with his mother shouldn't come between you getting married - he's grown up now for heavens sake. Nasty thing to say, but are you sure he isn't using it as an excuse for other things that may be wrong in your relationship? Would he talk or is he the archetypal silent man? It is obvious from what you say that he has moved on a great deal in the last 7 years odd, is it now your turn to have some of the things you missed out on because you were having babies?
I do wish you best of luck in sorting this out, and masses of sympathy. Don't get too hung up about the wedding though - you are right about commitment, but when your children are grown up, they won't look back to one day of you getting married, they'll remember the secure home that you created for them. What I mean is, if you demonstrate commitment over a long period, the bit of paper becomes less relevant. I sympathise with not having a white wedding if that's on your wish list - I didn't have one, but can assure you I don't think about it much now any more. well not very much anyway! the advantage of it staying just a fantasy is that reality never intruded to spoil it - my wedding dress was from Christian Lacroix, the weather was perfect, my mother went along with all my ideas ... dream on!

I would like to thank everyone who has posted their messages of support. It seems silly but actually writing it down and discussing it with you all has really helped. You all give wonderful advice but the thing is a dont know if I can bring myself to actually ring her up or write to her. Im pretty sure that she would slam the phone down on me. She has had plenty of oppurtunities to make ammends . The birth of her granchild for instance but she will not even look me in the eye.
The truth is I think she enjoys it in a perverse sort of way.
Also although I would accept her presence in our home and be polite to her and she is free anytime to come and see her grandchildren (We are definitly not stopping her) I would not really be happy about her having any influence over our children. I really do think she is seriously screwed up. She obviusly has deep issues from her past that effects her today and stops her from having a relationship with her son or grandchildren.
Sml I agree with you I too have often wondered if tom uses this as an exuse not to marry. I also think he knows his mother has problems but refuses to admit it to himself. He punishes his mother for the situation by only going round there when he has too (about 3 times a yr) and he punishes me by refusing to get married.

To be honest its not the wedding day itself but the commitment I want .I wouldnt care if we never married if it was because we couldnt but both wanted to. But the fact that we could marry but cant because he is punishing me is Killing me inside.Ifeel Iv gave this man everything but he wont do this one thing he wont fully commit.
My best friend is marrying in Aug and Im so happy for her but also sad for myself because although I wanted Tom to be it I feel I havented found a man that will do anything for me that will love and commit to me fully.

It is impossible for me to get tom on side he now gets furious if I even mention his mum even if Im saying how can we change this.

Again I want to thank you all so much this has felt like therapy to me.

While you are desperate for marriage and worried about MIL he has power. Let it go. If he doesn't want to marry you, leave it. Once he sees you don't care he may ask why. Or the whole subject might just get dropped.

As for the MIL she's made her bed, it's her problem not yours. It's only your problem if you let it be. Don't mention it or discuss it. My MIL is a bit of a witch, I ignore her. If she's in front of me I'm polite, but apart from that so what. Once I decided to adopt this attitude its surpprsing how nice she is to me.

Power thats what its all about, they have the power to hurt you, reclaim that power.

Snowy, that's a great way of thinking. I will remember this the next time someone's attitude to me is screwing me up. Thank you.

Carogee, what an awful situation to be in. I do feel for you. However, I hate to be so blunt but tell them... tell them that you cannot allow your children to stay overnight because of their drinking. It seems hard but all the excuses in the world will seem like excuses until you tell them the truth. I realise you don't want to hurt them but your children are your priority. They have to take responsibility for their actions and
their actions mean that you cannot trust them enough to leave your children with them. I realise that you cannot predict how they will take this but, I know I sound harsh, but you really don't have much of a choice. The reason confrontation will occur is because they don't want to acknowledge that they have problems. Well frankly they never will if they don't take on board the fact that how they behave has consequences for others too. You don't seem to want to deny them access to your children, you are being entirely reasonable. As to your husband he has to back you up on this; if he agrees with you he has to be prepared to acknowledge to his parents part of the responsibility of making this decision. Talk to him, it is so unfair to make you the villain here... Best wishes

I agree with Winnie Carogee but surely your husband should be addressing his parents on this one? They will probably take it better coming from him? Or not?

I wonder if the way out would be to stay with them as well - and tell your in-laws why? That way you don't deprive anyone of anything (though yes, part of the attraction for your children would have been staying away without mummy and daddy), you keep your children safe, and you have this problem at least in the discussion area.

I'd urge you to talk about their drinking - this is based on personal experience. My father is an alcoholic and has been a 'problem drinker' for a lot lot longer. My mother was never as bad, but over a period of a few years she was drinking more and more heavily, and once, she was very drunk in front of my children - the eldest was old enough to wonder what was happening. I told her and she cleaned up - it took a while but she was never drunk in front of them again and didn't drink at all when expecting to see them. She hardly drinks at all now. My father is 'in recovery' for the nth time after a drink-fuelled crisis. I'm afraid I have very little respect for him. I am aware that alcoholism is a terrible thing to beat, and that denial is part of the condition. But he has lied and decieved so much over the years to all of us (long story!) and made my mother's life so difficult....basically he put his need for drink over and above his family, and refused to accept he had a problem for about 15 years.

I don't think anything would have changed had we confronted him earlier (he would not have accepted it), but I am glad I confronted my mother in time. Maybe your in-laws are at the stage where they could still listen and act. Ask them if they want their grandchildren to remember them as a pair of drunken old sots who ruined Christmas several times....that's how my kids and their cousins will remember their grandfather. Good luck!

Carogee, what a terrible situation, I am so sorry. And I too, think that for your children's physical safety they cannot be left with their grandparents alone. Going and staying too might help for now, but sooner or later the children will be old enough to go on their own and if your parents-in-law are not dry by then the problem will still be there. I'm sorry, I can't remember the name, but there is a special support group for family members of alcoholics - maybe they have some specific ideas for dealing with the grandparent relationship.
I have no close experience of alcoholism in the family but was at school with a girl whose dearly loved and loving mum was drinking herself to death. I only knew because my mother had worked with hers briefly. Children of alcoholics can often not discuss the matter with their parents, especially if they love them. She and the rest of her family coped really well with the situation but the one thing they were never able to talk to her about was her drinking.
It is very, very hard on you, but your husband is lucky to have someone close who can go into bat for him: if you can make that "with him", then so much the better. But please try and get some professional support for all of you.

Carogee, you have my sympathy.It's good you and your husband feel the same way. It would be double as hard it he was in denial, too.

I definitely agree with Marina. Your MIL and FIL need professoinal help and your family need some support, even if it's just a matter of you contacting a suitable helpline, for now, to talk over this problem.

Reading your message, it seems that you have some regard for your in-laws. If you thought they were beyond the pale, then I assume you wouldn't be agonising over what to do. The situation is also complicated by the fact that your children are old enough to notice strange adult behavour and if you tell a lie to prevent this sleepover, both your inlaws and your children must find the reason plausible.

As others have said, I agree that your husband and/or you, need to talk to your inlaws about their drinking. Having been in a slighty similar situation (though not with inlaws), I know how terribly difficult this will be - especially if your inlaws are, minus drink, loving and caring grandparents.

If, however, you choose to talk about their drinking when refusing them their wishes, you are setting up a confrontation. There is a good risk that they may get very defensive and therefore deny they have a problem. So if and when you tackle them, perhaps do it when you are all more relaxed together. Don't single out the children as such. Express concern, perhaps, about their own safety regarding driving, fire risks if they drink in the evening and have a habit of forgetting to turn things off etc. This may lead the way to them admitting they need help or may help them cut down their drinking by themseves. By talking to them, you have done as much as you can.

Having satisfied your need to help them, I would lie when it comes to cancelling your children's visit. Even if your inlaws see though it, it saves face. I simply cannot think what lie you can tell. Are your children good sleepers? Could you say you know they will stay awake or get too excited (you say they are already very excited over the prospect of all the treats MIL and FIL are planning) and this will make them very difficult to manage? And before your inlaws insist, invite them over for a weekend at yours, so they can see your children when you are around? If they keep insisting, 'go deaf' and keep on suggesting this. It may be that they are trying to 'prove' to you that they don't have a problem buy inviting your children over. Just stay firm and don't get drawn into an argument about their drinking, unless they ask you point blank if that is the reason. At least they will then be admitting the possiblity.

This is going to be so difficult. In the end you can't put your children at risk and you can't take on your inlaws problems. They need outside help. I think, though, that you have to keep yourselves detached from this.

Good luck.

Carogee, this is a very difficult situation, but you only have to think how you would feel if the children came to any harm whilst in your in-laws' care. Added to that, they won't always be small, and you would then have to deal with lots of awkward questions and observations. This is an illness we are discussing, which can render your parents-in-law incapable of caring for your kids in a responsible manner.
So you have to decide how you are going to approach this. Al-Anon is the support organisation for families of alcoholics (www.alanon.com) and they will have suggestions as to the possible approaches. If you have a reasonable relationship with your in-laws, perhaps you could capitalise on this, showing that your concerns are based on love and family feeling. It won't be easy, but as you say, you're running out of excuses, and since you won't put your kids in danger, things will come to a head sooner or later. At least this way you'll be prepared for it.