Not sure how to start....

[gonnabehappy]

Husband had an affair which ended when she choose not to leave her husband. During this he moved out and told me categorically he did not love me (and had not loved me for ages) but he moved back as soon as the affair finished (lots of reasons for this) in Feb this year.

Why oh why can't I get it out of my head? I live with the images and words right at the front of my brain. he says and does all the right things but I don't believe him/trust him. I cry and scream and feel exhausted (quietly and at night when boys in bed) and then go back to making this happy home for them all. But all the time, whether during an outburst or in between I know that I am not good enough, if I do not keep things together or make him miserable my boys will have to live without their dad, that I am unattractive and old, way too old for him. I look at my lovley family and I hear him saying he wanted a new one - yes including probably a baby. A baby that I am now too old to have but would love.

Throughout I loved him, we have been togetrher for 27 years and I thought we could get through this - but how?

Gonna, so sorry you're still feeling like this. You have heard from us usual posters ad nauseum and really, I have nothing different to say. I'm hoping therefore that other people will come along and give you some fresh insights. Guess you didn't borrow the money for the counselling then?

Maybe you're asking the wrong question? Instead of asking how you'll get through it, perhaps ask why you want to? The answer might help.

I second what Whenwill says, you really do need to have a bit of counselling, both individually and together. Take the bull by the horns and give Relate a ring - I think our initial consultation was £50 and then they have a scale of charges based on what you can afford/income. We started on £60 a session that went down to £20 (very kind therapist) as it was obvious our outgoings etc were horrendous. How much is your happiness, your DC's happiness and marriage worth ?

FWIW, I'm still struggling too but I know in terms of "getting over" an affair, 6/7 months is still early days so I am trying not to be too hard on myself or DH. We also have a lot of financial c**p atm and I am really finding that tough too. We are going to try and go out one night this week as it's been a bad weekend (again).

I'm struggling with some of the things they (she?) had planned, a marriage on a tropical beach, taking all the DC (hers and mine) to Disneyworld, Florida, (where the money was coming from I don't know and I believe the mother's permission is needed to take the DC out of the country ) - DH said he just let her carry on with the plans and never contradicated her as it was easier for him which, judging by his state of mind then, was true.

I am beginning to stop the obessive thoughts more now, though I did have a dream on Saturday night whereby OW was stalking me and DH whilst we were on holiday together - I think it meant that she is stalking my happiness now IYSWIM, ie I am letting her get in the way of my happiness.

Keep posting because I know it helps me to talk about things as I don't really want to discuss the affair with anyone in RL although MIL asked how I was coping on Thursday and I said I was finding it hard at times and she did confirmed that he had had no emotional attachment to OW (he went to stay with his mum after leaving OW and had discussed some things with her). I know my DH hit the self destruct button (confirmed by therapist at Relate) but it doesn't take the hurt and sadness away ......

Try to stop dwelling on what has happened and focus on what is happening now. Try to stop obsessing about "the relationship" and think about yourself and what you want out of life. Your life does not have to revolve around "a relationship" - it is simply a state of being, not the be all or end all. People have thousands of different ways of living, in or out of relationships. Yours is not/was not idea/ - but point me in the direction of someone that has an ideal relationship - I have yet to meet that person.

I am sympathetic but I think you are being melodramatic. You are alive, you do not have a life threatening illness (I assume?) you have a family, you even have a partner who you seem to want to have around more than not (!!).

Heck, there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people who would be quite happy with that set of circumstances.

Your husband did something/s in the past that you were/are unhappy with, understandably so. But, you know, you can NEVER control what another person does. So it is really up to you to decide how and where you want to take your life forward. You could dump him/stay with him and always be angry/depressed etc/ meet someone else/take some time out. You decide - the ball(s) are in your court. Make the most of it and take some control.

Sorry if it sounds a bit harsh but you really are in a reasonably strong position here compared to a lot of people.

Think counselling would be helpful - it has helped so many people?

gonna - sorry you are still going through this.

Just as whenwill - you need to make the decision to not allow this to define your life any longer.

I wonder whether you think yourself a lesser person for not being able to 'get over' it?
It could then confirm what you have chosen at this time to believe about yourself - that you are not a good enough person.

Do you somehow like to be the victim?

Is there some part of you that wishes he had not come back? As then it would be his fault - whereas if you just cannot get over it then you will have failed??

You have not failed if you cannot get over this - but i can understand that it must feel like this - because you have the control you feel scared to make the 'wrong' move - but what is the RIGHT move for YOU?

How do I find my old threads? I would like to take another look.

Here you go Gonna:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/831945-healing-after-an-affair

and www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/840107-Over-or-under-reaction

Sorry have found them under advanced search. Back later. Feeling a bit bruised now, melodramatic, victim etc. Food for thought.

No, I did no borrow the money from my father - he ended up back in hospital and the last thing I would do right now is ask for cash. Husband not happy to do it anyway - he does not see the need to spend money on a counsellor (you may remember we have had a couple of crap attempts over the past two years at finding someone so I am finding it hard to convince myself let alone him).

My ADs have dropped to zero this week (reducing for past two months). Not a time to make big decisions but this is so hard. Feeling sorry for myself? Yep.

its ok to feel sorry for yourself.
But i do think you are putting too much of your happiness on your marriage.

Why not think "so what if he is not happy with me? He will be the fool for staying with you for the wrong reasons".?

However i still dont think you are happy that you are with him for the right reasons.
That is the decision you need to make - once you make that and are completely happy with YOUR decision then it will not matter what his motives are surely.

But it is also ok to have doubts from time to time and i am sure you are scared that if you say you cant cope anymore then it will be your fault that marriage failed and then what if you actually change your mind.

Keep talking though

Sorry - didn't mean to write anything hurtful - simply trying to say that don't give "him" too much power over you. Think about "you" and what you want.

All I am trying to say is that if it is possible to remove some of the very strong (and often negative) emotions from the picture, it can be possible to move into a place which is more positive - ie: think about you and how lucky hb is to be in your life - should YOU decide that he is worthy of being in your life. You might decide otherwise.....try not to give anyone else the power to ruin your life......that is all I am trying to say.

Heck, who needs men anyway.....???

Yes he is trying. It will be my fault. The boys really need their dad, perhaps more than they need me at the moment. They will know if their father leaves again it will be because I have failed again.

Some of this, I know, is because I am dropping the ADs. BUT I will not take them just to live a lie with a smile on my face. I need to be able to cope without. I feel very numb about husband at the moment. I am sort of hoping that stopping the tablets will enable me to feel good things again as well as bad. There just does not seem to be any good things to feel.

BTW I have done this slowly. Having done a fortnight on a quarter does I am now trying cut them completely. I can't work, I can't write. Just maybe stopping them will enable me to start writing again and that alone will help me feel better about myself.

The worse thing is I think he is trapped. He does not want us and has nothing else to go to. He says not but how can I ever believe I am really good enough now? He is a good and decent man, having seen how his departure affected the boys he just won't do it again unless I let him go/push him away.

No, darling, HE failed YOU and has left you feeling like crap about yourself when you did nothing wrong. He said some really horrible things to you and it is not at all surprising that they are still buzzing around in your head. If he's saying he did love you all along, it's more than likely true (you'll see from many, many other case histories that people lie to themselves as well as their partners to justify having an affair), but it is not surprising that you have difficulty believing him. So he jolly well should say and do the right things now, and he ought to be a bit more humble about the counselling too. He has done A Bad Thing, however "good and decent" he may be normally. He escaped into fantasy land for a while, leaving you to struggle on alone, then strolled back in when it suited him. You, the innocent party, are now suffering horribly because of his little escapade. He owes you BIG time.

You have every right to be angry, but instead it's turning in on you in feelings of worthlessness. The problem here is that your self esteem is in your boots. Counselling is good, if you can find a good one - I don't mean Relate, I mean one to one for yourself. Your GP may be able to refer you for a limited course free if you haven't already had some. This is about making you feel better, not about what your H has done, is doing or may do next. It's about you as a human being in need of help and encouragement. A deserving human being. Really. You wouldn't wish this on anyone else, would you? Be your own best friend and don't devalue yourself out of getting help.

FWIW (and having recently come off ADs for the second time myself) I would guess you are trying to ditch the ADs too soon. You are taking the right approach medically, with phasing them out, but psychologically it sounds as if you may need them for a while yet. Just a thought.

Oh, don't let me sign off this epic without adding: your boys do need you. They are your sons; how could they not need their mother? They suffered when their dad left, of course they did, but they still had you, otherwise they would have been in real trouble. They probably don't understand what you're going through at the moment as you try to protect them from it, and yes, they may believe if their father leaves it is your fault, but that belief would be mistaken. Either they don't know the truth, or your own low self esteem is leading you to underestimate them.

I thought you were thinking that it would be your fault.

Why - he destroyed the marriage - not you. Ok so maybe you werent the best wife in the world and he wanted something more - but HE was too coward to let you go.

Where is the rule that says you HAVE to get over it - ffs he destroyed you and now you think if you cant cope it is your fault??????

If he chooses to stay for the sake of the boys - let him (bigger fool him) he will be wasting his life. But that is not your problem.

You really do need to seperate what you feel and what you think he feels.

It is you that needs to feel good about your life.

Do you feel you somehow need to keep those feeling of hate alive? If you have a good time do you feel guilty. (how can someone like you dare to be happy - after all you couldnt even kick your cheating h out - what kind of worthless person you are?)

You can do this but you must stop thinking about his happiness and that it matters - only he can make himself happy and he has already proved what a selfish man he is.
Now you need to be a bit selfish - list some of the things you do just for you.

Bet its not very long - mine used to be nothing - and actually there is not a lot that is just me now tbh.
And i do know how hard it is to be selfish but you really will feel so much better when you get over the guilt of it.

Keep taliking and if you want you can emial me.

Whenwill and others

I have been sitting reading through old posts, I do understand that you (generic!) do not want to keep repeating yourselves with a hopeless case.

I have posed many of the questions that you suggested at various times. He is steadfast. he loves me, he will never leave (like we can believe that one), he knows it was wrong and is extremely upset and apologetic for the amount of hurt caused. One of his difficulties is that he works in a culture where affairs, new families etc is almsot the norm. Temptation is there all the time. He is fit, good looking and well works with a variety of people young and old.

The main difficulty is me. He says the right things and I don't believe him. I don't feel loved and to be honest I don't feel lovable. Life here is shit at the moment. I am fed up of explaining that I have a full time (more than full time) job and that he and the boys need to take responsibility for doing things. Last night I wrote out a schedule of household tasks for all of us. I showed it to him last night and asked if he thought it was OK - and we will tell the boys tonight. This morning for the first time I can remember he put a load of washing on before going to work (didn't actually turn the machine on but hey it was a start!). I did not say thank you - why should I, they were not my clothes my job. That feels mean though.

There is such a huge gap between where I am, how I feel, how I act etc. I think a lot of it is fear. I have not learned to live with the hurt I have at the moment - I can not risk any more.

Counselling - I keep thinking about it. Couples is no good - I would not believe anything he said in front of a counsellor any more than I believe him when we are alone. I could ask my father now for IC pennies (he is more stable and a very generous man) but I don't want to. It is all so complicated. My parents are both addicts of different types and their health is very poor. Alongside the addictions go manipulation. Asking for help gives ammunition to make me feel obliged to do more for them. I do not have time or energy to do more.

Life is full on enough at home. One boys had a lump removed last week and we are waiting for results, another is having treatment at Great Ormond Street tomorrow. I have fostered a 15 year old girl whose parents...well just are not there for her and I am determined to get her through her GCSEs successfully (the school are very supportive). It feels like a drop in centre here. Others of the same group have taken to turning up. Last night we had another girl - her other died last year and her father spends a lot of time at his new girlfriends house. She is so lonely and this time of year is always hard. There was a ld too - I am told him is very troubled but i do not know why. I tend not to ask just feed and tease and try and provide a safe place for these kids. My teenage years were shit. Family life very hard. I will do anything to prevent kids going off the rials like I did.

I have lost myself in everything else - lost everything good anyway, just hanging on the pain hurt and yes bitterness. I feel like I am playing a part. It is interesting to reflect on the possibility of me playing the victim here. Anyone knowing me in RL would laugh their socks off - is not my image at all. But perhaps some truth. I have had enough. I want to be cared for, to have meals cooked, to be taken out or even better away for the weekend. I walk the dog in the woods most days and that is my time out...but most days I walk now with a very vulnerable friend going through a nasty divorce. She is so alone, no children and no family nearby. I might be the only person she sees that day. Cant/wont stop that either.

Oh bugger reading this back through and your comments is going to be tough. I do find writing a diary helps but it (as you can imaging given my posts here!!!) goes round in circles. Change is needed but how? All the changes I can think of are for various reasons things I (choose to) will not do. Talk about own worst enemy. Have purchased CBT books - I do think that many people should be able to help themselves rather than run to counsellors. Will have a read but first will finish writing the next chapter - not here I promise!

Interested to see I have not answered the most common question - what do I want? I hate being with me (can't blame husband at all for not wanting to be with me). I am sickening myself with all this outpouring and self pity. But there is only one way out of that and, don't worry, I am not the suicidal type!!!! Seriously though I just want to get off this treadmill read trashy novels and sleep. A year or two should do it.

I want a loving, a passionately loving relationship with someone I respect and trust. Not just trust not to have an affair but really trust to be there for me and with me. I married very young (21) and I know (with my psychologists hat on)that I hoped for everything from my partner that I did not feel at my childhood home. Unreasonable yes - especially as I am not sure how I knew (know) how to take from a relationships. Throughout our marriage I have been the strong one, the decision maker, the cook. The one who worked at being (pretended to be) lovable. I have failed.

Gonna, you sound a bit like me at times, taking control of everything and being "controlling", caring to much for others etc. My therapist recommended a book - Co-dependent No More How to stop controlling others and Start caring for Yourself by Melody Beattie - you may have heard of it and indeed may have even read it. When you said your parents had various addictions I thought co-dependency may be a problem for you too and the fact that you are doing so much caring for others.

I have certain issues with co-dependency and the counselling certainly helped me. I keep dipping in and out of the book because tbh after the discovery of my H's affair I found I couldn't take it all on board straightaway with the shock of everything. I am very slowly changing - detaching myself, "removing the victim", dealing with anger etc. The book is good in that after every chapter there are "activites" to do.

gonna - that is so sad - that you dont like to be with you. But do you know what i feel the same sometimes - i always thought i was not good at being alone. And sometimes still i dont like it.
But because of all the work i have done on myself - i feel i can cope with it all.

You understandably want the 'perfect' marriage - but your view of that is not the reality you now have.

BUT - you will find a peace within yourself - and actually you may find your h doesnt like the new you - or if you work at this together maybe he will love the new you even more.

My h says he loves me more now than he did before - he can see what a loving and forgiving person i am and how very very different i am from the ow (and because he has looked at what he really wants he sees that she is not what he wants).
Sad thing is i dont think i love my h in the same way - and probably never will - he had the best of me before and actually i dont think i will ever give as much as i did then (in this marriage or any other relationship) because i gave too much of me away. iyswim.

Keep reading lots of help books if you think that will help - there will be something that makes it click for you.

And i am also with you on the trashy novel and sleep - but we both know we cannot do that - but how about a whole day of it? Small steps lead to big changes.

Take care

Nice idea but on 6.10 train to GOSH tomorrow and then son number two will be off school for two weeks or so. No more alone time for reading/sleep. Have talked a lot to husband today. He feels as though he has done everything wrong. He feels it is all about him. It isn't.

Very tired but will try and talk some more when boys in bed - 10.30 if a good day. Tomorrow is another day so they say. I love that quote... interesting that whole one is somewhat pertinent...

Scarlett O'Hara: "Tara. Home. I'll go home, and I'll think of some way to get him back. After all, tomorrow is another day"

At the moment I just want me back - a better me.

gonna it wont happen unless you work on yourself.

Actually i think it is pretty mean of your h is tell you he thinks it is all him - is that because he wants your sympathy??? And he knows you will say there there it is not you?
Has he talked to anyone else yet - does anyone else really know what went on?
If not that is why he may need some counselling - to help he see how he can help.

My h played the 'i feel so guilty' card quite alot - when it was pointed out that it actually didnt help me he changed.
But it sometimes does need someone else to point it out for them.

Good luck today - i used to work at GOSH.

HappyWoman - interesting comments about his guilt deflecting from how I feel, and in some ways you are right; his guilt and unhappiness makes me feel worse. On the other hand I am sure he is not deliberately doing this. He is struggling with how to help and I am not sure he can do anything to help if that kind of makes sense. I need to deal with how I feel. I just get caught in it all. Quite frankly becoming obsessive! I suspect it is not unrelated but I have started my period today. I suspect that and the decrease in ADs have contributed to how hopeless I have felt over the past few days.

Counting - I have considered codependency and in similar ways to many such concepts some things fit and some don't. Having said that some of the steps suggested to deal with the things that do fit might well be useful.

On the whole I think CBT has most to offer me right now. I need to take control of myself before I do more damage to evryone. I know the boys heard me crying last night...and that hurts all of us.

For my husband, he does need to be able to talk to someone other than me. It would help him and me. He will not even consider counselling. He does not talk to his sisters or mother - as a family they just don't talk at all. Guess that says a lot on its own.

Anyway what is done is done, the events of our childhoods and lives that have affected the events over the last couple of years can not be changed. The events can not be changed, things said can not be unsaid. I just need to get them out of my head. We need, I need, to deal with them. It is just so hard and I feel so useless. Each step forward appears to have a corresponding step or two back.

But, he is still here and I want him to be here. Guess I need t try and focus on these positives rather than all the negatives of the past. Wish I was not so ratty and tearful though! I am determined to stop ADs and stay off for at least a month but if I am still behaving badly then I will consider going back on them, for the same reason I started them - for my boys.

Thanks everyone - I do appreciate people talking to me. There is no one other than you I can talk to about this at the moment.

Yes what is done is done - and you cannot change that.

Finding out some of the reasons it happened though might help. It has taken about 3 years for my h to make some of the connections back to his past - now we cant change that but it does help me to know that he does take our relationship seriously enough to do this and that i think he can finally change the way he acts - and because he understands that he does not 'think' the same as others he can control himself. I am not just talking about not having another affair but about life generally - he used to be very impatient and would get angry at silly things - whist he knew he did this in the past, now he has a better understanding of why and it helps him deal with it. iyswim Doesnt always stop it but it does help. And i have seen a real change in a lot of the ways he is. He is less work focussed and more family and home, he used to always be onto the next project either at work or at home. whilst this is good in some ways he now sees that he has missed out on a lot of the more 'mundane' things and so we are able to share the normal family things.

please dont worry about your boys seeing you cry and please dont hide it from them. Does you h tell them why you are upset?
I think my dad may have had an affair - i remember my mum crying - at the time i would have always sided with my father (and probably still would). One of the things i struggle with is that i have no respect for my mum - and she became very resentful or my dad. I dont really respect my dad much either because i do feel he only stayed for us children. Not a happy childhood - which is one of the reasons i think i wanted a very happy home for my dc.

My dc do know what went on they were old enough to understand a bit - and as for not telling anyone - well a playground full of ears when my lo tells all is not the best feeling in the world. But strangely because of this people have not had to feel they have to hide - a lovely couple who still support us openly asked my h all about it. But it really helped him and me - watching him going over what happened and then declaring his love for me what the best tonic. He has since 'told' his story to others and it does strangely help.

I am sure there are some who think i am a mug but they are not true friends are they?

If your h talking is something you think would help YOU then you have a right to ask him to do that for you.

For me asking my h to tell me how he thinks i would have felt in a particular situation also helps - this is especially good with a third party - there is no brushing it under the carpet then.
Yes counselling is hard and it is not for everyone but i do feel that if you could sit and talk with someone else who could make you really listen to what the other is saying it will help.

As for you gonna - well again i have been thinking - there is no denying that what we have been through is hell and it is all too easy to see the negative side of this. Is there anything good you can say that has come out of this.
Here is my list

We have so much more us time, even been on some holidays just the two of us (i really dont think that would have happened unless the affair had happened).

I started working again - i love my job and will never give it up again. It is hard but having something that i could support myself on (if not the dc) makes me feel so much better.

I am not afraid to be alone - and i know i would cope and cope well.

I also got a nice new ring out of it.

This is still a work in progress but when i am having a down day i resolve to not be bitter and to focus on some of the good that has come of it.

Am i doing the right thing - i dont know but today i feel pretty good and that is all that matters.

Hope that helps - think about you now and be selfish - it is hard but you can do it.

Thank you. Am arranging a 'date' night tonight. Just need to make sure I don't ruin it! I feel so much better. I am sure TOTM had a lot to do with how I was feeling. It is not like me to feel so hopeless honest!

Today - arrange a date, paint toe nails (don't laugh!), write an outline for a chapter.

hope it goes well - instead of 'expecting' the worst
"hope i dont ruin it" start off by being positive. I know it sounds silly but honestly it does work.

I used to work with someone who was always doom and gloom - "oh no look whats happened thats awful" It was really hard work and i was so glad when she left. Just as many things go wrong but we try to keep on the bright side no matter what - how very british of us.

And certainly wouldnt laugh at the painted toenails - it really does give you a lift when you look down. Havent done mine for ages must put it on my list!