Fed up with my father - thinking of disowning him

[ladylush]

I know I'm going to come across as unreasonable but here goes..........

I'm really hacked off with my dad. We had a tenuous relationship anyway but since having dd I feel like not bothering with him.

4 months ago I gave birth to a very premature baby. My mum rang him to tell him I'd had the baby. He asked dh if he should come over straight away. Dh said to wait until a few weeks as we had a lot of support on board at that time but I might need help with ds in a few weeks time so I could visit dd at hospital. He said "ok" but ignored advice and came over that week, staying at my mum's house (who can't stand him but offered to put him up so that I wouldn't feel obliged to have him at my house)for 6 days. Felt so sorry for my mum. He contributed nothing towards his keep (didn't even bring a bottle of wine), ate constantly, didn't tidy up after himself, monopolised the tv, didn't get up til midday.........and as ever was extremely annoying. Before he came over he sent an email to his family (ergo mine) announcing the birth and commenting on our choice of name - saying we had gone for the American pronounciation rather than Irish and adding that the American version had come about as a result of ignorance. How fucking insensitive and rude Then he turned up at the hospital on the day I was being discharged (leaving dd behind in hospital) and acted disappointed when I explained that I wouldn't be able to see much of him because I would be spending all my time expressing, seeing dd and spending time with dh/ds (had been in hospital for 3 weeks prior to having dd). He said "Oh, I didn't think it through" - not "Don't worry - I will fit in around you.....let me know what I can do to help" His presence at that time made me feel under a lot of pressure. Everyone else managed to be sensitive and thoughtful but he only thinks of himself and his needs. He has been like that all my life. He didn't contribute financially towards our upbringing, never remembers birthdays, has no relationship with ds because he doesn't bother with him, ditto my brother. He was always unreliable when we were growing up - the only thing we could rely on was that he would let us down.
I know my emotions are still raw following the trauma of dd's birth but I am worried about how ruthless I'm feeling - I really am tempted to not bother seeing him again. I explained how I felt but he refused to see any wrong doing on his part. Sorry - bit rushed and rambling. Dd waking up.

He does sound like hard work and I get what you mean if someone cant be around to support you through the bad bits then what use are they really.

I would stop calling him and see how you feel after a few weeks break sorry you had such a hard time. Hope your dd is thriving now and that you and your family are getting lots of help and support.

He sounds very inconsiderate and insensitive person. He obviously upsets you - don't worry about making the decision re disowning him now, you have a baby to care about and that is what's important, not him.

I don't get the purpose of his visit though. It's not like he cares much for the new baby or you based on the info you gave about his behaviour in the past and in relation to your son.

I'd say don't bother seeing him NOW or if you absolutely have to then make it brief and have your DH around to take the pressure of communication off you.

Do you care what he thinks/feels if you tell him you don't want to see him at the moment? If not then just tell him.

I wouldn't have even bothered telling him the baby had been born to be honest.

the thing that confuses me is why you are merely thinking about disowning him.

Get rid.

Not trying to dismiss his TERRIBLE behaviour and I don't think you should excuse it at all but..

I think disowning him is a harsh tact to take...

He is still your father and while he doesn't sound like he deserves your love and attention, you really need to think it through before taking such a drastic step. How will you feel when he dies and you have not spoken to him in xx number of years?

He did make the effort to come over to see you, which sounds like more than he has done in the past.

I'm not saying he should be let off for his bad behaviour. Maybe when things have calmed down and you have a clear mind, you should sit down and talk to him about what makes you unhappy about your relationship?

I just think disowning him outright will damage you more than him in the long run.

Hmmm. When he stayed at your mums, you say he did nothing, ate everything and dared not even to bring wine?! Why didn't your mum say 'Hey I hope you will tidy that up/pay for the wine/get off the TV remote' If you all don't like him that much why are you miffed he didn't bring wine?

As for, 'Everyone else managed to be sensitive and thoughtful but he only thinks of himself and his needs.' Some people are just like that, especially when they go through life without being 'pulled up' as in the behaviour above. Of course he doesn't see anything unacceptable if it isn't ever pointed out to him

When he is dead, as one day he will be, how will you feel about disowning him because he didn't take wine to your mums house?

Halloween - it't not about wine......just using it as an example. I'd have thought the least you would do as a guest is bring a bottle of wine or flowers. Especially when you are staying for several days with your ex-wife and you know it's a big gesture on her part (yes, he did know this). I'm not thinking of disowning him because of his lack of thought re my mum - just his lack of thought in general. As for him not being aware of his actions.....he has been pulled up many times but never accepts responsibility. He either says "I didn't think" as if that's an excuse or deflects blame. He is imo quite narcissistic so thinks his presence in itself is a gift (which it would be if he was less thoughtless/selfish/full of himself).
Flipperty I have thought about what would happen if he died and I think I would feel terribly guilty but if I'm completely honest, not much of a loss I see him roughly once a year (at xmas) when he comes over because he combines it with a visit to friends. He usually stays here but I've told him I don't want him to visit this time. He emailed me to ask if he could visit (suggested date). I said I didn't want to see him as I felt we had stuff to sort out and that that weekend anyway was not possible anyway as his brother and sister are visiting us (which I'm sure he must have known). He then emailed to say he is coming over that weekend anyway and to let him know if I change my mind
According to my mum (and I'm aware she is biased) my dad thinks of family as possessions and that we have a duty towards him. Imo he came to see me after I had dd because he likes grand gestures - his timing was selfish. I'd have been happy to see him if he'd waited a couple of weeks. When we were growing up he was a shocking father but I tried to forge a relationship with him in my teens. It's never been close but I always felt a sense of responsibility to stay in touch. In some ways I feel the roles have been reversed due to his chaotic, unreliable personality and I have to take all that into consideration whenever he is coming over and psych myself up for it iyswim. E.g if he says he will be here in one hour it is more likely to be three, he misses flights because he is always late and he gets confused with phone numbers (despite me having the same one for years-hasn't deleted old one) so can't get in touch etc. etc. He is a liability. He told my mum that my brother will regret not having a better relationship with him when he's older (he never bothered with my brother). My mum said she doubts it
I honestly don't think I would regret it more than my dad if I sever contact. Despite that, despite the fact he brings no value to my life or my childrens.........I still feel guilty at the thought of disowning him.

slushy thanks - yes it was hard but I had fantastic support from family and friends and the staff at the NNU dd is thriving thanks I thought about leaving it for a few weeks but I've been battling these emotions for 4 months now and it's not getting any clearer.
mozarella thanks - yes I did tell him how I feel but instead of trying to understand how I felt, he tried to enlist sympathy for himself.
mrsboogie My mum told him dd had been born. Tbh I may have been tempted to leave it a few weeks before telling him dd had been born - just to get over the shock and compose myself before his visit. One of the things I found really hard was feeling so vulnerable at that time. I am usually a together kind of person and don't like feeling vulnerable but am ok if around people I am close to (dh, mum, bf). My dad would like to feel that I would rely on him for emotional support but I just don't have that relationship with him.
theusualsuspect guilt - that's why. I wish I had your conviction

Thanks for all your messages

Of course you feel guilty at the thought of disowning him. He's your father even if a crappy one. He sounds like he's taking all of you for granted and as your mum said, behaves as if you owe him something just because he's your father. Rubbish and I am sure you know that yourself. I am not surprised you feel guilty - if he's been behaving like that all your life then well, naturally part of you probably believes that you actually do owe him something! It's his way of manipulating you.

TBH you are being too nice to him. In your email you give wrong reasons of why he shouldn't come over at Xmas. It is not that you don't want him because you are busy and have your siblings over. It's because you don't want to see HIM! Your reasons mean nothing to him - why don't you just tell him straight in your next email that 'I did not change my mind, I DON'T want to see you for reasons outlined in my previous email and if they seem unimportant to you I then will be blunt- I DON'T WANT TO SEE YOU'. And repeat it if needed in your next email.

Mozarela - sorry I should have explained that when I said we had stuff to sort out I meant things to resolve between us. He knew what I meant. But saying that weekend was inconvenient anyway was a red herring and I agree I should have not bothered to say that. I was particularly pissed off that he asked whether he could visit that weekend and when I said no, he still booked it anyway with the expectation that I might change my mind. After his visit in July (when dd was born) I emailed him to say how I felt about the timing of his visit and the lack of empathy/consideration. He deflected it all - insisting that he had been empathetic and that he had thought he would be able to offer moral/practical help but since he realised he was just a burden, he was able to fit in wherever So why the expectations/lack of acknowledgement then? Manipulation - I agree with you.

Hi Lush.
I had a similar relationship with my Dad and I didn't speak to him for over a year before he died (he was an alcoholic) although I did make my peace with him just a few days before he died, which I am glad I did now.
I agree with the others that disowning him outright is maybe not the best thing to do for you, but you should definitely take control of the situation and only see him on your terms.
It took me till my 30s but I finally had to accept that my Dad was never going to be a 'proper' dad to me, I had my stepdad for that, so I treated him as a 'mate' where I called the shots on when/how/where I saw him and once my expectations were lower I actually got on OK with him. (Till he started on the drugs too but that's another story!)
You have been through a lot and I'm so glad your dd is thriving now (its a beautiful name BTW and don't let anyone tell you different!)

ladylush i sympathise, my mother is very much like this, all self self self but cannot see it and thinks she is the most reasonable woman alive!
Everything is about her, always and she rarely has anything nice or supportive to offer (just this week she's commented 'oh I hope youre induction isnt like mine, it was 4 days of agony' and today 'oh so the midwife thinks the baby has a head like humpty dumpty, that'll be nice for you ha ha' ).

I agree with the others that an outright disowning may be a step too far, and that you need to take control and dictate to him what is acceptable and what isnt. I know this is easier said than done though as have battled with myself recently over my mother wanting to stay after baby is born, NO WAY, but it is hard to stand firm.

Lush
I think you need to sort out in your head what you want from him.

My mum is very selfish and i have at times thought about disowning her (she is now ill so its not all her fault). However i now just see her when i want. If she turns up when it has not been arranged i just carry on as if nothing has happened.
It sounds as if you would not be bothered if he didnt come to see you so i would say just stop inviting him, and certainly dont 'expect' anything of him.

you dont have to be rude just get the relationship you want and if he cant give it then its his loss and not yours.

I still see my mum but it is by no means the relationship i would ever want (in my head i think i have detached from her completly) - not sure if she knows that or not and actually i dont see it as my problem.

I think you want to somehow 'punish' him by telling him how you feel when in fact it just makes you feel worse.

Try and just see him when and if you want to,and keep civil if you can - You may be surprised he may shape up but if he doesnt you have lost nothing.

PS - my parents never bring wine with them and it really gets to my h.

Ginnny hello I didn't know that about your dad The thing is, I don't love him and I don't remember when I did - I just feel a sense of responsibility towards him and that's all. I don't think I'm getting anything out of the relationship and would in many ways feel happier without him in my life - apart from the guilt.
mosschops sorry to hear about your difficult relationship with your mother Some people have no tact or sensitivity do they This is how my dad is. He had the cheek to say to me "You're mother is very overweight" after she had put him up for 6 days, put up with his annoying ways, endured him breaking various things in the house....... I told him he's not so slim himself and because he is so narcissistic he was really offended If I was to see him on my terms it would probably be once every two years I never invite him here - he invites himself over.
Good luck with your pregnancy and good luck with standing firm on the issue of your mum coming over after the birth
Happywoman hello I am quite clear in my head that don't want my dad in my life but due to guilt I feel I have to have minimal face to face contact/periodic emails/phone calls. There is too much water under the bridge and I have been too detached from him for so long that I don't have the energy or inclination to work towards fixing the problems. You are mistaken about me wanting to hurt him - actually I don't. I drafted an email being as honest as I could (not nasty - but the truth would hurt) but couldn't send it. If I thought it would help him understand/change, I would have that heart to heart with him........but I know it won't. It will just make me feel terrible. He is too narcissistic to own any blame.
Princesstoadstall sorry to hear about your relationship with your father On the face of it, his visit makes it seem as if he cares (and he believes he does care) but the timing was terrible and this is key. He asked my h - my h said no, come in a few weeks. He ignored that. He also knew that I felt the same after having ds - wanted a bit of a rest before he visited. He is selfish, selfish, selfish and completely ignores what others want, just suiting himself.

LL i have to agree with the others on here.
Disowning him is final. DP has done this with his dad and there really is no going back after this.
TBH it was following a complete apathy at any of our dc's being born and future celebrations r/e them. He felt he had to do this as he didn't want him to let down our dc's as he did him.
However it has massive ramifications further down the line.
I am not sure if you can still keep this relationship with your dad but on your terms ?

Hi LL A relationship on my terms is no relationship really - occasional face to face contact (e.g once a year) and infrequent phone calls. Dh made the point that cutting him off means cutting off other relationships e.g. my aunts/uncles/cousins - or at least making them difficult. I hadn't really thought about that.

Hi Lush - His behaviour is outrageous - if I were your mum I wouldn't have had him in the house 5 minutes - he could have jolly well found a b&b somewhere if he was going to treat the place like a hotel anyway!

But I don't think disowning him would do any good - especially if it has ramifications on the rest of your family. Why not just go back to keeping contact minimal - and if he turns up, tell him you're sorry, but you were about to go out and pack your dds under your arm and go round the block a few times until he goes away .

Try not to feel guilt - you didn't choose him, you are not responsible for his totally selfish attitude to life and family.

And your DD's name is lovely, whatever the 'correct' version of the pronunciation is. I actually like the American style in this case. Has your father no sense of the inevitable evolution of language?

Try not to let him get to you - he is highly unlikely to change and this probably upsets you more than him. Do you even have to have him at Christmas? Is there no where else he could go?

Thanks Tanee He chose to take my mum's offer of accommodation rather than a b+b because he is tight - ditto why he chose to stay 6 days (cheaper).

He's not coming for xmas - I told him I don't want to see him.

You're right - I didn't choose him. I've been looking at features of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and he ticks many of the boxes.

Oh and the name thing...........he is Irish and a traditionalist. He gets really annoyed when people mispronounce my name even though he insisted on giving me a very unusual name that non-Irish and even some Irish people have difficulty pronouncing I chose Irish names for my dc but as we live in England and I didn't want my dc to be self-conscious about their names as I was (think school register!) I chose anglicised versions. He hates that but it's none of his business.

I disowned my dad 15 years ago - I didn't make a big deal about it I just didn't contact him after an argument. I felt that I'd been the adult in the relationship until then and I'd had enough. I haven't spoken to him since, my db told him when each child was born and on one occassion aparently he asked for my address - but nothing. It does bite me on the bum at times - soppy father/daughter films etc but overal for my self preservation it was the best thing to do. My Dad sounds very similar to yours btw selfish, but full of grand gestures - I still think he'll turn up one day with a car full of presents for the dc's.

We can't tell you what to do, but it was the right thing for me. I will say that it was always on my mind a lot aruond the time each of my dc's were born, so I'd wait a bit for your hormones to die down.

Chloe thanks for your post. Sorry to hear that things got so bad between you and your father but glad the decision you made was right for you. I think you are right about the hormones. I went through a dark period after having my ds - very negative feelings towards my father that took a while to fade, then again after having dd. Only this time they haven't faded. I think having dc made me reflect on my own childhood. It brought me closer to my mum and made me more detached from my father.

There's no doubt that having children makes you look more closely at your own childhood. Mine was a pile of pants, but I'm learning to let it go - the only thing that makes my life now miserable is thinking about the past and what's the point in that. Try to hold off for a while, leave it be and just remind yourself that your focus is your baby and dd and what little energy you have left is best spent on you.

Chloehandbag - thanks you are right. Think I will try and chill for a bit and concentrate on me, the dc and dh