we love each other but can't live together. is it inevitable our marriage will end?

[wearynow]

....and if so, should I do something about it now? Or work at it/ hope it gets better.

(name-changed for this thread)

I really don't want it to end. I love my DH, but we just cannot live together and I'm worried we'll damage our 9 month old DS1, because we're always arguing.

And when we argue, things very quickly get nasty. Name-calling, accusations, shouting. That's not healthy for a child to grow up with, is it??

Basically, he's very tidy, neat, organised. But to an extreme. He's constantly complaining about how I do things, and I've really tried to do things how he likes, but I'm now going mad!!

I'm not a total sloven. I've lived with people/ partner before. But I spend half an hour each day before he gets home from work tidying the house so he won't get worked up about the mess!

I, on the other hand, don't want my son growing up in a house where he's scared to do things, explore and.. yes... sometimes make things slightly disordered!!!

I generally go along with it anyway, but it's compounded by the fact that he won't do anything that I would like him to do.

He won't leave doors/ baby gates closed when I ask him to. Says he'll be able to see if DS1 goes anywhere he shouldn't. This is despite me explaining that your attention only needs to be drawn away for a MOMENT for him to get somewhere he shouldn't be.

We had a massive arguement this morning, sparked by the fact that he took the lid off the re-usable nappy bin and put it away (despite me explaining that without it, DS1's room smells of wee/ammonia), and put the waste bin on the floor (despite me explaining that when it's on the floor DS1 'explores' it, and it's full of dirty tissues etc).
The only reason he did this was because I was the one that decided we should have a lid on and the bin off the floor. He says I should discuss things like this with him first and not just do them????

AGH!!! sounds so petty now I write it!!

But it's got out of hand. We're not speaking. I just want to move out but can't/won't.

I know the situation is usually reversed, so any mums out there who regularly pull their hair out about a messy DP/DH and can see it from his perspective.

Just want to cry. And really worried for DS1. Pleeeeease anyone any thoughts???

Hi Weary

It sounds a very similar situation to mine - my marriage feels like roles reserved too with me being the messy disorganised one constantly being pulled up and nagged by my DH - we are constantly arguing too.

I want to move out too as I cannot see an end to all of this but can't because of finances

If you can have a break from each other by any means I would do and see how you both feel then as it sounds like both of you are unhappy and unfulfilled by each other so he'll probably more than likely welcome this too.

Don't feel bad because you cannot change personality to keep somebody else happy. If you take action sooner rather than later then your DS won't be affected by the rows

Thanks Sun,

Wow! Somehow feel a little better just to know I'm not the only one!! Although really sorry you're also not happy.

Nagging is exactly the word I'd use!
So I wonder if I'm just being unfair by reacting to it? But yes, worried too that it's inevitable that it won't work.

Oh god! It feels so awful to write this, because I do really love him.

As it happens, we do quite often have 'breaks', cos he's often away for work. For a week at a time quite a lot. But the problem is now, I'm almost looking forward to these times. Just because it feels like a relief. Like I have a bit of space to be 'me' for a few days.

And weirdly, he's made it very clear that he really doesn't want me to move out. He somehow doesn't hink it's as bad as I do. Maybe because he just sees me as someone annoying to live with. Whereas I feel like I'm constantly looking over my shoulder and being nagged.

Sorry. Rambling. Just such a relief to talk about this finally. Even if just to myself!! ;-) I really would hate to leave him. I really would.

But I'm worried about DS1. AGGHHH!!! I don't know!!

He sounds very controlling which may be the real problem - the fact that he refused to allow you to have lid on the bin (for very sensible reasons) because you had not asked his permission!

I think that is the real issue in your marriage, power games, not tidiness.

I don't think you are being petty at all, I think your DH's attitude is bullying.

You could try going to relate and/or looking at compromises. Sit down and talk about it when you aren't arguing, and make some deals. Eg pettiness is not on - no doing things to make a point, that's just a waste of energy. Share out the jobs so that you both do your share, but try to allocate them so you each do jobs you prefer/find easiest. Consider having "zones" where each person's preference will reign - so for example, you agree to both keep the kitchen tidy, but a bedroom could be your zone where things can be more relaxed (or whatever - depends how many rooms you have). You need to respect each other's differences and both be willing to be a bit flexible without blaming the other person.

I'm the tidy organised one in our house and it has caused some rows but I think we've got better as we've both tried to fit in with each other more - but you do both have to do it. He needs to realise that just because he's tidier, doesn't mean he's necessarily right or better than you. But you also have to respect his need for tidiness but find ways you can limit it so he's not just demanding his own way.

It sounds like the issue is not his super-tidyness. It's his controlling behaviour.

Why do you need to run every decision past him? Why does he deliberately disregard something because you had the temerity not to run it past him first?

FFS you're his wife not an extremely junior employee.

Until he respects you and treats you with respect you won't be able to resolve this.

x-posted with YorkshireRose and her excellent post.

Thanks everyone. All good points. All really helpful. And actually agree with all of them to an extent!!

Yorkshire, Manic, you're right. He is controlling. And actually, he knows this. He's very intolerant/controlling/micromanaging at work too.
And, Manic, strangely, you've used the exact phrase that I use very often when we're arguing. He DOES make me feel like I'm employed by him. He does make me feel like he doesn't respect me. Mostly I feel like I'm a lodger in his house, rather than someone who has equal rights there!!

However, I kind of always knew he was controlling (although maybe not to this extent!!) so went into the marriage with my eyes open. So I almost feel like it was my decision and should live with it.

And, Madame, I also found your post very helpful. Thanks.
I do actually have a desk, and he 'lets' me have it how I like. But in the end it becomes a dumping ground for anything he thinks shouldn't be elsewhere in the house! And so that then gets me worked up.
And I do really understand that it's as unbearable for him to live in an untidy place as it is for me to be nagged all the time....

I have asked him to come to RElate with me. But he won't. And he won't support my desire to go. This is slightly difficult as all our money goes into a joint account!!

You're right about the list of chores, because I would say he contributes more towards household than me, in some ways, although I think sometimes this is his 'choice' because he spends time on things that I think are unneccessary.

Oh dear. So he IS controlling, but I need to find a way to live with it. I think Relate is a start, even uf I go on my own....

OP I'm in the same boat! Not quite as extreme maybe but definitely a problem. DH and I have joked we should live nextdoor to eachother - actually, not convinced he was joking. As another poster has said I think this is deeper rooted, as when we first lived together it was never an issue. Like you I do actually enjoy when DH is away as I can be myself rather than have to tidy up constantly. I have tried to change but don't think I can - tidiness just doesn't come naturally to me

Oh thanks, bluejeans. Another one!

but, seriously, reassuring to know you also slightly relieved when DH away. I thought that was a sign it was over!

I do miss him too....

If this issue is going to be resolved then BOTH partners have to want to sort it out and be prepared to compromise - it is not fair that you are bending over backwards to accomodate his obsessions but he will not even acknowledge that he is being in any way unreasonable.

Men often resist going to the likes of Relate - they HATE having to open up in this way. What is stopping you going by yourself? You don't need your DH's permission, you are an adult. Tell him you are going, but don't ask him if you are allowed to!

weary I do look forward to DH going away, but then look forward to him coming home!

If you´re busy with a baby & keeping the house to a reasonable standard, then I think if it´s not good enough, he should pitch in!

we have separate houses....and it works! who says you have to share a house just cos you're married/in a relationship....there is no rule book!

ILoveTIFFANY tell me more - did you used to live together?

no....never lived together. we met just after i had left my ex,had 4 dc so was concentrating on rebuilding my life.

he lives and works 50 miles away and gets 'london' pay which he wouldn't get here if he changed jobs. shares a house and mortgage with his brother.

works for us. he can be as tidy/untidy as he likes,but he respects my home,we never really argue as its all quality time. not perfect i guess as ds gets older,but can't see things changing really

It seems he is unwilling to compromise and without that I don't hold out much hope for your relationship in the long run.

My dh consented to Relate because I told him I couldn't see a way to continue our marriage otherwise. I meant it, and you will probably have to mean it too.

I remember being in the kitchen once cutting a slice of cheese with the knife I favoured, and stopping myself because dh had told me for 3 years that that was the wrong knife for cheese and I should use a different one (which I found painful to hold and impossible to use). It was at that point I realised enough was enough and issued my ultimation. Don't wait for that moment; it's not worth it.

The longer you leave this, the worse it will become and harder to deal with every day that goes by.

oh god! so down about this now.
Just went in to him and tried to open up the conversation again by apologising for the nasty things I said earlier....
But all he hears is the apology. Therefore I'm wrong and he's right. And when I try to put forward some of the things I got worked up about, he just says I've ruined his last "family day" (he'd pencilled us in for a few hours before he goes away for a week again tomorrow)

Having said that, though, the idea of living separately does chill me so much. I do really love him. So, Tiffany I love that that works for you, and can totally understand why you might do it... but I HOPE it's not me yet....

But Jux, you're right. That's just it. The refusal to compromise on really important things like counselling.
And the cheee knife thing. There's so many things I do because he tells me I should. Not because I think it's right/ necessary.

Realitybites yes I have been known to kick out and do the petty things just to wind him up. :-) But that's the point. It winds him up. So I give in.
Believe it or not, no I didn't move into his house. We chose it, and bought it, together.

YorkshireRose much as I'd like to say stuff him and I don't need his permission for counselling, there is the money to think about. We basically pool all our money, so I can't just dip into it on a whim.
AGH!!! how flipping 1950s wife do I sound??? When I write all this here I just feel so embarrassed that I've let it get like this.

Guess the next step is to ring Relate and start from there....

weary - it's not a whim. You are trying to save your marriage. You have tried to get him to see sense but he won't listen so you have to take action yourself. He will find divorce a lot more expensive.

But I think you realised that as you wrote it down? Please ring Relate on Monday and take control of this.

Yep YR. As I write this I realise I sound like the kind of person I'd want to slap (in a nice way, hopefully!!) if they were saying all this to me.

I thought I was an intelligent, independent woman!! I was 30 when I met him. Had a life. Was fine. What's going on??????

As much as anything, it's such a relief to talk about this. It's really the first time I've done so. I guess I don't really want to admit it to anyone in RL...

And it's clarified so much for me.

So, yes, I know Relate is the way to go.

Deep breath.....

tried to say a lot of things, but nothing is coming out right.. I am in very similar situation.. a little bit too close to home.if you really want to save it you have to make him see how serious this is. You are not just a little bit upset, but you believe that things are headed down the wrong path and you are trying to fix things now before they get out of hand. Does he know that you are thinking along the lines of saving your marriage.. not just a bit upset??

Good luck weary. Hope you can get through to your DH, you must make him see how serious you are.

Off to bed now, please come back and let us know how you get on.

Why do you 'love' someone who clearly sees you as a subordinate/appliance/object? This is not about you or him being tidy or untidy, the fact that he took the lid of the nappy bin (which, you know, anyone with half a brain would know is a fairly unhygeinic thing to do) because it wasn't his idea to have a lid on it makes it extremely clear that his agenda is to make you obey and submit, because he is The Man and you are only a 'woman'.