Worried about our friends going abroad with a new baby

[loonpants]

We have some close friends wo are expecting their first baby in March. Like many childless couples, they have no idea about the realities or practicalities of having babies and children. They go away most weekends (often abroad), go skiing every year etc. They live their lives in the moment and the husband is notoriously disorganised.

He has decided that they will up sticks for twelve months and move to a remote town in the USA as there are some job opportunities there which will enhance his career prospects in the uk. His wife was very dubious about this but has been talked round.

He has accepted a job which starts when the baby (if it's born on time) will be four weeks old. I'm really concerned about them - particularly about his wife. I have lived abroad with a child myself but my daughter was 18 months when we left and that's not the same as taking a four week old baby. It was easily the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

Aside from anything, I can't think how on earth they will sort themselves out with all the equipment they need and transport it to the USA. She won't have a health visitor. They won't be registered for the immunisations.

I have mentioned my concerns and their response was "it might be great".

Has anyone ever seen anyone successfully cope with this sort of thing with such a small baby? I guess they are going to go to the USA regardless so I have considered writing some ideas down for things I think they need to consider when they are planning (for example, we took our car seat to live abroad and found it was illegal because it was not an isofix).

Should I write these things down or just let them get on with it? I don't want to be all interfering but I'm genuinely concerned. The wife is abit younger then me (7 years) and I now have two kids so I've done it.

Babies are entirely portable - the smaller they are the more portable they are. How much equipment does a tiny baby need for goodness sake? And don't you think they have shops in the USA? I can't believe this is a serious post.

Are you sure he won't have insurance? I think pretty much everyone who is employed in the US get's health insurance (not always enough) included.
I would NEVER go to the USA with or without a child if I didn't have some serious health cover. My Dad ended up with a $400 fee to see a local GP (twice over 3 days) and be prescribed antibiotics. Lucky he had good travel insurance!

If they do have insurance I see no problem. They will register with a GP, tell them how old thier baby is and thereby be told when vaccinations are due.

they wil be fine -he and his wife can email the new colleagues in advance and i am sure they will all chip in to provide whatever babies need - americans have babies too.

i do not think they should take loads of equipment - maybe a basic carry on baby seat - check with airline if tehy can take it on board - or if airline provides a cot - (cheapest so that if not compatible with cars etc out there it isnt a problem) and that is it!

i doubt he is not given insurance as part of his package - he should check of course but would be highly unlikely.

havng a baby may give the wife an easy way into meeting new people baby groups and so on.

give them a "what to expect baby's first year" book if you like...

You sound a bit patronising to be honest. Leave them to it. They are grown ups and I'm sure they realise it will be hard but whats the worst that can happen?
If they are determined to go then you need to but out and let them.

i think at the end of the day, you just need to accept that they are grown-ups and can made their own decisions. It sounds from your OP that they are pretty spontaneous and chaotic; some people thrive on that sort of lifestyle. If they do go and it all goes tits up then they will know you are there at the end of the phone line to support them. But if you have offered advice and they have dismissed it, i don't think really you can/should do anymore. And in terms of saying you have two children and you have done it and this couple are child free and essentially naive, we all have to start somewhere! I know you care, but some times you just have to let people get on with it and live their own life. Just be there for them if things don't quite work out as they expect...

I know it's hard when you see other people making totally unrealistic plans (especially with children involved).

It is SO tempting to say "I've been there, done it etc."

The thing is, I've found that people don't really listen if they have settled on something.

I think you have to step back and leave them to it (as everyone else says).

I have been in this situation with bf advice, I REALLY wanted to help out friends/family, worried myself sick about them, whereas in the end they just did what they wanted anyway.

they are lucky to have a friend who cares as much as you do. but they really will manage and if they dont, you can be there to help them pick up the pieces. what can you do? you have already pointed out the risks- they might get a rude awakening but htat is what friends are for. they might be back sooner than they had planned for if they cant afford it. keep being there for them and just leave them to it now.... or you risk losing their friendship over it

The best thing you can do is support her to bf, if that is what she wants to do. Then it will be as easy as anything to move the baby around the world with no equipment at all except nappies. They will probably hire a car when first arriving and the hire co will provide a suitable legal car seat!

And they will need to get on with registering the birth and getting a passport asap.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to point out to them that they may need to be a bit flexible with their flights - or she may at least. That could save them a lot of money and stress. I know you and I know that babies don't always arrive on or by their due date but I remember being quite surprised when I realised my dd1 was going to be late - 15 days late in fact - so they may not have thought about that.

Everything else I think you have to let them discover. It's their lives and their baby and you nagging them about every detail won't help them to plan, just put stress on all of you. There's nothing you could say anyway that won't already have been said by their parents anyway....

I know people who have done much madder stuff than this. Newborns are heaps less work than 18mth olds IME.

If they ask for help/advice give it, if not as adults they can do what they like.

We are only in London until baby is born and citizenship/passport stuff sorted, then I am off!

'Has anyone ever seen anyone successfully cope with this sort of thing with such a small baby?'

I was carted out to sub-Saharan Africa 50 years ago as a newborn, and I'm still here! (Well not 'here' as in Africa...but here on earth)

And I'm pretty sure there was no such thing as a health visitor or car seats in those days in that particular country!! Or indeed even now!!

Hm, in terms of the success of the move, I think that the newborn itself will have the biggest role. I wonder whether a lot of people here had a baby that actually slept occasionally. I hear that such a baby does exist, similarly one that does not scream constantly and refuse to be comforted. Obviously, I did not have one of those babies!

Not that it changes the advise to loonpants - if they don't want her advise then it would be rude to foist it upon them. But it would explain the difference between the "Babies are portable and fun!" camp and the "My God! That will be difficult!" camp.

Why are you getting so involved in this? It's really none of your business, fine post about your worries if you are moving abroad but posting about your friends' perceived problems is bizarre.

From my experience...
When DS was born, DH was doing his Masters in the UK (DS was born in Brazil). We travelled from Brazil mid-summer to Liverpool mid-winter with a six-week-old to live for 6 months in Uni hall of residence (so pretty basic infrastructure). It was fine. Really.

When DS was 5 months old we moved to rural USA. Despite my reservations it was a great move. Having a baby in a small town is a brilliant way to meet people and your bf may find she integrates very quickly.

BUT DH's work relocated us and we had to deal with very few of the usual practical headaches (they found us a house, set up with a professional relocation agent, sorted out visas, bank accounts, etc). And crucially very good health insurance benefits come with the job. We'd be broke by now if it wasn't for that, I'd say.

When I moved here I got lots of support and advice from mnetters her in the USA.

Why don't you tell your friend about mn?

They do sell baby stuff in America & if they want, they can get a container & ship their own stuff over. They will probably be able to get health insurance or pay for the immunisations, if they wish to do it.

My 'friend' once told me that I was selfish to take my then 20mth old dd on a plane to Australia because her dd suffered painful ears & cried all the way to Spain when they went away. My dd was fine...so moral of this story is that what happens to you (living abroad being hard) may well not happen to them!

Moving to Australia was the making of me! I had dd2 here, learnt to drive, started to cook & bake from scratch. I won't be heading back, & there is the real possibility that they may love it & not to want to some back!

Let them get on with it, wish them well! By all means let her know what you know (about car seat etc) but don't try & change her mind. She may resent you if she misses this opportunity based on your misgivings!

I moved to a third world country for a few years, and the baby still got its vaccinations (plus a few extra ones!).

It´s an adventure, it could be great. Yes, it´s hard work too.

RE equipment...that´s all in the mind, if you breastfeed and carry baby in a sling all you need is a little bed for her.

You do need private healtcare though, that bit is very important, as there´s no NHS to fall back on.

MmeGoblindt nakes a very good point. Just because you found moving abroad incredibly hard and stressful doesn't mean everyone will. I moved abroad 12 months ago with my (then) 2 year old and 6 month old. Sure, there was a lot to do, and there were things to get used to when we got here, but it was fine. Not even in my 'top 10' of most stressful things ever.

Some people are very laid back with a newborn. My good friend recently had a baby and she has hardly put a dent in their lives. They still travel, they just take her with them!

I think it is fair to say that most people find simply becoming parents is a big adjustment (not necessarily in a bad way but still, a big change to get used to). And some people find a move abroad to be a big adjustment too -- but not everyone, some people take such things in their stride.

Just be there for them, both now and on the phone or whatever after they go. Hopefully they will be totally fine but if not, well, you have to let them make their own mistakes.

I think you said that the woman wasn't keen to begin with, but has been persuaded? I guess that would be my main red falg for concern if it was a friend of mine -- that she is just trying to convince herself it will be great but doesn't actually believe it. If she is reluctant and then it turns out to be tough on her, I could see that being a trigger for PND if she's far away from her support network and everything is unfamiliar. But then again, it might be fine, so much depends on the person.

It's good that you care

er, red flag, not falg

I think its lovely that you care. I don't think you're being negative, you're just worried they're ignoring the practicalities. However, I do think that if you try and raise this with them again you may really upset them, and it might come across as disapproving of their plans rather than trying to be helpful.

but maybe nearer the time your friend will choose to ask you for advice, or to chat about the practicalities, and that would be the time to help her, by offering your support and practical knowledge.

My cousin did this. She had one year maternity leave, he took a 1 year sabbatical, and they rented a small villa in Mexico. They had a housekeeper, who sometimes minded the baby. They both took spanish classes, they both learnt to scuba dive, and spent many a lovely afternoon in a hammoc sipping cold margaritas. They had a fab time! They planned on doing the same in Thailand when their second was born, but as he had heart problems, they stayed home.