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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

cliquey school gate mothers!!!

44 replies

mummee09v · 02/10/2009 11:14

my DS aged 3 started p/t school at the beginning of september and i have noticed since then that all the mums of the other kids in his class seem to talk to eachother but not to me!

i do talk to one or 2 of them but only because i know them from before, from a mum and toddler group i used to take my son to. but all the other mums completely blank me (yet talk to my friends from the mums group) and i don't understand why. me and my kids are always dressed nicely, i look ok, i am approachable, i'm just like any of them. and i know that my son is friends with all the children in the class so theres no problem there.

i have tried to smile and say hello to them and make conversation etc, but don't get much of a response. and to be honest a lot of them seem to look at me a bit bitchily.

i shouldn't care but i do! i thought by this time i would have at least got to know a few of them even just to speak to. i feel a right billy no mates!

OP posts:
Crusher · 03/10/2009 13:17

You could be right about the jealousy and it's hurtful that women can behave in this way. Fathers in the playground are usually more approachable and easier to talk to. It's easy for some people who have made great friends to dismiss your concerns: it doesn't help you feel any better about yourself or your situation.

Don't worry too much as it is early days but try and find a group of people who are friendlier.

freename · 03/10/2009 13:33

crusher can you imagine the reaction awaiting her - she is attractive, well dressed AND she is talks to the friendly dads! Will just give them more ammunition surely?

WhenwillIfeelnormal · 03/10/2009 14:03

I'll cut to the bottom line first on this one. The friendships you make at your childrens' school can be life-enhancing and a fantastic source of support. Making friends with other parents is a win-win situation. Your kids will benefit because other parents will encourage the childrens' friendships (especially in the "play date and parties" years) if they like you and your partner. You win, because you are meeting and liking new and different people and having very local friends enhances a sense of community.

However...it can sometimes take a while to suss out who you are going to choose as your friends. I read an article once about this and the writer made what I think is a very valid point. When we are at school, there is no compulsion for anyone to like us. In adult life and the workplace, people are forced to engage and therefore once they get to know us (because they HAVE to), they start to like us and they therefore forget that their initial impression of us wasn't that great.

Even in other adult situations, there is a compulsion of some sort for people to get to know us (adult courses when you have to collaborate, mutual friendships etc.). However, when we are parents in a school playground, this is the one situation where as adults, there is absolutely no compulsion to get to know anyone and like them. We therefore revert to sticking with our first impressions of people and not moving past them. In a completely non-sexual way, we "fancy" the look of some parents and not others - and we don't question that at all.

Into the mix then, we have some heady stuff about our own view of ourselves and our previous experiences when we were at school. If you enjoyed school, felt that by the end of it you fitted in very well and made good friends then and since, your approach to all this is going to be positive. If on the other hand you had that feeling of not "fitting in" when you were at school - that people didn't really "get you", or worse still, you were bullied by other girls, you are subconsciously taking that into the playground with you now. In some ways, it's even worse because you know instinctively that this may affect your child fitting in too.

The other thing to consider is the impression you are giving these women. You say they live on an estate and you live just off it. You take great care with your appearance - and although you don't say it - I get the impression that they don't? We may therefore have a tricky combination of THEM feeling insecure and wary of you - and you feeling superior in some way to them.

At the moment, I suspect this is not in your imagination at all. When my oldest started school, I remember only too well a group of women who really thought they were the bees knees and seemed to compete about which one was the "best mother". They went on every school trip, helped out at the school every day, spent hours in the playground before and after school discussing other children and their family situations in a "Tutt Tutt" kind of way. One friend of mine was often so hurt by their behaviour - on their own they would talk to her quite happily, but they would then freeze her out if one of their group turned up.

They never bothered me, because I've always been pretty secure in myself. I had absolutely no desire to become friends with them anyway, because they weren't earthy or passionate enough for me. They all seemed a bit brittle and "stepford wifeish" to me. Fortunately, my oldest never much liked their kids either, so there was no "compulsion" to make friends!

I made a few mistakes along the way too though. I was flattered at being wooed by the Chair of the PA who seemed to be the absolute Queen Bee of the playground and unfortunately, her horrible son really liked mine, so I encouraged that friendship for my own sake really -and not my son's. After a while, I realised that this woman spent her whole life gossiping about others in the playyground and she told me confidences about people that should never have been shared.

I sussed out pretty early on that I would never tell her something I wasn't happy for the world to know and I will always be grateful for that early wisdom. Eventually, I sussed out that all this PTA activity and obsession with school life was really a mask for this woman's own rubbish marriage. When she started telling me horrible stuff about people I'd grown to like - and I stuck up for them - our friendship naturally waned. God knows what she said about me, I'm sure she used to make stuff up half the time. It seemed pretty improbable to me that the playground was full of alcoholics, wife-beaters, porn stars and prostitute users!

In those primary school years, I made some great friends and we remain so to this day. We'd have been friends anyway, you see. It took a while to sort out the wheat from the chaff, but my demeanour with all of the parents was friendly right from the start.

So keep being friendly. Give it time and eventually, people will find they "have to" get to know you through the children. They will then realise that their first impressions were wrong and they might even forget what they were. At the moment you see, they just don't "fancy you", but they will in time, once you've all got rid of the complex baggage we all bring when we start at our childrens' school gates.

llareggub · 03/10/2009 14:05

I've been doing the school-run twice a week since February and at first I thought people seemed cliquey. Then I realised that I'm only there two days a week, so that is only four times to strike up a conversation. It probably amounts to only about 10 minutes or so each day, if that.

As time has gone on, I'm now on speaking terms with most people, except for the smokers who huddle underneath the bus-stop. They only speak to each other! Familiarity in my case hasn't bred contempt, but rather the opposite.

Just give it time. As others have said, smile and strike up conversations. Volunteer to help out at things and be generally helpful. In my experience, if you try and look at things positively then things generally work out OK. You can't really expect instant friendships.

Maggie34Behave · 03/10/2009 14:16

Combination of all the replies here really!

3 years ago I looked at the mums at the school gate and thought what a motley crew. There seemed to be something odd about most of them! (ha, but no me!? I was the oddest of them all). Roll forward 3 years and most of them are really funny and good company but we're not actually in eachothers pockets. Just friendly. I have clicked with one or two of them.

I clicked with a woman whose son will be my son's class but they haven't started yet iyswim.

So, my answer is a combination of don't worry about trying to win over people who are blanking you & see how it all pans out...

freename · 03/10/2009 14:38

Some good points whenwill

I didn't have any expectations and made myself available to anyone who made an effort with me. I wasn't fussed about 'forcing' friendships between the children (some mums were really hot on this). For some reason this grates with me but there you go....
I did make mistakes along the way but nothing that couldn't be remedied. I did find that there is always someone who gives you that bad vibe before they've even got to know you. Nothing you can do about those people because it's about them not you.
I now have a few good friends throughout the school (not all in my DCs classes or years).
In my particular case they all have DHs that get along with my DH and their kids get along with my kids (despite age differences in some cases). Perhaps I was subconciously looking for that on my radar? Don't know.
Interestingly you wouldn't think I had any friends in the playground as further up the school older kids make their own way home and other years parents wait elsewhere so unless I go and stand by their class I wouldn't get to speak to them iyswim? We communicate through phone, text and email these days and hardly ever in the playground!

DandyLioness · 03/10/2009 15:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Conundrumish · 03/10/2009 15:40

I don't mind being ignored in the playground if that happens. What I detest is people chatting as though I am their best friend when there is no-one higher up the social pecking order around, and then not even smiling hello when there is.

One of these women recently came gushing into toddlers stroking my arm and chatting. The next time her friend was there and she didn't even acknowledge me. Last night we had a parents' night out and I was quite intrigued by her behaviour; quite a few of the things she said showed that it is really really important to her to be popular and in the centre of the organisation of things. I went away feeling a bit sorry for someone whose whole life is focused on being popular and being queen bee. She must be quite an empty and shallow person really.

I would feel sorry for these people and just keep your head down and keep it light for now. Things will change and I am sure someone else will come along for them to be funny with.

crokky · 03/10/2009 16:17

My mum says that you should let the child choose their friends and then you can be friends with the child's mum. I am adopting that approach!

However, if someone speaks to me in the playground, I will happily speak to them and I would never blank anyone. I don't initiate things because I don't want to be made to feel that I am in the playground again. I am an adult woman and concentrate on the people who are really important to me. If a child becomes a good friend of my DC, I will make an effort with the child and his/her parents. I won't just go making friends with random parents for the sake of it.

forehead · 03/10/2009 18:30

I find all this school gate politics ridiculous. I am always astonished by the number of posts about this topic. I am sure it exists, however i am so secure in myself, that i couldn't give a cow's ass who blanks me or not. I believe that many of these woman are shallow,insecure women who have nothing better to do than engage in gossip. I wouldn't be surprised if they are jealous of you. If they are, then that's their problem, not yours.

poshsinglemum · 03/10/2009 18:58

Things really don't change from being a student at school to being a school run mum do they? I think it's amusing in some ways but I can understand why people get liek this.

Such snobby mume are probably very concerned thta their child is the best and is highest in the social pecking order. This leaves other women worried that their children won't fit in. Really we should be modelling how to get on with everyone to our children but sadly lots of mums aren't like this.

You shouldn't be ashamed or apologetic for making an effort with your appearance op. I like to make an effort too and it makes me feel good. If other women have a problem with it it's their problem not yours.

poshsinglemum · 03/10/2009 18:58

sorry about bad spelling.

tryingherbest · 03/10/2009 19:42

Well, I live opposite a school - the school my ds will go to next year and I see it for myself mumme09v - you get some right little gangs going on. Can't say I'm looking forward to it.

Mummeee - be yourself - if alot of the women at the school gates seem the like the type that have nooo other life except that little circle of school mums than so be it - do you really want to be with them anyhow?

Just go - pick up your kid and do a runner as that's what I'm planning. If you need to perform some kind of playground ritual yourself to be in the 'group' then they are not your (or my) type of people.

The one piece of advice my ddad gave me when I was pregnant is that the most demoralising of people can be other mothers and boy was he right - lots of nice ones but the gangy sort are a real bummer and make you feel down - but only if you let 'em.

GuessHowMuchILoveYou · 03/10/2009 22:40

.....and then, one day you will meet someone like me!!!
I am a mum with a dd in yr4, ds in reception and another ds starting next September. Went to the same school myself, small village in quite an affluent area.
Obvious divide between the mums that go to work and the SAHMs. Working mums tend to be more together in the morning, and SAHMs are flung together.
I am friends with both.
I am a parent governor and also on the PTA. I run the playgroup which is attached to the school(but will be stopping this when my ds starts next yr)
Am on first name terms with all the staff, BUT, nobody at the school gates would know that.
I always introduce myself to new mums especially those with no-one with them. I usually find them a buddy, someone I know who will take them under their wing.
Let's face it, when your kids start school it's a really daunting period in yr life!!
When I first went to the school playgroup(9yrs ago, before I took it over) I remember walking in...all conversation stopped.... they looked at me....alll conversation resumed and I was basically ignored!!! WTF I thought, this is NOT gonna get the better of me. ..and it hasn't!
Ask one of them if they saw..I don't know...whatever was interesting on telly last night....how to make child friendly curry....whether they are gonna be havin a birthday party this yr....
you will make some really good friends in time.

mumof2monsters · 05/10/2009 23:11

Guess you sound like a really nice person and I wish that you were at my kids school. Something happened to me today that upset me. I posted it on another thread and will post it again below :

I was stood at the school today waiting for my kids and stood with some of the mums who I have stood and chatted to for the last year.
They were all talking about their christmas night out and what they were going to eat etc but no-one had invited me
I felt really awkward and left out and it took me back to being in the school playground 30 years ago. I felt so awkward I walked off.
I have been invited on nights out in the past by one of the mums in the group who I knew for a while before the others but never been able to go as my hubby and I work shifts. Recently I have been a little withdrawn from them as one of my close friends shot himself dead four weeks ago and I have struggled to cope and not been particularly sociable.
I did tell one of the mums who I knew well about his. The mum I know really well was not there today.
I felt so awkward and really upset and left out. I wish they had not discussed infront of me. I just feel like they don't like me . {sad}

Do you know what tho after finding this thred have decided sod them all I don't need this. It feels like being back at school all over again. I am 40 now not 14!!!

Tryharder · 05/10/2009 23:54

I am amazed by this thread.

I have just started the whole school run thing in September which is an extension of the nursery run really. Some mums I know and chat to, others I don't know from Adam, will smile if I catch their eyes but that's it really. My DS1 has made 3 or 4 new friends and so I have had a conversation with the mums on the basis of that. There are also a few mums that walk the same way as us - sometimes we all walk together, sometimes we don't.

I can quite honestly say that I haven't noticed any cliques and all the politics outlined above have passed me by. I mean, in the end you turn up, drop your DC off and repeat 6 hours later.

But OP, be honest with us, if you are made up, designer clothes, etc when all the others are in jeans and fleeces then perhaps they are intimidated and think that you don't want to talk to them. I also think you have to persevere with people sometimes. There is a woman I have known for several years at the school/nursery gate who absolutely refuses to say hello unless you walk up to her and practically shout hello in her face. It took me ages to realise that she's actually not an unfriendly bint just painfully shy.

Sorry long post but I think you are probably worrying about nothing - it's only a school run when all is said and done.

motherlovebone · 06/10/2009 09:47

also, why do you want to befriend this particular group so much if they are continually rejecting you?

mummee09v · 06/10/2009 11:23

motherlovebone - i DON'T particular want to befriend them i just want to know WHY they don't seem to like me!!!!!!

mumof2monsters - how absolutely rude and ignorant of them to blatantly discuss their night out when they haven't invited you!!! what nasty, spiteful people, to me, that is as bad as actual bullying.i wish you were at my son's school too! lol. xxx

OP posts:
Mummiehunnie · 06/10/2009 12:45

Hi, please stop focusing on these people and look at talking to someone else in the playground as you are going to get very upset by it all, you will all have dealings for years to come and it may affect your child.

I was scooped up not through choice into a clique when my youngest was in nursery, by the end of year one I was being pushed out, it was small moves that made it obvious, no idea why, but I noticed as the years went on that one by one, others were included and others pushed out, all very cloak and dagger, no arguments, and you have no idea why it happens, it is all very low grade. There is no rhyme or reason to it all either.

From what I can gather there is a queen bea and she is in charge of who is accepted or not accepted, she picks and chooses people that suit her life situation at that time, goodness knows why she dumped some people from the group as they were nice people, one theory is that she was jealous that one ladies son is very very bright and she found him a threat to her son who is average, so out went his mum...

I did not really care when I was pushed out did not spend too much time thinking about it, just spoke to other people and moved on in life.

I also think that there is an issue with the queen bee picking people she can control and people who have low self esteems want to be accepted and will say nothing just to be accepted etc.

It really is all about them and their issues!

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