I already know this is going to be a long drawn out post, but please make a cuppa and work this through with me, I NEED to leave him, but don't know how.

[IWroteOffLightningMcQueen]

I feel so trapped by him, and even more so now than ever before.

Bit of history: We met when I was 17, he was 30, we got married very quickly, have 3 children together (7yo, 2yo, and a 9 month old) 9 years after we married, and I have realised that I am nothing but some sort of freaky robot, hanging off his every word, scared to mention anything that I know he won't like, in fact scared is too harsh, he doesn't scare me, I have just given up trying to get my point of view across, it's never listened to anyway.

We have lived in a bubble of us and the kids since day one. Neither of us have family close by, neither of us had any friends, sure we knew enough people to literally say hello to, but no friends to mention, and now looking back I realise that everytime it seemed I found someone to be my friend (how fucking sad does that sound?) he would put them down so much behind their backs to me, that I eventually agreed with everything he said and just let it all fizzle out.

Except this time. I have held on to this friend for dear life, we've actually only been close for the last 12 months or so, but we are very close, see each other every day when he's at work, our kids play together after school at least once a week, we had an arangment that Friday nights were to be "our" Friday nights. (Not to the exclusion of my husband, he was more than welcome to join us, and had been invited to every time, everytime he'd have an excuse as to why he couldn't/wouldn't, or he'd have an excuse as to why my friend and I couldn't do Friday nights full stop.)

Although my friend and I see a lot of each other (and it's not as freakish as it sound's) my husband and my friend saw very little of each other (probably once a month, sometimes a bit more, sometimes a bit less) so it wasn't as if I was pushing someone he seemed to dislike under his nose all the time. And she actually helped us/me out, she looked after the kids twice while we went out for dinner (we have been out as a couple - i.e. without the kids - maybe 6 or 7 times since DS1 was born) and if DS2 and/or 3 were asleep/poorly/something else she'd pick our eldest up from school, and vise versa for hers.

My friend's husband has invited my husband out to go and have a couple of pints down the local, or at their house while my friend was here, always without fail the invite was declined.

In May of this year, my husband and I had a major falling out (I had made arangments for the kids and I to go on the council housing list close to my mums) We ended up working through a load of crap, or so I thought, I told him I wasn't going to be told who I could and who I couldn't see, that I was going to learn to drive, and if he didn't like the freedom that would give me then it was tough shit, and we decided together to sell our house, rent a bigger house (can't afford to buy a bigger one, or we could but in shitty areas) basically change our whole life style, eating, exercise, time we spend together, apart and with the kids. I knew it would more than likely mean moving out of our town and away from my friend, but I thought I owed my husband and our kids to try and do this. One of my other points was that once we'd moved I would get a part time job, to get me out of the house, give me some of my own money, use it as a way to meet other people, he agreed for the first time in 8 years. In fact he more than agreed with the lot of it, he held his hands up, said he hadn't realised how he'd been, we both said we think it all came about partly because of our age gap, he practically brought me up for the latter of my teenage years. He swore on our children's lives that he would change and that if I gave him the chance to prove it, I'd not be dissapointed.

He has also always seemed to have trust issues with me, but I have never ever done one single thing to make him think I'd ever go with someone else. He had a bit of a shitty childhood, and he blamed his insecurities on that and the fact that I was gorgeous and sexy and bound to wake up one day and think WTF was I doing staying with him. (To put the record straight, when we met, I was reasonably pretty, fresh faced, size 8, big boobs, no cellulite in sight, now I am a reasonably haggered, 26 year old, stretch marks from my boobs to my knees - front and back, size 14 if I'm lucky, 3 kids under my belt - hardly the catch of the day hey?!)

Everything went fine for the next couple of months, sure there were the very odd cock ups, I expected that, and I thought I was more aware of his controlling issues and wouldn't let myself fall for it all again.

Around mid August, we sold our house, for more than the asking price, it was great! We started looking at lovely big houses we could move to that we'd dreamed of doing so for so long, it all seemed to be working out.

Until, and I didn't even realise it as it was happening, I'd been at my friend's house for a few drinks on one of the, (what turned out to being every 3 or 4 weekly), Friday night's, her husband came home with a couple of his mates, we all had a drink together, all very innocently, nothing whatsoever in it, in fact, I wouldn't know either of guy's if they walked in my house right now, so so much for me falling over myself to run off with anything that moves.

But, as I said, it hadn't even registered with me that DH had gone straight back to how he was.

So we were still looking for a house, we found a gorgeous barn conversion, it wasn't exactly what we were looking for, but it was big enough to fit us all in more than comfortably, it was only down the road, it was well within the price range we'd been looking at, obviously, I'd still be close to my friend, the kids close to their friends, but best of all, it meant that DS1 could stay at his school. We paid the letting agents fee's and basically the house was ours as long as the references checked out (which we knew they would - no problem). Now I may well be being very sceptical, and I have no evidence of this whatsoever, but all of a sudden, the day we were expecting to have to go in and pay the deposit because the referencing was completed, apparently the landlord had found a private tenent. I assumed the landlord was just a prick and we started looking for somewhere else. I have since found out that the same house, and two others that we were sort of partly interested in around our town are all still available to let, even though my DH says the letting agency had told him they were all gone. Has he made the private tenent thing up so that we have to move away? Away from my friend?

The next thing he did that has left me in no doubt that he has not changed a single iota is, he'd offered about 3 or 4 weeks ago, to give my friend's husband a chance, and that we'd have them both here for drinks and a take away one night. Well we finally managed it on Friday night just gone. It was a complete nightmare, from word go the atmosphere was, well not far from chilling, he'd obviously planned the whole thing to go so wrong that it would see the end of my friendship. As it happened, he lucked out, it's seen the end of our marriage basically.

He has sat here all weekend, swearing once again on my kids lives that he would change. And that if I give him one more chance, just 6 months for him to prove it to me, if it doesn't work out, I can take all the equity from the house sale and go down south to my mum/family and get a new life. Why can he not see that that is just one more way in which he is trying to control me? It's a way for him to spend the next 6 months making out like he's changed, I start to soften, start the trust and dependancy back up again, until I am once again well and truely stuck.

The problem is, the buyers of our house are pushing to complete the sale this Friday (not a hope in hell, they only got the results of the survey and the mortgage offer last Friday) the house we are supposed to be moving to isn't available till the 23rd of October at any rate. But what the hell am I supposed to do?

I can't drive, I have no money, we have savings - in his bank account, with only him holding a card, I don't have access to money, it's never seemed like a problem, before, if I needed some he gave it out willingly, but now I see it is just another hold he has over me. I have no where to go with 3 kids. I wouldn't get a council house down south, because I'd have just sold my house and made a fair amount of money on it, there are many more desparate people than me, I couldn't afford to get a job and pay for childcare (I have no qualifications to speak of, I'd be looking at minimum wage) I know exactly what I'd be entitled to in benifits and all the rest of it, I'd be lucky if I could afford a 2 bed flat down there with that money.

I am facing having no real choice but to live with a man who can't do anything but control me, and I guess the kids when they get older and start to have idea's of their own that he disagrees with. I don't think I can do it, I am sure I couldn't do it without it having a really negative effect on the kids. Could anyone live like that?

God, I don't even know why I have made this post, just needed to get it all out I suppose. Sorry if it all a bit mumbled, not had a minute of sleep since Thursday night and nothing to eat since then either come to think of it (the Friday night take away ended up in the bin...)

What do I do?

hmmm...

Well, don't have any more children with him, first of all.

So you are, more or less, his employee. There is an emotional maze with that, not good. You have admitted to already shutting down your feelings; that is a seed for depression.

If you stay with him, you need a plan to find happiness (obviously not centered on him-or any man-behave ), restore your self-esteem. Consider some counselling. You would benefit from just a few sessions to validate your truths.

Perhaps the financial arrangements being in his name only started out that way because you were fairly young when married, and that may have been a reasonable arrangement then. But you are older now, obviously more responsible...

Up the ante.
You want the accounts to be "joint" accounts-with your name on them, as well as his. (You can later open one of your own.) Any lease, or mortgage-you want your name on it.
This change will prove his sincerity. Make it a deal breaker. If he even hesitates, (that is him thinking a way around it) then you know it should be over.

If your name isn't on your housing, then maybe be ready to say "no deal", do not move with him, and go to your mom's. Can your mom help you out?

Also, please know, with out a doubt, that "swearing on the lives of the children" is utter clap trap. It is called "lip service": lots of flowery speech to distract or to attempt to convince the unconvincible or to simply lie. Words are very, very, very, very easy-don't believe him just because it is the polite thing to do.

If he is not violent, ever, then you might try calling him on it.
Just say: "I am tired of your lip service on this". He'll say: "Are you calling me a liar?!" You say: "I don't have to call you a liar, your actions speak your truth." He: "What do you mean by that?!"
You: "I am not as stupid as you think I am, or as stupid as you want me to think I am."

It is his actions that, as you know, show his truth. He has demonstrated this by the endless character asassinations in your social life.

Good for you to be taking the mental notes all along. I bet if you wrote it out-the list of controlling examples through the years-you'd be shocked.

Sounds like classic isolating/ controlling behaviour from your DH.

He knows fine well that if you had good friends and a great support system then you'd stop indulging his moods, so he tries to turn you against them.

I had a relationship like this once, and it is the greatest regret of my life, as I lost good friends that I haven't seen since.

Of course he won't change - your actions have shown him he doesn't have to, ie you keep giving him more chances and he knows you won't actually leave him.

I did leave my ex, best thing I ever did, but I appreciate it's harder when you have kids. First thing is (easy to say, I know) you need to grow a pair and start seeing whoever you like, whenever you like. Build your own life up - this man doesn't have your best interests at heart.

Crikey- just got to the end of this!

Point is- are you sure you want to leave this man and are you looking for practical advice?

If so, first step must be the CAB for advice in finances and benefits.I would assume that if the house was sold, you could take your share of the equity, and use that to rent.

In the meantime you could look for work, child care and learning to drive. I don't mean to sound glib, but you need to spend some time on YOU- raising your self esteem and getting some skills under your belt so you can be indepedent. You were still a child really when you met this man, and must have been totally dependent on him- that's got to change otehrwise you might end up with somone else who is a type of controlling father figure.

You also need to get a grip of your self-esteem- writng yourself off at 26 in terms of your appearance is mad- ok you can't get rid of stretch marks, but you are still so very young! Many women your age are just finishing uni, never mind being at home with 3 young kids. Do you need to up your expectations of yourself?

Good luck whatever you do.

I'm sorry IWroteOffLightningMcQueen:
You've already decided it is over.

With that in mind...
If he is not physically violent, or emotionally abusive with gaslighting techinques or narcissistic manipulations-it soesn't sound like it from your posts (but you can google them and learn/decide)...

then I would make leaving a long term plan that would get you the most out of the split. Persuade him to make the accounts joint is a good start. Save a nest egg for yourself. Even a few pounds a week will add up. Depend on him less and less emotionally.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge, experience with this will be on soon to give you more tangible help.

I think you should plan to buy a house or rent one with your share of the equity, look for a job there, find out about benefits and child care, and make a dash for it when all is sorted. File for divorce somewhere along the line- see a solicitor.

You could get him for unreasonable behaviour and get a quick divorce- BUT you have to have records of his behaviour dating back no further than 6 months- keep a diary.

could you just go to your parents? then go to the council there....do they have that housing bond scheme? you'll be on benefits for a while,but if you can secure the bond on a rented place firsrt,then see a solicitor about proceeds from house sale ,marriage etc...

Oh my goodness, I don't know where to start answering all of you.

Can't go to mum's, she'd fit us in somehow, but she fosters, all the bedrooms are taken, we'd be camped in the living room, really couldn't do it. And besides, if I did that and then got mum to 'kick us out' officially to get a house sooner, I'd have to accept the first one they offered, which knowing my mum's town the way I do, I know exactly where the 'emergency' housing is, and I wouldn't take my kids there. (Call me a snob if you wish, it isn't anything to do with that at all, I am talking bricks through windows in broad daylight, cars smashed up/burnt out/stolen, physical attacks in broad daylight, etc.) Really not somewhere I'd want to be anywhere near. If they offer me somewhere in that estate and I turn it down, it could be months and months before they'd offer me another house, I couldn't stay at my mum's for that long.

My husband isn't quite as bad as some of you have pointed out, and this isn't me making excuses for him, he really isn't 'controlling' in the way you'd think a 'controlling person' is. He doesn't tell me what to wear (or what not to wear), he doesn't insist on clothes being ironed in a certain way, or dinner on the table for when he get's home, or.... I don't know... bloody food tins all stacked neatly and turned the right way, it isn't as severe as that. But obviously what he does do is enough to make me want to run as fast as I can, towing 3 kids and a suitcase!

Also, I don't think I am lacking in self esteem as such, I don't feel dowdy and run down, I was just trying to point out that I am not the "gorgeous young thing" he married, and therefore even if I had have wanted to go looking for someone else, well, they're not exactly dropping at my feet for a go.

I have a very uneasy feeling about all of this, he seems too cool and too calm, telling me I can have all of the money from the house (TBH, if I can get something sorted for the kids without it, I really couldn't care less about it. I know in law I'd be entitled to half, but the way I look at it, he's paid for the mortgage from word go, it's his money. And I'd really rather not feel like I'm indebted to him in anyway.)

TBH, aside from what the hell I am going to do to get us out of this situation, the main thing that is worrying me is that for all of his comments on us having shared custody, I just know he will eventually get that pissed off that he'll go for full custody, and I know how clever he is with his words, he doesn't lie, he twists and turns everything, he is very manipulative, and very clever with it. He could paint me up and down the courts as the most unfit mother in the world for daring to want something more than to be a wife and mother 24 hours a day 7 days a week, 365 days a year. And he'd have a good chance at getting them, I'll not be earning anywhere near the amount of money he does, it'll be him in the steady job, versus me in a supermarket or similar. And if I do end up in some dodgy area, and he's sitting pretty, it's all going to add up isn't it?

God, I'd love to give him another chance, I love him to bits, I don't want to be the one to break our family up, it was only 18 months ago I wanted another baby with him FFS. (FWIW, he is waiting to have the snip)

How can it all fuck up so royally, so quickly?

How stupid am I not to have seen it all of those years ago. It was all there in front of me. Why didn't I bloody see it?

Knew I'd forget some of the points.

Up until about 6 months ago, he had his salery paid into my bank account, we went through a period of serious money troubles, a lot of it got fucked up, and so it ended up having to be paid into his account, that I cannot become a joint account holder on because of my (now) shite credit history.

And I have actually only given him one chance in reality, I became aware of his behaviour about a year ago, I sat tight for a while while I was trying to figure out if it was me being hormonal (I was pregnant), or if it stress from a pretty problematic pregnancy, or if it was just me picking at him, or indeed if it was him. I first broached it in May, which led to huge arguments and then the eventual promise of change. But, we find ourselves right back there now.

With respect, you seem to be ignoring a lot of the advice given- just because he doesn't do XYZ does not mean he is not controlling- he certainly is.

Re. your share of thehouse valsue- itis yours by right- it doesn't matter who paid- you enabled him to go to work with clean clothes, and fed, and l ooked after his kids- the house is half yours.

The way you defend him, and they way you don't seem to even want what is legally yours, does seem to say you have esteem issues.

Did he ruin Your credit history on purpose?

So what do you want? He won't gain full custody just because he earns alot or is clever with words you know.

If he tries to isolate you from your friends then he is controlling. He's controlling who you are friends with.

If you've been the primary caregiver for the children that counts for a lot more than you think. Please get into counseling for yourself so that you can understand the damage he has done to you.

If you are the primary carer for your kids then unless there's something you've left out of your OP then no court in the land would give him full custody.

Just because he is not controling every aspect of your day to day lives doesn't mean he isn't controlling. He chose a much younger partner for a good reason - you were young and impressionable and easily moulded into what he wanted and what he wanted in a relationship. In order to keep control over that situation he had to keep out all other observers and people against whose relationships you could compare your own.

Anyway he won't get custody of your children for the reasons you cite, he won't get it unless he can prove you are an unfit mother, or he is the long term primary carer.

Why don't you tell him you want enough money from the huse to set yourself and the kids up in a house and he can live apart and work on his control issues. If you do love him still and feel he isn't "that bad" you could potentially work it out if he went into therapy or something. At least he is willing to occasionally admit that you have become stuck in an unhealthy pattern. His insecurities are the reason he is the way he is. He could get help for that.

You could present it in that positive light to him, rather than saying you simply want to leave him.

I would also use some of the house money to go back to get some sort of qualification, as well as getting counseling, but first things first -- counseling.

I think he's in trouble somehow, depressed, certainly low self esteem, sounds a slightly more extreme version of my DH. But we were out of the country, 5 hours slight time away, so the isolation thing was even more acute, I couldn't even call my parents.

His was brought on by severe culture shock to his going 'back home' after 20 years, he's currently planning and closing everything there, so soon will be back here in a more sane environment.

I can't give you a magic bullet, but I can certainly identify with you on so, so many points. My DH was defiant at times, on the rare occasions I put my foot down and said enough!. But actually, the defiance was all bluff, and with your DH saying that you can have it all, whatever you want honey, i think there are clear comparisons.

My one and only friendship with another brit out there, was my only and true lifeline, without her, I have no idea what life would have been like. DH was sooo anti our friendship, jealous actually! He'd refuse point blank to go out as a foursome, refuse to meet her DH, despite the guy clearly being a good guy. Make comments and bitchy remarks if we were giggling texting. I only saw her once a fortnight if I was lucky!

In the end, I think they ended up thinking he was more than slightly bonkers... not much I could have done to prevent them forming that opinion.. it was all DH own doing.

As a former depressive, I am staggered that I am not depressed after the last 3years, but I'm not. I may have panic attacks going outside sometimes, but we're hoping St John's Wort will help, if not I'll go back to Drs for something more medicinal.

You don't sound or seem depressed. You do sound stuck in a rut, and are in not too great a position to do much about anything at the moment without taking some kind of big step. but at least you CAN do something about it, it's only a matter of you organising it.

You need to be mobile to get out and about more, you'll need it if you want to go to work etc, so I'd focus on getting the lessons booked and underway. That's a dealbreaker, make this the 1st and top priority thing you want DH cash for.

It'll get you out of the house and will put your freedom back in your hands.

I agree that you ought to make sure that your name is first of all cleared - if he has had some hand in un-doing your credit, then he needs to make sure that it is absolutely cleared immediately.

Get your name put on the housing contracts etc, and see if you can talk to the bank about getting a basic bank account opened in your name. Accept any and every restriction they stipulate initially, it's just to get an account in your name, one where you can prove yourself again.

There is hope, you are isolated by circumstances, not by physical/cultural barriers.

BTW, My DH has said that he's had some sort of epiphany, and now sees and understands what he did wrong and what he needs to do to put things right. His vocabulary, outlook certainly has changed, radically, so i'm hopeful that he will re-adapt to life in a normal environment, and get back to an acceptable way of life. But as we all know, proof is in the pudding.

Call your DH out on this btw, telling him not to apologise, but to just do right the first time around, to talk to you and be open with you. For example, if there was a good reason he thought to cancel that rental, then he needed to discuss it with you and agree.

He's doing this from fear, insecurity and panic, is my gut feeling, but I don't know the character, so couldn't say why... perhaps it makes sense to you?

I'm pretty cast iron sure he doesn't want to lose you any more than you want to lose him. You both need to talk, and be absolutely truthful, rigorously truthful, without fear of recriminations. I had to do this from the uk, on the phone, I'd told him out there till I was blue in the face, but it took a bust up on the phone, and 3 weeks where I didn't call him, for him to realise that I CAN live without him...

I'm determined NOT to let him start controlling me again. You need to get yourself mobile so you can set your own timetable, and go here and there without his permission, cooperation. Do this and it'll be the one step you need to change your own life.

Good luck! REALLY Rooting for you!

Hi I had to reply as I too am living with a controlling partner and realise it is over. So many of the things you have said struck a chord. The money issues, the age gap (8 yrs here), friends being thin on the ground (alhtough in my relationship he has lots and an active social life, I have hardly anyone - very isolated), not bothering to air your opinion, discouraging you from learning to drive, having to ask for money, trust issues you don't deserve, etc.

This is the thing with this behaviour, it is sly and manipulative and slowly wears you down so you doubt yourself so much

He won't get full custody at all - you are the primary carer that is all that will matter, that is what the courts look at, the relationship with the primary carer.

I would ask him for your half of the equity as you may well need it for a deposit to rent somewhere. You will get help with your rent, and although this sounds calculating if I were you I would retrain (while you get help with the costs as a single parent) so you can up your qualifications, boost your esteem and end up with a better job.

I am pleased you have a good friend. Have you confided in her at all? If not now is the time to do it she sounds lovely. You really need to think about what you need and want, and then how to get it. I know how overwhelming a prospect this is as I am going through it myself. Take care.

Thanks for all of your advice.

We had a very long chat last night. He knows I am essentially 'stuck' here with him through no choice of my own. I didn't want to actually point it out to him that I've nowhere to go, because that is just one more hold he has over me, but, I did want him to know that I'm not still here for his sake.

As I said about the 'private tenent' thing, I don't have any evidence really either way, but he was willing to walk into the letting agents this morning with me, and confront the lady face to face, so that I could see for myself. TBH, I probably should have said 'let's go see her then' but, I couldn't face it. I am however going to ring today, not to make it sound like I am checking up on him, but just to enquire as to why it's back on the market, and why they'd not rang us to see if we were still interested when this private tenent pulled out, since they'd taken our money for it!

And no he didn't wreck my credit history on purpose, he isn't like that at all. Just circumstances arose that basically meant we drowned for a little while money wise, t'is all very complicated.

He said a lot of things last night, it could have all been lip service, and I guess I won't know until/if he starts acting on them, but the fact is, short of rendering the kids and I homeless, for at least the short term, I can't go anywhere anyway, so whilst he knows I am far from happy with him, and there are no cuddles and 'I love you's' going on, we do have to at least try to get on, if only for the kids sake. Like last night, we needed to do a food shop, there is no way we could have done that not talking, it wouldn't have got done properly for a start, and the poor kids don't deserve to see us like that.

I am learning to drive, I have had 5 or 6 lessons, passed my theory, practical test should be towards the end of October (my instructor has told me to book it, but with all that's happened I just haven't even had chance to book it, the couple of times I have tried you ring, go through a load of computerised options, and then another computer tells you that all the lines are busy and puts the phone down grrrrrr)

Oh, I can't remember all the points you've all made, but the up shot is, until he proves to me otherwise, we are being friendly enough to be able to get stuff sorted (we have the buyers of our house still trying to get us to move out on Friday, just more added pressure!) but, he knows we're not going to be in any sort of married-like relationship -in every sense- until he has shown me things have changed. And that is shown me, not just told me.

And yes my friend knows all about it all, and she is lovely, despite what went on on Friday night when my husband was unforgivably rude, she was round yesterday, made me eat, took the kids for a couple of hours so I could sort stuff in my head etc. just stood there while I spluttered and sniffed and moaned for about 2 hours!

With a bit of luck we'll get there, I am determined not to let him 'get away with it' as such, and even more determined not to let us slip back into old habits, as far as I'm concerned for the time being we are in a bit of a haze and this is when the absolute bottom lines will be drawn, once we've moved, then that is the fresh start, that is where it will all change inevitably anyway. I just need to make sure that it not only changes in a positive way for the kids, and my husband, but in a sense even more importantly for myself. I'm not a selfish person, I won't put myself before my family, but I think this time I need to, in effect, to make sure that I have a place in our family as me, not mum and not wife, just me.

So basically you are giving him a 2nd chance?

On the one hand that's great- on the other- well, has he not had enough already?

You appear to want to avoid confrontation and your latest post seems to show this- as well as a kind of "can't be bothered" approach to following things up at the time.

I can't see whhy you say you are stuck, as you seem to be saying you will have equity when the house is sold and then you will rent as a couple- what is to stop you having your half of the equity and renting alone- and him paying manintenance for you and the DCs? All of this could be sorted with a solicitor.

Yes in a nutshell I suppose it could be viewed as a second chance, or technically a third, the second chance was back in May. That does not mean he is going to have an endless amount of chances. I am fairly certain there will be things that crop up every now and then, and we'll have to face them as they come about, and that means me being able to detect when he is doing something that 9 times out of 10 he doesn't even know he's doing consciously.

And if by not dragging our problems into a letting agents to verify my husband's trustworthyness comes across as unconfrontational, then I guess I am. And I'm not too sure about the "can't be bothered" point. In fact, I confronted my husband on Friday, the night it happened, I'm not really sure what you're getting at? What can't I be bothered with?

I could use the equity to rent somewhere down south, but what do I do when it's run out? To rent a private property down there in a reasonable area, that would be too small in reality, would cost me around £750pcm. Once the equity had ran out how would I pay for that, and all the other bills, and food, clothes for the kids etc. It would be impossible.

And besides, whilst this alone isn't enough to let him carry on trying to control me for the long term, I do love him, he loves me, apart from this issue/s we get on great together, we've got 3 great kids, and in general, on a day to day basis we're happy. Yes, leaving him was the first thing that came to mind, but that's fueled by anger and hurt, I have calmed down a lot since Friday, and whilst I see that we/I can't live like that for the rest of my life, I think it deserves a bit more than 4 months.

I think the thing that clinches it for me is that I do know that he wants to change, he himself doesn't want to fly off the handle if I am in the same room as another male, he himself would like to be the sort of person who can be a bit more carefree and a lot less pompus about certain things. He has booked himself a doctor's appointment for Wednesday night to ask to be referred to a councilor, he says he is aware at times of what he is doing but he can't stop it, he can't help the way he feels, he want's to know if there is something that maybe he has blanked out, or hasn't dealt with fully from his past that is making him that way.

TBH I think if he will let himself open up to a councilor, or anyone for that matter, he'd feel so much better in himself anyway. So many times I'll be talking to my sister about so and so from when we were school, or the 'do you remember when.....' type conversations, and he'll say to me later when we're alone that he wishes he had that, memories of something, anything, he remembers different stages of his life (e.g. he just about remembers his mum and dad being together, he remembers his mum leaving when he was 5yo, he remembers his dad bringing them up - he is one of five -, he remembers his dad finding his partner, etc. etc.) but he doesn't actually remember it happening, he knows it all happened, he was there when it all happened, but he doesn't remember what room he was in, who said what, who did what, etc.

This house move is going to answer a lot, it's a new house, in a new area, new school for DS1, new friends, new routines, new life basically.

We'll only get the chance at a new life together this once.

he was willing to walk into the letting agents this morning with me, and confront the lady face to face, so that I could see for myself. TBH, I probably should have said 'let's go see her then' but, I couldn't face it.

This was the bit where I meant to you seemed as if you couldn't be bothered- but obviously you had doubts when it happened originally and took his word for it. You didn't have to say who you were- you could have just made a general enquiry.

Re. moving south to rent- well the idea was that you would get a job at some point! You would need childcare for the 2 younger ones, and an after-school type of care for your 7 yr old. You would be entitled to maintenance from him, and benefits.

You might get a grant etc to re-train, or could try to get some sort of work where you train on the job- such as NVQ/GNVQ etc etc.

Child minding might work for you, or working as a TA then you get school hols.

I am not unsympathetic, just think you are not really looking at leaving now as an option- more trying to change things at homee.

Actions speak louder then words. It's easy to say that you love someone, you have to act in a loving way too - and not just in moments of crisis when threatened with the end of the relationship.

Organise another social occasion and see how he behaves. A loving partner would tolerate the odd night he doesn't enjoy, politely and in a friendly way, for the sake of his DW.

I am worried about the magical thinking you are doing about the new house and the new life. You are the same people -- how can a new set of rooms and a different view out the kitchen window really help? If things were that simple, everyone with marital problems could solve them by up and moving...

I hope you will keep in touch with your friend when you move; she will miss you too. When you live your life in a dependent way you can get in the habit of valuing friends for what they can give you (this is another casualty of the type of relationship you have with your H, the ability to relate to other people as equals), and I hope you will keep your friendship going and find ways of becoming close, friend to friend, not as rescuer to rescued, because this would be a sign you are becoming stronger. When you move, you should make a priority of making new friends and insist on this with your H.

You will have half the equity from the sale of the current house, and you really could use that as an investment in your education, so that if things don't go well with your H's counseling and he blows his chances again you will have something to fall back on, and any threats on your part of leaving will actually have some teeth. Spending all the equity on rent and then running out of money is not what any of the posters here have suggested. You need some sort of training so you will be self supporting if you separate. You may find that he tries harder to make the relationship a happier one for you if he knows you have a realistic chance of getting away and being independent. I would also urge you to get counseling for yourself. Well done with the driving, that's a great step in the right direction, but also sad that you have not had that freedom until now.

Right now, despite telling you he's going to find a counselor, your H has no real motivation to change because he has guessed that you're not going to force the issue.

Well I think you are doing great!

When we feel as trapped as that, the immediate feeling is to get out... but it's just the cabin fever speaking.

Main thing is that you have opened an honest dialogue, if anything'll make the difference, that'd be it! Keep up that momentum!

Good luck with the driving btw! that's brilliant!!

.. Still rooting for ya!