Mother in law - I have tried to sort things out and it got worse.... Any suggestions?

[SoonToBeAMum]

Hi All,

This is my first post so forgive me if it's too long, too short or too something else!

I was wondering if anyone else had actually taken their MIL issues one step further by trying to talk them out with her and get her to change some of her behaviour?

Let me give you a bit of background info here: my husband (married 1 and a bit year, although we've been together 7) moved out of his parents into my home about 4 years ago. He still had lots of ties to his parents who live close to us - mainly, they still walked our dog with theirs every week day (meaning they expected us to walk theirs every weekend day - at their given time though!) and his business is based in the (big) familyhouse. I should mention that they live in the grand parents' house, although grand father passed away a little while ago...

I've always found it hard to deal with all these strong ties, especially as I'm rather independent myself and his mother has never been used to anybody questionning her ways or her rulles. It gives his mother many excuses to interfere with our life, whether in words or in actions, but until I got pregnant 6 months ago I just bit the bullet and had a good moan to hubby every now and again (not the most clever thing to do I know, but I had to let it out somehow!) about how this or that was really none of his mother's business. He always stopped me from talking to her as he thought it would make things worth.

Recently we had to live with them for a few weeks as we had some work done in our house. Hubby insisted we stayed there for a little while to keep them happy before moving in with a friend as I didn't think I could last, but surely enough after about 2 weeks it all came out in the open and we moved out of their house (she actually read an email I'd sent about it - not even that bad but it made it clear that I was struggling).

I thought this might have been an opportunity to clarify everybody's place and role and tried to have a conversation about it (it took two weeks to arrange!). In said conversation, I tried to explain to her that I couldn't have someone else making decisions on my behalf and that we needed our own space, especially now that a baby is under way. Hubby's dad was very good about it, and we agreed that we'd all walk our own dogs from now on (a much bigger step than it sounds!) and that we'd be frank to each other about anything that bothered us. She on the other hand got upset, cried and went to the doc the next day where she was diagnosed with depression! Most people including hubby instantly made it clear that it wasn't my fault and had been boiling under for a while anyway.

2 weeks on she is still grim whenever I see her (which I now try to limit). Depending on who is around she might make the odd bitter comment to nobody in particular but clearly addressed to me, which is a rather unproductive way to communicate so I just ignore these. Husband tried to suggest meeting now and then for a walk or a cuppa but she finds excuses not to. He still sees her most days though as his office is there!

Hubby's been generally supportive of me on the whole thing - albeit a little late - and we get on with our lives all right. I just feel a bit guilty I've forced him into this tight corner and I'm also worried about what's going to happen next. I get on well with the rest of his family, it's mainly her overpowering behaviour I couldn't accept. She also drinks a lot and doesn't mind driving after 2 or 3 drinks, so comments such as 'We'll need a car seat so we can drive our GC around' really made me worried. I can't imagine leaving my baby alone with somebody who is likely to be drunker as the evening goes on, be it his grand mother!

I'm nost sure at which stage I should just accept that I've fallen out with my mother in law for good or try other ways to fix this. I don't want to go back to the old ways, so I won't back off what I said to her, I just wished she understood my position and got over it!

Anybody been there and has any advice?

Re.: Babysitting - ime what you want to move towards is this scenario: You have a night out planned. HE volunteers his mother as babysitter, HE sorts it out, HE shows her where the kettle is/makes a 3 course meal in advance whatever, etc., YOU put your make-up on, make small talk, waltz out the door.

If there is a problem HE sorts it out.

If you honestly think she will not 'phone you should emergency services be required, she is not suitable to babysit. BUT given that you are marrying a full-grown off-spring of hers, she may well not be that irresponsible. Are there suspicious infant deaths in the family?

Again, the other "problem" will be persistent crying. Either she will calm your infant or she won't. If she doesn't, what precisely is your worry? That she will be incapable of listening to crying for three hours without shaking infant to death? That she will let baby cry for said three hours? If the first; don't leave her in charge. If the second, your dh tells her how long you are prepared to let you children cry for before you are to be called.

However, rare is the individual who really will let baby cry for several hours without intervention in some form; pacifying/calling you home. Pacifying will either work or it won't. If it doesn't - expect a call unless you are dealing with a somewhat disturbed individual.

I would say, as a rule of thumb, devolve most of all of the gp relationship to the offspring of the gp. Be clear to yourself what your parenting strategies are and communicate them effectively. Be polite. Be considerate in areas where there is ambiguity ie. "guest" versus "parenting in loco parentis".

It's tricky at first, because you will discover your parenting rules as you go. So at first you will feel unsure, your mil may offer advice. You may feel judged and found wanting by that. It may even be advice that you find barking mad. That can give rise to a few clashes. But it will be your baby - you can ignore it. With consideration on both sides, it will all pass as your confidence increases.

Sweetheart - your baby isn't here yet. You should be fretting about pasteurised chocolate mousse. I'm all for planning ahead but are you absolutely sure that this isn't displacement worry about something else?

STBAM,

Re NanaNina's comment below:-

"Anyway please do try to keep on an even keel with your MIL - it sounds like she is an unhappy and unfulfilled woman and needs a friend. Maybe that can't be you, but I'm sure in the long run, you, your H and baby will be happier if realtionships with your MIl are on a better footing than at present. You are happier than her, could you make a move towards some sort of reconciliation?".

I can see where NanaNina is coming from and I do realise that she is not defending MILs at all cost. I don't think though that your MIL needs a friend though, not at all. What I feel Nana fails to cite is the point that communication has to be two way and this MIL of yours will need to make an effort too, the problem here is these difficult people often cannot or will not do this.

These people do not actually accept responsibility for their actions nor play by the normal "rules" governing family behaviours. She has not apologised at all has she, well you can forget her ever apologising for any bitter comments she makes. She will not do so. It seems to me that everyone is tip-toeing around this woman so as not to upset her. This actually makes the problem worse.

If you are solely making all the right noises re a possible reconciliation (and I don't think you will actually have a fab MIL/DIL relationship) it won't work. Your H at the very least needs to be involved; it is his issue too. He cannot leave it all to you. He needs to be talking to them.

I think setting clear and distinct boundaries that are agreed by both you and your H now with regards to them is a far better bet.

Rather than also concentrating solely on the babysitting aspect now, I would look into what you would both do and say if she was to overstep any preagreed mark when visiting; would she try and undermine your authority as a parent in front of your child?. Would she perhaps later on want to decide for you how your child is weaned, where he/she goes to school?. These are but two of many more issues she may well want to have a say in.

Both you and H need to present a united front to these inlaws of yours. It cannot be solely you or him. You both have to be equally committed in presenting such a stance to these people.

BTW I would not be letting your FIL off the hook either as he has probably played the bystander role in all this.

Would not bring the baby over to her house for any babysitting during the evening and particularly overnight. If she visits alone she comes to your house at a mutually agreeable time (not just turns up when she feels like it) and your house is an alcohol free one particularly if she is going to be visiting.

I would also add that such complicated interfamilial relationships often become more so when baby arrives. You and your H need to be prepared.

Soon -I think you may be jumping ahead of yourself here.

First off - once you've given birth you don't know how you'll feel - some parents are happy to delegate a bit of babysitting within a matter of weeks, some months, some a year or two (no joking).

Wait until baby born - mil will be around and you'll see her attitude then. You never know, she may stop the drinking.

Once you and dp are ready for a night out then you'll know if mil is fit for the job.

To be honest - if she's drinking then I wouldb't have her looking after a newbie either at hers or yours.

I generally don't ask any gps to babyst for the folling reasons -

mil - undermining - no idea how to look after a little one (note that her own brother had kids - left a gun around and his 6 year old son managed to shoot his own cousin - not a great place for parenting) - in her own home she along with sil were wathcing my little ds on the bed - they were all on the bed but were so busy taking that he managed to fall on their marble floor - they then proceeded to shout and blame each other - my dh included - I went to call the doctor - we're abroad here - they are all crying and so ds still onthe floor - I had to go rescue him - they then couldn't dial the number properly and at one point managed to yank the phone from the socket this is in their country.

Here - forget it - mil couldn't even dial my dh number - she can't be bothered to learn how to use our very simple phone.

My mum is very elderly and doesn't have the energy to sprint when ds runs off.

So, horses for courses here - wait and see how the land lies - then worry about it. If, of course, she's drinking loads then she will not babysit - that's that really.

this is no help at all...but I have a pretty bad relationship with my MIL..I thought us announcing we are having a baby (after many years together living in sin :-) and producing the first grandchild would help to soften her but it has done nothing at all. baby due in 3 weeks and I don't see it getting any better. i am just accepting she and I will never get on and that is that. good luck to you, you are obviously a better person than me because you are putting in the effort to sort it out, I just can't be doing with that kind of thing!!

To give you hope I had similar problems with my MIL, I could write a book about all the issues there were so many.

We also had to live them with for a while and it was a nightmare, she insisted on doing our washing, she even ripped a pair of my trousers because she tried to tug them out my hand! Then there would be comments to other family members that I was so lazy that I couldn't even do my own washing. She cried when we left as she said she would have sleepless nights knowing that I wasn't feeding dh properly .

When ds was born it got worse she cried because we could never give him the happy life that she could. She begged me to sell the house and move in with them. She accused me of being a neglectful mother because I was pursuing a college course one day per month. There were loads more comments that were really hurtful and made me start doubting my own ability as a mother. All of the comments were never said within earshot of dh. Eventually I broke down and told dh what was going on. He promised me that he wouldn't speak to her, I thought it would make it worse but I'm not sure if he did or not.

Fast forward 5 years down the line and there is a complete turnaround, somehow she seems to now respect that we are a family unit and capable of bringing up ds. There are very few snide comments, she compliments me on my parenting and is actually supportive rather than interfering!

I would never have believed that she had it in her to change. I allow her to have an active role in ds's life and I wonder if that has reassured her that she is still useful iyswim. I think a lot of women of that generation find it very hard to take a step back and realise that the family doesn't revolve around them.

Have name changed but am a regular - I am years down the line with my MIL. Things have become worse year in year out. Initially I tried really hard which didn't work at all, but after counselling (supposedly about something else but ended up being about her) it became apparent she has some sort of narcissitic personality disorder. I was advised to let it all go, not try and change her (I wouldn't) and this helped for a long time. Unfortunately she cottoned onto the fact she wasn't getting under my skin anymore and has become nastier. I have recently spent a number of days with her and she literally only spoke to me to disagree with me (she would interrupt conversations between me and dh to do this).

It has now reached the point when I have worked out that I have no means to deal with her and I think I am just going to go away when she comes to visit. I have no issues with her having a relationship with the kids, or dh, and she doesn't visit that often, I just want no further part in it.

I don't really want to go into everything she has done over the years but I think a big issue is that I have never been able to establish boundaries with her. I am not a very controlling person and I am pretty relaxed about kids routines etc, I am happy for the dc's to be looked after by a variety of people and do not leave lists of rules. However, I think because of this I expect people to be reasonable towards me and to understand how far they should go. She constantly oversteps the mark (comments about my clothes, my size- I'm a 14, my job, the way I parent, my relative unimportance compared to my husband etc etc) and I have been unable to establish those necessary boundaries because she just doesn't act by normal social rules. If I said 'oh today it's Wednesday' she would reply with a really nasty 'IT IS THURSDAY' - just for the sheer hell of it. IYSWIM.

DH has always been open to how she is, and frequently has huge rows with her (which I hate btw) but he doesn't quite get the constant nastiness directed at me.

I never thought it would come to this and in many ways I am sad as I get on well enough with the rest of the family (very well with some of them). So my advice to avoid the situation I am in is to establish really firm boundaries. We managed to present ourselves as a couple fairly well so she hasn't ever managed to divide us, but we have not managed to establish a strong boundary for me.

oh and my MIL started in the way yours has, but has got worse over the years. Don't think it's strong ties either. I am part of a close family, but we don't control each other. It's not about ties and relationships it's about control and competition. And of course attention.

Just coming back to say pretty much what 2 other posters have said:

If she really IS an alcoholic I, personally, would not be considering babysitting viable.

Now, here's a thing - if she really IS an alcoholic, that is a specific problem. It hints at FAMILY dysfunction, quite separate from other issues (though perhaps related).

I wouldn´t let her babysit.
I´d rather pay a registered sitter than have someone who drinks at all too much.

Oops!

Mmm... Quite frankly, I don't think I'm qualified to deal with an alcoholism / depression problem. All I see is she does drink almost everyday and most other family members seem to think it's normal, and that currently she sees drinking after 3 glasses of wine as absolutely fine. I can't be certain that she would do it if she was in charge of my child, but neither can I be sure that she wouldn't.

All I'm after is a compromise that won't hurt husband too much, won't deprive my child(ren) from their grand parents completely and won't ask me to bite my tongue too often as I'm not a very patient person and it is likely to end in tears - again!

So currently I like the approach that consists of remaining polite when I do see her but not getting her any more involved than necessary in our lives - which is more easily said than done: it's easy to drop things in an attempt to make conversation that might lead to her offering more advice / help, and before I know it I'm straight back to square one!

Thanks for all your comments!

I think it´s possible to have Grandparents who children don´t miss out by not seeing.

Echoing what others have said....you don't have to deal with the carseat-drinking-babysitting issue, your MIL's son has to. Does he accept this? Because he must.

I'd also be whoooooooah-ing at any mother who considers their child finding a loving partner in any way to be "losing" them.

I also agree entirely with diddl- grandparents, like siblings, are, at the end of the day, just randomly generated DNA. Some relationships are wonderfully fulfilling, some are totally toxic. It's great for everyone if it's the former, it doesn't have to continue if it's the latter.

And you will probably feel so differently about so many things once your baby is born...that's when you become the lioness who eats your MIL for breakfast....the fact that you are already worrying about what will happen afterwards is alarm-bell-ringing in itself....I'd get the electric fence installed now

Hope you manage to enjoy the last few weeks of your pg...

Do you know anything about your MILs relationship with her own MIL and mother? Does she get on with her daughter? I think if her other female relationships were not great you should discuss with DH how you feel you should be treated so she doesnt catch you off guard. My cousin's MIL was able to enter her delivery room 30 mins post traumatic forceps delivery. Presumably MWs thought she was my cousin's actual mother. Needless to say it was a deeply resented intrusion. I didn't have to face my PILs and DH's grandad until day 2 - first day home. It was way too early for me and made me resent them even more. Fortunately MIL stays sober (drunkeness is FILs forte) but childcare is all her way or no way.

Attilathemeekat - yes I do accept of course that communication is a 2 way process. I just wondered if soontobeamum could maybe "reach out" first as she seems to be a generous spirited person, to break the impasse between mil and dil. Obviously if it doesn't work, then ther problem remains.

Bucharest - can I assume that you are not yet a mother of adult children and a mil and grandparent. Re my comments about "losing" a son - well "losing" is too strong a word. It's more a fleeting feeling/memories of when my sons were small and "belonged" to me and feeling momentarily sad. Of course I am happy that they are in happy marriages/partnerships and would not want it any other way. I also absolutely accept that wives/partners have to be No. 1 but this doesn't stop me sometimes remembering back to the time I was No. 1. Like most things in life, to really understand someone's feelings I think you have to have experienced it for yourself and I am sure this is the case here.

The thing is that the love and protectiveness that you feel towards your small children does not go away over time, even when they have partners and children of their own. You worry about different things obviously but the intensity of the feeling does not really dilute. I wish it did really as I would make for a much more stress free life!

I know that my feelings are quite normal as I have many friends who are mothers of adult children, mils and g/parents and we are able to discuss these kind of feelings. It isn't that you want your adult children small again (far from it) but it's just looking back and wondering where the years went and sometimes having a vague feeling of sadness. I can't explain it any other way. The thing is that like any other feeling it is good to know others in my position feel the same and being able to talk openly about it means I am able to handle it. I do honestly think this feeling of "loss" is at the heart of many dil and mil problems.

Incidentally mothers of daughters are not immune to this feeling. I have a close friend who has a daughter who is dominated by her partner and he rations the time my friend is able to spend with her daughter and she certainly feels she has "lost" her daughter.

I sometimes dream that I physically lose one of my sons (always the same one) when he is about 3 or 4 and don't ever find him. Now that is my sub-conscious at work over which I have no control!

SO Bucharest.........whooooooooooooah all you like, but my feelings like anyone else's are real. You may one day have similar feelings. If you do I hope like me you can acknowledge them as "normal" and enjoy a happy relationship with your adult kids and their wives/partners and grandchildren.

Soontobeamum - hope you can enjoy the rest of your pregnancy without toomuch worry about your mil.

Me again soontobeamum - just noticed that you would be interest in what I thought about the intertwined position between your H and his parents. Not sure to be honest other than to state the obvious that he sounds very "intertwined" with them and maybe that is part of the problem. This may be making it more difficult for his mother to "let go" of him which is not really emotionally healthy for either of them. Mothers of adult children HAVE to accept that they come in 2nd/3rd place - wives and partners and their children come 1st - every time. This is as much a part of normal development as expecting a child to walk at sometime around the age of 1 year!

Maybe your H could consider how much this "intertwinedness" is contributing to the present problems. No doubt your MIl will react adversely to any notion of him starting to break away but I think this probably has to be done, for all your sakes.

Incidentally I agree with others that the difficulties will probably increase once the baby arrives.............sorry but there you go. I do have a theory about what happens to grandparents with the arrival of g/children based on my own experience but won't go into it here, as I think you should be concentrating on the wonderfulness of becoming a mother rather than on your MIL becoming a grandmother!

Soontobemum - sorry, this dropped off my "I'm on" list so I never noticed your question.

Things improved for me after a 3 month long stand off. I refused to back down. I won't go into everything my MIL did but a short summary is that she said terrible things about my family, about my parents being divorced (me coming from a 'broken home' (Grr)), about my home town, my job, my house, my intentions towards her son, how we spent our money....etc etc etc. I absolutely HAD ENOUGH of it. The breaking point was my wedding where a very good friend of mine overheard her being insulting about my family at the wedding.

I was furious. The line had been crossed and the wedding was over so I felt I no longer had reason to keep the peace with her. Along with my DH, I confronted her and it all came out. She denied EVERYTHING and I mean everything. Then it went into tears, wailing, emotional blackmail....other members of her family getting their tuppence in. I blanked it all and DH stood by me and believe me, it took a lot for him to do that. Before this, my DH would have backed down at the first sign of tears and done whatever it was that she preferred, instead of what he preferred.

After 3 months of much toing and froing, she called and 'apologised'. Well, she never admitted any of the things we were calling her on, but she did apologise for 'making me feel uncomfortable'. OK, it wasn't what I was looking for to be honest but I had to realise that it was as much as I would get and I had the choice of accepting it or keeping the stand off.

I accepted the apology and had a good chat with her. I explained that in future I would not be accepting any of her insults whatsoever and instead of waiting and holding it in, in future I will be mentioning it straight away. I also said that if I ever offended her, that she was to talk about it to me and then at least we could try and sort it out. Lots of discussion went on after that about how we really wanted to make an effort and get on with each other.

Now, a year later, things are 'cool'. I still worry that it is going to blow up again and I think she does to. But the difference is the boundary. I don't mind opinions but I will not accept insults from anyone, regardless of whether she is my husbands mother or not. She is careful of what she says and I am too, it is not tiptoeing, it is respect.

I think she sees where I am coming from and that I am not a threat to her and vice versa TBH. I encourage my DH to call to say hello etc (because he can be lazy with things like that), the little things that matter and make her smile. I make little gifts for her when we go to visit and it is sincere.

Sometimes she says little things that let me know where she is coming from. For example, she had been on holiday and on the plane had seen that recent film about the labrador dog (with Jennifer Anniston). Well, she said she had cried on the plane because part of the film was about a family with little children and that reminded her about when my DH and his sis were little, and it was a nice memory and a part of her life that is no longer because her children have grown up and flown the nest.

Part of me understands where it all comes from but it is just terrible that sometimes it manifests itself in nastiness. I know the problem wasn't me, because I previously had two ex's whose mothers I got on really well with and they were mummies boys just like my DH! I really tried with my current MIL at first but I got tired of it never being good enough.

I think it is worth it to make the effort to get on and I would not have said that a year ago. You have to lay your boundaries and also accept that for MIL, it is hard too. She should be welcome in your family life as long as she is willing to be polite and respect you but you have to do the same for her and most of all, try to be reasonable and let some things fly over your head. For the sake of your DH, it is worth it but he does have a part to play. He must support you.

We have a big test coming up. We are all going on holiday together (eeekk!) and I am really hoping that it can be really good and a pathway to us having a better relationship. Fingers crossed

Holy - what an interesting post. You sound like you handled it all soooo well and your MIl sounds like she is a very unfulfilled woman. The bit about her telling you about the film and her remembering back to when her kids were small really does tie in with what I was trying to say in my last post I think about us mothers and mils just feeling a touch of sadness about when our kids were small. I think that is the nearest your mil is going to get to try to explain her behaviour and it maybe of course that she doesn't fully understand it herself.

Nananina, it was your post that reminded me of that story my MIL told me. The things is, when you hear things like that, you can try to understand how someone is feeling and sympathise. But if someone is criticising you and/or judging you it just gets ugly. MIL often talks now about how she misses times gone by and I really listen to her because if/when we have kids, there is every chance we will feel the same at her age.

Another thing is that she used to be extremely against DH and I having children. At that point no one had even mentioned kids except for her and she kept making pointed comments out of the blue like "my son is not ready for children". I think maybe back then she saw it as another break in the family set up that she so missed, maybe she thought a child would put more distance between her and DH? I'm just guessing.

Anyway, nowadays, it is very different. She makes little comments about being at the shops and wishing she was a granny so that she could buy little baby things. She does it in a hint-hint kind of way and it makes DH and I smile.

There was no real point to me telling that story except to highlight to soontobemum the change in the relationship between us and to show that things can improve even in the worst situations as long as both parties can make a sincere effort.

Sorry - thread hi-jack alert.

Nananina and HolyGuacamole - I find your posts sooo interesting. Esp. yours Nn - you're further along the line than me. I'm starting to think about stuff you're living. I already find your insight helpful. I hope I do read your thoughts on the things that happen in the transition to mil/gp when/if you post them ... .