dp doesn't love me

[hobbgoblin]

firstly excuse typing as am bf (as usual!)

there is a lot of history to this and ive posted and recapped several times over the last couple of years as things have evolved. advice i have been given was not wasted and i see that i was being used for much of our relationship and treated dreadfully. i am certainly no longer blind to that.

i posted most recently about how well dp and i have been getting along since he finally completed his divorce and that has continued and we've had our dd and he is a doting father and supportive partner. blah blah. i said i felt that we were in a weird friendship orientated relationship and that along with the turbulence gone was the spark. the advice was to relax. i have. however, last night dp announced that he sees no future as he does not love me.

can't really argue with that but he said he felt it was the perfect relationship, that he wanted desperately for it to work but that his heart wasn't in it anymore and he felt he had to tell me.

we've since had a confused convo. about ending it, carrying on seeing each other, still going on holiday in a fortnight, staying friends. i don't know which way i am facing now.

i feel that this soarkless relationship is somewhat inevitable given what we've been through and that we need to try and rekindle that now that we have a more solid friendship as a basis. he says he has tried sooo hard and i think maybe he has tried too hard. we've had no downtime since the divorce, we have a 6 week old baby and 5 other children between us. i think he is expecting too much and is quitting too soon but maybe i am deluded. if he no longer loves me he no longer loves me and maybe that's that.

please help.

Hi this is a transcript of a leaflet the Relate therapist gave my DH (who had an affair) - it might give some insight.

In Latin there are two words describing love. They distinguish the two profoundly different ways of experiencing love. Eros refers to passionate love; Agape describes the stable and committed relationship. When we look for thedifferent kinds of love in one relationship with one person it leads us into a dilemma as the two cannot be experienced at the same time.

Eros: Real love is all-consuming, desperate yearning for the beloved, who is perceived as different, mysterious and elusive. The depth of love is measured by the intensity of obsession with the loved one. There is little time or attention for other interests or pursuits, because so much energy is focused on recalling past encounters or imagining future ones. Often, great obstacles must be overcome, and thus there is an element of suffering in true love. Another indication of the depth of love is the willingness to endure pain and hardship for the sake of the relationship. Associated with real love are feelingd of excitement, rapture, drama, anxiety, tension, mystery and yearning.

Agape: Real love is a partnership to which two caring people are deeply committed. These people share many basic values, interests and goals and tolerate good-naturedly their individual differences. The depth of love is measured by the mutual trust and respect they feel toward each other. Their relationship allows each to be more fullyexpressive, creative and productive in the world. There is much joy in shared experiences both past and present as well as those anticipated. Each views the other as his/her dearest and most cherished friend. Another measure of the depth of the love is the willingness to look honestly at oneself in order to promote the growth of the relationship and the deepening of intimacy. Associated with real love are feelings of serenity, security, devotion, understanding, companionship, mutual support and comfort.

Actually, it's done me good to read that again ....

Good luck.

re. him having someone else...I doubt it. It was reasonably obvious when this happened during our very 'on''off' phase. He kept the public me and him very low key (i.e. friends and locals in the village seeing us together kept to a minimum), had mobile on silent and about his person the whole time, email not viewable and laptop under lock and key practically. None of this going on now plus we are in contact most of the day and he has had no nights out without me for months.

I think it really does come down to either him not ever having had true feelings for me or that he has confused the dampening of that initial love rush as being out of love. The relate link makes sense of that.

I think its probably that I was the rebound woman and nothing more, and although we have grown a relationship where there is a lot of shared history and where he has been appreciative of a lot of my love and support, we've had a great sex life for much of it and we've become very close friends, what we have is not something he is prepared to settle for as 'it' for the forseeable future. He probably just isn't that into me as the saying quoted by SGB goes.

I'm fucked if I know what to do now. It is a big shock because of how much better we've been recently.

I do feel for you Hobb - but can't either of you accept just bumbling along as you are just now, since you have a pretty good level of relationship anyway, even if it's not what you want, and not what he thinks he wants in the future? If he has said he sees no future for you both, then when does his "present" stop? This week, next week, next month, next year, next decade? Or is he just biding his time until his next bout of Eros comes along? (or yours for that matter!)

What he absolutely CAN'T do is keep you in limbo by saying he can't bear the thought of you being with anyone else either - that isn't love, that is possessiveness, a very different thing. If he can't have a loving relationship with you then he HAS to accept that you are free to seek one elsewhere, same as he probably will do.

So - what do YOU really want to do (realistically given the circs) - do you want to stop seeing him? Have him stay away more than he is at the mo but still see him a fair bit so he has time with DD? Or keep it as it is, but with your nascent feelings firmly in check?

He isn't going to make the tough decisions here - it has to be up to you by the sound of it.

(And, fwiw, I don't think he is likely to change his feelings, sorry)

Thunb, that questionb about when does his 'present' stop. That's exactly what I was asking when all this started the other night. You can't say the relationship is going nowhere, that it isn't for you and then kind of go "oh well then, glad I got that off my chest" and then carry on and yet this is effectively what he is attempting. He hasn't revoked what was said or claimed not to have meant it so I know that much but his subsequent actions and vision of our ongoing relationship do not match up.

He asked to come up tonight - he didn't as he worked too late - and we had our night in last night together (he stayed, we didn't have sex incidentally) but we have had sex since he said all this and we are just carrying on with this stuff just hanging over us. He seems good at ignoring what's been said. I am brimming with stress and confusion and a need for things to be cleared up. We've decided to do the holiday, for better or worse, there was even talk of an invite skiing in January. This is frankly madness.

If he wants to let go then he should. I would but I don't want to. If I had ANY idea what his true feelings and motivations are then I might find it easy to call time because I do have a bottom line somewhere. However, I don't know if that has been crossed because I don't understand any of this right now.

Okay, so he is a twat and if this were 2 years ago then I could walk away knowing how much of an idiot he can be but it isn't that simple or easy two years down the line with a whole load of unhelpful hindsight, a heap of emotions and a baby too.

But you're right, he isn't going to make the decisions.

My friend thinks he is having his cake and eating it but I think it is more complex than that now. If I walked away I doubt he'd stop me but I'm not so sure he'd stop himself calling me up and attempting to be 'friends' again soon after. This isn't about him keeping a little fuck buddy anymore while keeping his eye out for the next thing that comes along. He has gone all weird and homely and doesn't go out. He's more interested in keeping bloody ducks than women.

I'd love to send you a video snapshot of my disaster zone life. It's hard to explain all the nuances of what is happening here.

No, I know.
If it suits you to have him around still, then can you use the situation to your advantage without getting further sucked in by your emotions?
Clearly he isn't going to be able to say one way or another - and in some ways it is better that he isn't offering you false hope, only to let you down again.

One thing I do know - don't be fooled by the old "actions speak louder than words" idea. I had a friend who was going out with my lodger (also a friend) for 4 years. He always said he was very fond of her and happy to be with her because she was fun etc. but he didn't love her and he wouldn't have married her. She chose to think that his actions said he loved her despite what he actually said; until 4 years had passed, when she metaphorically nailed him to the wall and asked him outright - he said no, he didn't love her but was v. fond etc. and that was it - relationship over.

I don't think your man DOES want to let go at this moment - you both get on, he gets sex sometimes, he gets to see his baby girl, he has company when he wants it (he probably gets sex more than my DH, poor man!) and there is no other prospect on the horizon - why give up what he has at the moment? All he has done is tell you that it isn't going to last forever - but 20 years down the line you could still be in the same position!

Question is - can you live with that? If yes, then carry on. If not, then it does sound like you will have to be the one to call "time".

Have a big unMNly (((hug))) cos it's a horrible place to be in until you can make yourself comfortable with whatever you choose.

That's a very helpful post, thanks.

I don't like not being loved back so no I can't carry on. I'd like to know if he ever really loved me then I'd know if it was something lost that could be re-found or whether the whole thing is pretty damned pointless.

When I decided to try and save the baby after termination treatment I felt so resolute, so determined to save her and to cope without him and also so defiant, that I could have walked away from him with a knee in the goolies for good measure. Since then I've allowed him back in and allowed myself to become close again and I wish I hadn't because DD is safely here and life is regular and hum drum again. I love this baby fiercely but he has become part of the set up whereas he was an obstacle to her existence before and that made it so much easier to feel well rid of him at the time.

Anyway, I'll try and figure out whether there was ever and real love there somehow when we talk and if not I give up.

Depression is back. Just like that.

Hobb, this must be utterly miserable, but it won't last for ever. The thing is, the more you worry and wonder and struggle to make him love you, the more pain you cause yourself. He simply doesn't love you in that full on romantic way and that isn't something a person can be forced or coaxed or convinced into doing. Trying to find out whether he ever did love you in that way is only going to hurt you more - he will either say that he did and you will get upset because he won't do it again (maybe he did: this sort of intense romanticism is simply shortlived but people who are obsessed with it won't accept that and keep chasing it. IF they are monogamists too then they hurt an awful lot of people on the way, as the romantic monogamist brutally dumps each existing partner for the new The One till it wears off). Or you will not believe him and end up having a pointless row (it's not something that can be proved one way or the other). Or he will try to tell you kindly that he wanted to 'make a go of it' because of your wonderful qualities but it 'just wasn;t there' and that will hurt as well however kindly he puts it.
I think you need to accept that this couple-realtionship is well and truly over, and start to set firm boundaries with him as a co-parent (he turns up when h's supposed to etc and takes proper care of his DD) rather than a partner (you do not owe him monogamy and it isn't any of his business who you date).

hobb, listen to sgb

please do not let this man (he is just one man, remeber...) define your world

you define it, you did it before, now do it again

rewrite it, how you want it to be, but without him as a romantic partner

stop sleeping with him, immediately

you and dd (can't remeber if you have other dc) are the important ones now, sideline him as just the father of your child, no more

SGB what a really great post.

I have been thinking about you today.

I had someone once who was my whole world. He let me walk away and now wants to be friends. Ain't happening and never will. Some people just can't be together in any way. I was wanting the fairy tale with him and then it dawned on me that I have the fairy tale with my husband who loves me more than anything and has stood by me and looked after me for years.

Don't settle for anything less.

Fantastic posts by SGB and AF.

I was thinking the same TBH and I remember a lot of your story hobb, I just didn't know how to type it in such a diplomatic way as these ladies have (solid and AF).

This man is no good for you and why? Well because if it was 'meant to be', it wouldn't be such a struggle. Loving someone is not a trial, it is actually an enjoyable experience - or should be. I can understand that in the very beginning of a lot of new relationships, there might be a struggle to admit ones feelings and expose oneself emotionally.

However, I just think maybe this man has had too many chances with you over a long period of time. This is way down the line and he still is giving your problems. It is not fair on you at all.

I think that analysing his feelings is futile. How about analysing your own feelings and finding a way that you can move on in your life?

You may not be ready for that yet but I hope that you soon will be because until that moment of realisation (which can only come from within you), this man can come and go and treat you how he pleases, keeping you on a string, dangling wanting more.

I think you are worth more than that.

hear hear

hobb, I am so sorry that you are feeling depressed again over this. Perhaps the time has come to stop focusing on the man and put all your time and effort into the DC, with him just an incidental co-parent on the side. SGB has put it very well and, hard though it is to hear and to do at this point, I think you need to take on board what she has said and work towards achieving emotional freedom from this man, because he isn't going to give it to you, you are going to have to take it.

Bless you, lovey, it's a horrible thing to be depressed and having a new baby and having to deal with life-changing emotional upheaval, but you can do it!

Hobb

How are you?