I am LIVID!

[sunfleurs]

Ex and I been apart for a while now. He was monumentally unfaithful to me, emotionally and occasionally physically abusive, led us to total financial ruin and is an alcoholic and thats not even the half of it. Posted about him a fair few times before and got loads of great advice.

I have panic attacks (unsurprisingly!) and today he was nagging me about something utterly irrelevant during one of my panic attacks, stuff that had been left here and I didn't know where it was.

I told him I was feeling pretty exhausted from panic attacks and could he leave me alone, bearing in mind I had told him where to find item he required but didn't go and find it for him. He went off into a huge rant about how he had always been sympathetic to my panic attacks but I was selfish because he is an alcoholic and that is why he has behaved the way he has, yet NO allowances have been made for him and his problem. He now tells me he cannot afford his accommodation and is going to be living in a tent on a campsite.

It just never ends, we are split up but now I feel like utter crap because he is going to be living in a bloody tent.

Once again I feel beyond crap and so guilty about breaking up with him. He says he is different now and I am ruining everyones lives by making him live apart from us. I am an emotional shipwreck. AAAAARGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.........

Sunfleurs, I also have an abusive, alcoholic ex. There are three things that helped me an awful lot.

1. I worked hard at making it clear within myself which things were my responsibility to fix and which things were my ex's responsibility. Keeping a roof over my and our DCs heads, making sure DCs had love and support, looking after my own physical and emotional health - those were my responsibilities and were very important. Keeping a roof over my ex's head and looking after my ex's physical and emotional health - from the moment my ex became my ex, those things were not my responsibility.

2. I tried to make decisions based on what's best for me and DCs. If those decisions also matched my ex's best interests then that's a happy coincidence. If they didn't then, well, that's a shame but that's the way it is.

3. I drastically cut down my communication with my ex. The only two matters that had to be discussed were DCs and money. Even then, any and all discussions were purely factual and business-like and done via text or email where possible. I found it best to just ignore all the passive-aggressive guilt trips, accusations, promises to change etc. It was all bullshit.

Of all of those it was the last that had the most beneficial effect on my own emotional health. It allowed me to take back control over what I choose to do. When I started not responding to the phone calls etc then my ex did turn up the volume for a while but, eventually, gave up and found a new victim DP to leach off of whine to.

You are allowed to refuse to engage with an abusive person. You are allowed to put the phone down on him when he gets nasty, and you are allowed to not let him in your home. You can't stop him making dumb, self-centred and crappy choices but those are his choices to own. You can choose to not let his stupidity affect your happiness.

Is this the type of person you want your children to have as a role model: totally irresponsible and manipulative?

Panic attacks are a medical matter - maybe speak to your solicitor and find out if you can insist that all correspondence is conducted through him/her as this is having a negative effect on your health.

Maybe change your telephone number or have some kind of call screening (if the numbers shows on your phone).

Maybe even a restraining order if he comes round when he is not due to see your children.

I really feel for you. It is very difficult dealing with alcoholics, their 'illness' tends to make then manipulative cunning liars.

My father was an alcoholic and my mother got rid of him and I did blame her because I was young, didn't understand and wasn't told either. But, even at the time, I could see some of the games my father was playing (parents separated when I was 7). As an adult, I think his behaviour was atrocious.

However, my mother had her problems too so I had no vent for my hurt and anger. I believe it is a good thing that your son can vent at you, it means he trusts you. I'd be more worried if he wasn't angry. Of course he blames you, because he wants to blame someone. His world is very simple at the moment, something bad has happened it must be someone's fault.

It is also possible that he feels, deep down, that it is his fault so he's looking to deflect that elsewhere. But I do understand how difficult it is to take when you feel fragile and hurt yourself.

Try to think about what you want for your son in the longer term and keep that in mind. If your ex is manipulative with you, do you want that for your son? Do you want him to get hurt the way you have done? Then recognise you are well rid and truly let go of this man on every level. Also recognise that he needs to hit rock bottom before he will be able to take responsibility for himself so to stop rescuing him is actually a loving act on your part.

Don't forget about Al-Anon, my mum found it incredibly helpful, though didn't think that maybe her children could have done with some support too (but that's a whole other story).

He's probably thinking 'shit - I'm about to be made homeless because of my actions. What can I do? Oh yeah - I'll try to guilt trip sunfleurs into 'trying again' so I'll have a roof over my head by making out this is all her fault'

a truly excellent and insightful post there from Snorbs

DH and I got married when he was 20 and I was 22. He's an awesome partner, in every sense, and father to our DD. Absolute tosh that you married him "too young", so that gives him a free pass to act like a prick.

He is trying to guilt you in to taking him back, DONT

I echo everyone else on this thread.

Snorbs talks a lot of sense.

Fleur this guy is a knobhead. So what if he sleeps in a tent? It's his problem, not yours.

Nananina Every single thing in your post is true. Especially the bit about my childhood. My parents were super critical and had terribly unreasonable expectations of their children. It took me a long time to see exh for what he really was because I was used to his kind of behaviours from my parents. As to what you say about the advice not "reaching" me, think that is true, I only really feel outrage for how he has treated me when I post on MN and get outside opinions, most of the time I just accept that this is how it is. I will not have it for my children though. I won't have them grow up finding a drunk man on the sofa every morning with the tv blaring out. I warned and warned and warned him what I would do (end it) and now I have done it I still feel guilty about it.

I pray he will meet someone else, someone who is perhaps stronger than me and won't put up with his nonsense. He doesn't try to force me into trying again just tries to make out I am as much to blame as him for the split and so should give him another chance. I feel so hard done to for that because I didn't do anything, I was never unfaithful, I never left my kids for days at a time. He tells me he was unfaithful because we stopped having sex after dc (we didn't at all but it did tail off), also I was older than him and more ready for marriage so I should have expected this, when he got us into debt I apparently didn't care, still happy to go on holidays and out for meals etc, I didn't know the extent of it or I would never have agreed to those things, when I tried to ask him to let me be in charge of paying bills, he told me I was cutting his balls off and not letting him be a man and was going to leave. I went away for a weekend and he pawned all our electrical goods, he says he paid for them so he can do what he wants with them. I find myself getting very confused as he shows no remorse whatsoever and clearly believes he has every right to have done it.

Sorry I am rambling on an on but I find it so hard to build a clear picture of what went wrong and where I went wrong. Even if I am partly to blame it doesn't really matter does it? I have to do what is right for the dc and keeping him out of our living and practical arrangements is the right thing because it is damaging for them.

Snorbs He has daily contact with dc and I don't see how I can stop that, dc would be devastated, ds especially lives to see his dad. We don't have any formal access arrangements.

secretskillsrelationships "Try to think about what you want for your son in the longer term and keep that in mind." I am doing that now with regard to my son, trying to harden my heart a bit against all the blame from him and not let it bother me because I know in the long term what I am doing is the best thing for dc whether ds feels like that at the moment or not.

Thank you all for answering me, it is a real comfort and when I feel confused about it all I can come back and read what say. Even if I can't feel it myself deep down at least I can feel vindicated by other peoples opinions. Sorry it was so long.

Sunfleurs, just 2 things re your last post:

1. You didn't do anything wrong

1. Do you think it might be worth seeing a solicitor and working out a formal access arrangement? It might help your panic attacks (I suffer from these too, all the best people do!) if you had some sort of formal agreement in place, so you could get on with your life on the days when your ex isn't going to be seeing the dcs? It would also mean that you could limit your contact to conversations about specific arrangements to see the dcs, and not speak to him about any other matters .... would this help, do you think?

I think it would help to do that but it is something I have to do in the longer term. He would go mental if I tried to restrict his access and things would get so much worse. I know that sounds weak but I believe he will lose interest in his own time, he has with everything else in his life, not in the dc I hope but when he meets someone else. He will, he has a good job believe it or not in spite of his desire to dwell in a tent and can appear funny and attractive. He works long hours and I go out when he comes round so he doesn't actually get to see me that much. It is partly my fault because I buy into it, constantly wanting to show him I am not the person he thinks I am, I can't stand how he has re-written our relationship to make me responsible.

I am pathetic, just read over my posts and I feel so weak. Who cares what he thinks, who cares if he wants to make me responsible? He is an alcoholic, unfaithful, emotionally abusive man.

Whatever my part in all this the end result has to be end of the relationship, there is no way back, even if I am the one that benefits the most from being out of this relationship. I just feel I am putting myself before my dc. I am going for counselling, have been referred by my GP, had first session to see what I need etc and will be assigned a counseller when one becomes available so I am being proactive, whatever I sound like on here.

fleurs, I hear what you are saying (and have no personal experience of this kind of situation, so I could be speaking out of turn) but I think what MummyDragon suggests with access is a great idea becauses it gives you a bit more power in a way that is structured so he cannot fight you individually.

It must be terribly intrusive on your life now to have him still involved everyday and hard for you both to move on when this is case the case.

If there are legal restrictions on him it would limit contact in lots of ways and feelng more in control could help the panic attacks?

I know it's scary to go against him and you do know him and the situation best, but please consider it as an option, and as soon as possible. Am sure it would be hard to begin with but hopefully ultimately better for you all?

P.S. YOU didn't do ANYTHING wrong - this isn't about sex or paying bills or how old he was. It's about HIM being an unfaithful alcoholic fuckwit x

P.P.S. I told you the tent was laughable...

X-posts - you are NOT pathetic or weak. You are incredibly strong to have got this far... You are right about him tho. And you are right that this has to be the end.

It does NOT sound like a healthy situation at all for your dc to be in - seeing their dear mummy abused by a drunken out-of-control man. Would you like your dd to end up in that situation? Or your ds??

What you've done is best for you AND your DC. Read blinks post. Keep going. Be strong. Am sure the only way is up...

blinks somehow I missed your post before, just read right through. Thank you for saying that. I think that I have to start trusting my own instincts and listening to them rather than fighting against them. Whatever else, I KNOW it is wrong for ex to have drunk round the kids the way he did and I gave him so many chances to change it. It is the one non negotiable thing in all this. So no matter how I feel about myself the one thing I do know is no matter how unhappy everyone in our family is about it finishing it and getting a drunk out of the house and away from my kids was the only right thing to do. Out of everything that is the one thing I need to cling onto and your post has said that more clearly than anything I could have come up with myself.

My dc might go through a stage of hating me for it but when they are older and educated and have children of their own they will know I did the right thing and picked them and their welfare. Thank you so, so much for saying that to me about yourown childhood. The thought of my children not seeing me or not trusting me with their own kids because I didn't do the right thing for them is so much more destroying than feeling scared everyone will hate me because ex h is choosing to live in f*cking tent! The utter tit!

Please sunfleurs think about a formal access situation. As I read it he will kick off whatever you decide so you need to decide what is best for you and your dcs and that's that.
Is it confusing to have ex coming round everyday but not living there for dcs do you think? Don't really know the situation and sorry if you take offence at that, but it sounds all his way atm so I say go to solicitor and get it formalised. For all you mental health too.

Thanks Mamas12. My ds has ASD and my dd is 2 so we have not had the talk about Mummy and Daddy not being together it would be far too difficult and upsetting for ds to understand so there is no confusion about Daddy coming round every day. We have taken advice about this and were told that the best way to help ds adapt was just to allow it slide into his conciousness rather than have the "Big Talk". So you see it would be difficult and not really is ds's best interests to put too many restrictions on the time spent with his dad. It is up to me to find a way to deal with exh and not allow him to get to me.

Btw I am over the tent thing now, he has told me that he won't continue to put money into some random landlords pocket. I think I have to try to just get cold about everything. He certainly cold enough with me enough over the years. It is just he does seem different now and I have a nagging feeling I am being selfish by not giving him another chance. I just don't bloody want to though!!!!

Sunfleurs - the nagging feelings that you are having - and those "voices"telling you that you were somehow to blame belong in the "Then and There" (your childhood)NOT in the "Here and Now." I think you need tostart devoting your emotional energy to thinking about your own childhood and how it has left you with feeling you are to blame for things. This is what happens when children are unjustly criticised as children, as you were. Is there any chance you could have some counselling to help unravel the emotional abuse you suffered as a child (because that's what it was)and gain some understanding of how it is intruding in your life in the present and making you think you are to blame for things, when this is not the case.

I always seem to be suggesting counselling on MN and it's not that I think it's a panacea - it's just that I believe a good counsellor/therapist realy can help us make sense of our past lives.

SO try to stop thinking about your abusive ex and start thinking more about you and how you have been affected by your past. Unravelling this and learning to accept that your past intrudes on the present (as it does for all of us) will give you the bestchance of finding greater peace of mind in the future, which you surely deserve

Thanks Nananina, have been referred to counselling, just waiting for an appointment. I had twelve sessions before and it was great, really helped me to deal with my Mum as I had always had a really difficult relationship with her until recently. I didn't want my parents to treat my kids the way I had been treated so I kept them away and got counselling and it transformed my relationship with them, on face value anyway. I am not scared to stand up to them now and I don't really care what they say behind my back, as long as they are respectful and kind to me and my dc's faces. So I know that counselling can be fab. Your posts have been really helpful for me.

When I went for my appraisal (before counselling proper), I told the counsellor that my exh had behaved how he did and that I had a ds with autism and that I couldn't get a job because ds needs so much support and he said really quietly and kindly so "you have had things pretty tough for the last year or two haven't you without much support", I just burst into tears because I hadn't even thought of that, that life was pretty tough but I was managing to deal with it, it was fab to hear a stranger say it, just as it is to get the help on here. MN is an absolute lifeline for me, I would never even have known that I should leave him it wasn't for MN, I would have just stayed in it trying to make it better.

You're doing great. He is a KNOB. Just say this to yourself at least once every day. It is NOT your fault. He has chosen to not seek help for his alcoholism and no matter what you do you couldn't 'fix' him.

Hi Sunfleurs - glad my posts have been helpful for you and that MN is a lifeline for you. Glad also that you are having more counselling. It is a l - o -n -g (and sometimes painful) journey trying to deal with the aftermath of emotional abuse in childhood, but a journey well worth taking. I think when children are heavily criticised and unjustly blamed it leaves them either with a tendency not to accept blame for anything (often a male reaction) or to feel that they are to blame for things that they clearly are not (as in your case) and I think this is more often the response of women. I think this is because as women we tend to internalise things, rather more than men.

Unfortunately the dmamage done in childhood takes so long to repair and those "messages" about not being good enough and blameworthy just keep on playing like tapes in the head.This is because they were implanted at at a crucial time in a childs' developmental process and so they get "hard wired" into the brain and remain..........for some people, for ever. SO on one level it is helpful to know that others try to convince you that you are not to blame, but real peace will come when YOU believe it for yourself, from within.

Don't lose sight of the fact though that you are a remarkable woman as you have not (as so many in your position do) repeated the mistakes your parents made, with your own children. Just how brilliant is that? You have broken the cycle of emotional deprivation and your children will go on to be nurturing parents themselves because of you.

Good luck with the counselling and do so hope all turns out well for you.