Desperate - advice needed pls.

[talie]

To cut a long story short, dh left me with 2 small children just before Xmas. We rowed continuously for months but I clung on and asked him to come back to me and the dds. Threatened to move away and that seemed to hit home he wouldn't see dd's very often so decided he would make a go of it. Things were going great and he then hit me with another bombshell that he had been keeping in touch with an ex for the last 8 yrs of our marriage!(I had no idea whatsoever!) but says they are only friends! Found a text message saying "he missed her xx" and I went mad! Again said they were only friends! I wanted him back so I said I would trust him on the proviso he made no effort to contact her. A few weeks down the line he decided to move back in and things were great.

Things seem to have dwindled and he seemed to be hiding his phone from me (something he never did previously). So sent his ex a text telling her to have him or leave him alone - which she forwarded straight to him and I got hold of first! Phoned her to have the phone put down on me twice when I asked what was going on and then had a blazing row with him and told him to leave. He told me not to touch his phone and refused to delete her number from it telling me not to rule his life!

I really want to make a go of the marriage but she is eating at my insides and its driving me potty! I suppose its the fact that he has kept a secret from me for 8 years when he knew how I would feel about it, but he chose to carry on anyway! I phoned her partner, who basically said his relationship was rock solid and he wasn't going to tell her who she could and couldn't speak to!

I have since found texts saying that she would always be there for him, that he has to do whats best for him and the dd's, shall she tell me what I want to hear etc. and asking him for his works tel. no. I also noticed that he has deleted her nos from his phone (perhaps to stop me contacting her????) I get the impression that they are going to tell me that they are not speaking to each other but will continue to do it behind my back via his work which I will know nothing about! So I will continue the rest of my marriage with her in the background! I do not want a third party in my marriage - friend or not because I find their texts unacceptable! She seems to have some sort of hold over him - coming across as this wonderful caring friend when his wife is a miserable bitch at home! How do I get rid of her?

Do you think I am being paranoid about nothing and just blowing everything out of proportion here? Or am I justified in thinking there is more to this than they are both letting on?

I have asked him to come back for the last time because my dd's are really suffering and have left him to mull it over for a few days and then make his decision. But, I'm so scared that if he comes back this time that I will not be able to let go of the thought that he will still be hiding his relationship/friendship with her again for the rest of my marriage. How do I begin to try and trust what he says to me and how do I push her out of my mind to make a real go of the marriage?

Any advice please?

Good point

Just to let you all know - just received a text from him saying he would like to come for tea tomorrow as it's dd's birthday (had invited him to come home to us and said would make a nice meal tomorrow if he came home, but told him I would not accept the lies and deceit about her and didn't want a 3rd party in my life!)

I replied asking him if he was coming back and he replied NO SORRY! What a man! Cant even tell me that it's all over.

So can anyone now tell me that he isn't putting his friendship with her over his marriage and kids??????????????????????????????????????

I'm devastated - wot am I going to say to my eldest dd - she's 3 !?! She's taking this really badly as it is, not sleeping at nights etc. asking all the time when he's coming home etc. etc. What the F* do I tell her?????????????

How can a ??man?? walk out on his kids? The marriage isn't bad enough for him to just walk away - obviously had something to do with me upsetting the apple cart at her end!!

Help me, pleassssssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeee.

What about Relate? Surely worth a go for your dds' sake, if he will go with you.

I know it's really hard and not what you want to hear, but i think you need to stay as strong as you can for your dd's and begin to move on. Although it doesn't help now, In time your dd's will be able to see him for what he is too.

Message withdrawn

Hi talie,
I have been in a similar situation, and that feeling of "I must check" is a really horrible one. I hated myself for trying to sneak a look at his e-mails to his friend - who he described as "like a mother to him" but when I found the final proof that they had been having an affair I knew that I was justified. It may be a betrayal of trust to snoop on your partner, but it's nothing compared with being unfaithful.

Once your feeling of trust is eroded is it really difficult to get it back. Having said that, a year later we are slowly putting our relationship back together. He is still in contact with the other woman, but I have come to accept that the relationship is no longer a threat.

I had some excellent councelling that made a huge difference to my sanity, and I would really recommend it. I'm not sure where things will go for me, but I do feel positive about the future.

What matters is the relationship between you and your dh. He may feel that his relationship with the ex is important, and that she provides support that he needs. That what my dh said, and to be honest, in some ways that felt more of a betrayal than the actual affair. But, at the time it was true for him as we weren't really communicating at all at that point in our lives. Now we are rebuilding our friendship what matters to me is how we feel together (not always great, but getting better).

You have to make your own decision, for your own happiness, and for your family to be happy.

Good luck!

(If this is a bit out of synch sorry - lots of posts have gone up since I started typing!

Nooka, I could have written your last post almost word for word ( except my dh relationship was with a work colleague and thankfully she is now totally out of our lives)We are putting things back together slowly like you. I agree entirely that the sexual part of the affair hurt bigtime but the most damaging part was him giving away his emotional needs to someone when it should have been to me. the betrayal, lies deceipt are hard to move on from- trust is so preciously given and so easily lost!
however I sought counselling (infact we both did in the end) I still see someone just for me. The emotions eat you up inside and become destructive to any possible healing in a marriage, good counselling can show you the way through that. I'd advise it too, even if it's just for yourself and how you are feeling.

Thanks for all the comments - i know its good to hear all points of view, but the negative ones do make me feel it is my fault!! and I am sure it is not!

Nooka & Maturer - How do you begin to rebuild your relationship when I really hate him at the minute? Are you rebuilding to the point that he is coming back to you or is it purely friendship now? The sad thing is, I still feel the marriage is worth fighting for, especially so my dd's have a full time dad in their lives! If I move away back to my family, they will be lucky to see him once a month!! I really don't want that for them, but he obviously doesn't care!

He flatly refuses to go to counselling! I have made arrangements for me to go and had asked him to help support me through this difficult time but he has obviously chosen not to!

Do I begin divorce proceedings or is this too hasty? Although he is running up debts galore since he left at Xmas and I will have to pay the price wont I, when the house is sold and the monies are shared?! As he has just changed jobs as well, he will be on double wages for a while which I will have no access to and I'm sure he will string it out until all those monies have disappeared as well !! - so should I speak to a Solicitor and get my share?

Hi Talie,
I tended to swing between fairly violent hatred and optimistic love in an uncontrollable sort of way. Do the councelling for yourself, just to get your head together, and have someone who will listen to you without any strings. If he is feeling scared by your anger or alternately very guilty you being calmer will help both of you, as whatever happens you will probably want him around, even if it just for your children.

The other reason to go for the councelling is that, however hard you try, your unhappiness is probably affecting your relationship with your children. Also the councellor may have some ideas about how you can talk to your dds so that they can cope better - mine certainly did. I had 12 sessions (paid through work) and although my dh said he wouldn't go at the time, he has now asked for contact details of my councellor - I don't think that seperate councelling is that unusual tbh, I've talked to other people who said it worked well for them.

I refused to let my dh leave (always thought the first thing I would do was throw him out, but there you go you just can't tell how you are going to feel when it happens), and he coudn't really afford to go it alone. Also I'm afraid that I used blackmail, as he said he'd take the kids with him.

We have had some pretty sticky times, and I think that he has been quite depressed at times. It has helped me that I work full time, and that I have had a lot of support from work colleagues, friends and (very recently) family.

It is worth getting some legal advice, just so that you know where you stand. If his debts are in his name then he is liable (I was very worried about this as my dh ran up horrendous debts). As far as the house goes that depends on what happens to the children. If you end up going through the courts then they will make a decision based on their welfare, not an equal divide, so if you are a SAHM you should be OK.

I hope that we are building our relationship back into a marriage, but at the moment we are concentrating on being good friends. We've been together since we were teenagers (coming up 15 years now)and that's a lot to throw away. Also we still both (despite everything) love each other. Of course, that may not be enough, but I have stopped wondering if I would be better of leaving, and hoping for someone better next time!

Anyway. Sorry rambled a bit there - main message, get some support, and get some councelling. You need to get on an even keel before you can make the right decision, whatever that may be.

As I said before good luck. You will get through it!

and hi maturer too - it's nice to know that someone else has made a similar decision - I think that some of my friends think I'm nuts! (although they are very supportive)

Hi, thanks again for your comments.

He's just been round for dd's birthday, we seemed to get on well but lots of idle chit chat about him and his work. I cooked him tea after dd's went to bed (which was quite traumatic - eldest dd had a big tantrum and played up for ages because he was here - now I look forward to another restless night and more bad dreams from her! I just hate the upset it causes in her young life. All people say to me is how important it is for the contact etc. and she will get used to it -but I feel she is sometimes suffering more than I am and that REALLY hurts.)

He never mentioned the relationship, so again I had to! Asked what was going to happen - he said he wasn't coming back, but couldn't say that he never would! I told him I wasn't going to wait around for him as I have no life or support where I am at present, so I would move away closer to family. He was not happy with this decision as like I've said before he will have to travel to visit the dd's and will not manage that very often! Got the impression he thought I would be happy to sit tight forever until he makes his final decision, but I know that I just can't do that now - I've sat here since Xmas and I'm no closer to achieving anything that makes me or the dd's happier.

I am in a dilemma though, so advice again would be greatly received. We have two hols booked and paid for, 4 days away next month and then 3 weeks away the month after. He says we can still all go (and added 'don't expect miracles!'), but I just don't know whether to or not? One part of me says go and see if it makes a difference to the marriage by spending some much needed time together (even with dd's in tow!) and away from outside influences!! But the other part of me says don't be stupid, make him know I mean business, forget the holiday, move away and hopefully make him realise what he is missing!

Really don't know if I can fake being happy about the present situation, going as 'just friends' and continuing this silly idle chit chat. Asked him about sleeping arrangements and he said he would take a sleeping bag!!

Any thoughts please?

Talie, I really feel for you, its a horrid decision to have to make. I totally agree with you, I would go mad if I found out that dh had been secretly in touch with an ex for the last 8 years and continued to maintain the relationshp despite knowing how much it hurt me.
TBH reading your last post it looks as though he is 'pulling the strings' ATM, he calls when he likes, sees your dds when he likes, refuses to break off the relationship with the ex, refuses to discuss your future together, refuses to give you any indication of if or when he might dain to return home. When I read that he said 'I'll go on holiday but dont expect miracles' or 'I'll take a sleeping bag' !???WTF??! I really would have wanted to slap him - he seems to think that he is the injured party when in fact he is the one that has caused the damage. Even if you asked him not to bring his mobile or to contact her at all while you are away I think he would still turn it into making you look neurotic.

I'm sorry, my post has given you no answers at all, I just wanted you to know I was thinking of you. I hope it all works itself out best for you and your dds.

Thank you for that - you have just spelled out to me what I know deep down is happening to me, and the floodgates have yet again opened.

I'm so depressed today, I just want to curl up and die - but I don't get chance to grieve because I have to be strong for the dd's. I hate him for forcing me to have the life I now have to lead - being a single mum (who struggles with being a mum even when married!) with all the responsibilities that that throws at you, having to now go and live on benefits, struggle to find a place to live in an area I feel safe enough to live with the dd's etc. etc. I just can't bear the thought of it! (I admire all those women out there who are in that same situation and coping with that life - I am going to find it such a struggle!) While he will be leading this fantastic new single life, he's already bought a new car and loads of gadgets, new better paid job that takes him travelling lots in uk and abroad, more social life - the list is endless!

I so F*ing hate him for this! He's wasted so many years of my life, wasted even more saying he wanted to try again and didn't do any trying and now I'm dumped with two kids - the marriage had problems before they came along but he so childishly thought they would make it better!! and now I have to pay the price! Don't get me wrong I love my dd's and would never be without them, but if I had the choice, I would have chosen for him to leave when they weren't involved in his SELFISH life.

so sorry for your situation, but you cannot hang around waiting for him. - what if you are his backup plan - if he does want this ex, but she is still with her husband, if all else fails and he cant have her, he thinks he can come back to you? not saying this IS how it is, but do you think it could be his attitude? if so, would you want that?
i think it is pretty off of him if he does want you to just 'be there' if and when he decides to come back - he can go but you are not allowed to make a new life for yourself?
noone can tell you what to do, you have to follow your heart, but if this were my situation, i would move to be near my family and get on with my life - let him see you too are moving on, and tell him that actually, if he's left he's left and you wont be a comfy pair of slippers he can slip back into if his new ones give him blisters (hope you see what i mean)
you sound in so much pain right now, its no wonder you cant think clearly.
Also, IMO he forfitted his right to a say in where you live and how you get on with your life when he walked out on his family and his responsibilities
but this is only my opinion, dont mean any offence.

wanted to add, the only way you are going to regain some strength and happiness is if you take back the control, make the decisions and take steps to move on with your life.

You are all so right - I have made the first move - someone coming to put house on market next week, even though it really hurts me to leave (as i just want a happy family life)- I know I must be strong and do it!

Any advice about what I should do re. the two holidays we have booked? I really don't know whether to go or not with him?

Help please.

only you can decide what is right for you. all others can tell you is what we (think we) would do in your situation. i hope i havent come across as 'do this do that'.

since you asked re holidays, i personally wouldnt. this is not to say that i think you shouldnt, like i said, only you know whats best for you!
the reason i wouldnt is that
a) i might hope that the hol would bring us back together, which would not be realistic.
b) i would just be miserable in a different location
c)pretending to be happy families on holiday would not work
d) what if you ended up sleeping together (hol + alcohol??) and he STILL didnt want you to get back together, i would feel used
e) i would NOT want to come across as desperate or pathetic - i would want my pride! (NOT saying you are either of those at all, but i personally would feel scared of coming across as either of those things - my pride has made me come a'cropper more than once though!)

personally, i would go on my own with dd, or get a friend or family member to go with me, or i would cancel the hols and get my money back and use that to get something nice for myself or my new house.

but, this is just my opinion, and its not worth a lot cos its YOUR life here, not mine. you may think that the hol would give you time away from everything else to talk - but what if you were on the hol and he was texting her while next to you on the beach?

and by the way, you need to tell him to pay maintenance if he isnt already. and if he wont, go to the csa. now is not the time to be emotional. - i hope he is paying an appropriate amount already, but if not, its his duty.

if you want to offload i have a willing ear and a superabsorbant shoulder, so you can CAT me if you wish, but no prob if not.

hope you feel a little better able to cope very soon.

Thanks for that twopenceworth - I just know everything you say is right and that is what my head says, but my heart still wants my little family unit back together! Will I ever face reality and get over him?

My dd has again been in tears today when I told her dh wasn't coming! and then I burst into tears because I take on board her upset as well as my own and then I feel even more guilty because she cries because I'm crying and hugs and kisses me and tells me everything will be alright and not to be sad, which makes me cry even more!

Yet more tears this evening - she has seen all his bags that I have packed ready for him to collect (tomorrow?) and asked if dh was coming home - I told her no he wasn't and she replied that she wanted to go and live with him!! I know she is too young to understand what she is saying but the floodgates just opened up again and I wondered whether this would be what I would get for the rest of my life with dd - would she throw that at me every time I have an argument with her?

I F*ing HATE the man!

of course thats what your heart wants (i want to reach down this internet connection and give you a huge hug right now!). your dd is hurting - theres a lot of pain in your situation, and shes lashing out. she will do that and it will hurt, but you will still be there for her and she will come to realise that you are not going to 'abandon' her too. you cant turn off your feelings like a light switch and 'get over him', but, with time, you will deal with it. sad fact of life that we have no choice in such matters. but it is so easy for someone outside the pain of the situation to be logical!

• i would have made him pack his own bags actually sad to say you are probably going to have to have a talk with your daughter along the lines of daddy loves you very much but daddy and mummy cant live together and more, we both love you very much - that sort of thing is the 'correct' way, is it not? however, i would be sorely tempted to say your dads an arse and he has walked out - but i know you cant, am not suggesting you should but i bet it feels very unfair that you have to be kind about him when she is lashing out and blaming you. it is human to want to say actually, its all his fault, but as you know, you want to spare her that pain. and finally. GOOD you SHOULD be angry with him! you can channel that into positive things in terms of getting your life back on track - initially maybe to show him you are getting along fine! (kind of a 2-fingers to you mate!) but that will turn into doing fine for yourself and proud of it!

You will get thru this, you know. you might not see that now, but if you come back to this thread in six months time, you will be amazed at how different you feel
xxxxxxx

Hi Talie,
Just to give you a slightly alternative view, I still would really really encourage you to go and have some councelling. Anger is an incredibly destructive emotion, and you are really going to need a safe way to discharge it. I'm not saying it's not justified, but you need to take decisions because you know they are right, especially where your children are involved. I have seen friends become incredibly bitter and sometimes it is very hard to hold onto the nice person you know you are (I know I have looked back at some of the things I did and said when I was very hurt and angry, and regretted them deeply). Having said that I would wholeheartedly agree with mytwopenceworth about taking control of your life, as one of the things about affairs etc is that you feel completly disempowered. Also it's easy to feel that you are completely at fault. That said I do believe that marriage breakdowns are rarely about just one person (and I'm not really talking about external factors). The other thing to bear in mind is that your heart may be right. It is possible that you have misconstrued the relationship that your dh has with this other person, and that he feels he can't be with you and dds because of the rows (not saying that this is true, but it is possible). If he was posting on MN somewhere he might have a completely different perspective of what's going on. That said, it may still be absolutely the right thing to make a fresh start without him.

I do feel for you, you are in a horrible place, and it's probably hard for you to believe that anything will ever be OK again. Again I think that's a good reason to get some councelling, to understand where you want to be, so that you can feel that there is a positive goal for you somewhere. Good luck!

Thanks for all your advice - I know what everyone is saying is true and I need to move on, which I am trying to do.

But still, at the end of the day I feel that this marriage can be saved and is worth saving - the marriage was not bad enough to give up on! I feel that he is having some sort of mid-life crisis and just wants everything his own way - he is VERY selfish at the minute. I do not want to put up with that or feel that I should have to so maybe time apart will be best. What hurts most is the fact that he seems to be able to just switch off his feelings for me and the children and not care how much he is hurting us, and that he is able to just walk away without having a real go at trying to save it. He flatly refuses to go to counselling and wont support me in me going alone to sort out my issues which may help the relationship. He just seems to have given up without a fight! Why? Are his kids not worth fighting for? I'm not that bad a wife either! In fact he gets too much of his own way and I should have put my foot down a lot sooner in the relationship.

If only he would give it one real last go and I felt that he had put all his efforts in to at least trying to save the marriage, I would feel a lot better about calling it a day because it still didn't work out for either of us - yes, okay I'm still going to be devastated but at least I would know that he cared enough (at least about his children) to try one last time. Surely that's not asking too much of him????????

I really feel for you reading this Talie. I am a single parent and have been for 5 years and just want to tell you that you will be OK and it isn't that bad!

I do however understand that you want to do everything you can to save the marriage especially if you think it hasn't been that bad. BUT you can only save it if BOTH of you want to and are committed to that goal. You just can't do it alone and it sounds like your dh just doesn't want to do it.

As men rarely leave something not too bad for no real reason I reckon there is someone else. Otherwise he would feel so bad about causing all that hurt surely?

My dd gets very upset sometimes abuot her father too as he has lost touch completely. I find it hard to know what to say and I can still get upset with her but that makes me feel worse too as she shouldn't be feeling my pain about it too. Oh it's a minefield - bloody men!!!

Good luck Talie. Thinking of you.

Hi Talie, I too am a single parent and really sympathise with what you are going through. Like Listmaker says, if your dh does not want to make the marriage work then it is over, however much you might want to patch things up. At the moment he is calling all the shots and you need to take some control back. You might want to consider visiting your GP and getting some anti-depressants for a few months. I found them really helpful and they got me through a very difficult time. I would urge you to get some legal advice as well.

Hi talie,
You may well be right about the mid-life crisis. Talking to my "rl" friends many of us felt that we had had a mid-life marriage crisis (either just dh's or as a couple)within 1-2 years of child no2. What sort of age is he? I'm sure that my dh's affair was the result of a mid-life crisis (amoungst other things), although that was probably more from rubbish job syndrome than good job syndrome. However we did have some disturbing conversations about how things might of been if we hadn't had children, which made me think he didn't care about us at all. However in fact he is a very devoted dad and actually I think through it all he continued to love us, it's just those feelings were very squished out by his concentrating on how he felt. I'm not saying that's fair or right, but he definately wasn't showing me the person who I fell in love with.

It may be that your dh is chosing to run away rather than face his feelings about the way he is treating you and your family. That doesn't necessarily equate to not caring.

Having said that, I am a relentless optimist!

Why do you feel you need his support to have councelling? Go anyway. If you come out of it obviously happier/more well balanced he may decide that he'd like to go himself. Some people find the idea of councelling very threatening.

At the end of the day, yes, it needs both of you to save your relationship, but what you should be thinking about is how to make sure that you are OK, and that you are making the right decisions.

Hang on in there - you probably feel dreadful (are you sleeping OK - I had major problems at the height of my 'troubles'), but I am sure that it will get better one way or another.