How do I help my dh to change - things are very difficult.

[ErnestTheBavarian]

OK, I've posted a few times in the past about my dh. Basically he is always tired, always grumpy, very bad tempered and grumpy and snappy with the kids. He can be very rude and abrupt and hurtful. He does (usually) recognise when he's calmed down when he's been out of order and apologise, but that doesn't necessarily take away the hurt he caused.

He finds the noise at home extremely difficult to tolerate and this makes him also very grumpy and snappy. We have 4 dc, 13 months, 5, 8 & 9. He has a really personality clash with ds3 aged 5 - but sparks fly there, and to a lesser extent with ds2 aged 8. He finds the noise really actually physically painful. He admitted last night that even if all 4 were being nigh on perfect, he would still find it too difficult, as more than 1 noise source at the same time hurts.

Unfortunately, we have 4 kids, and they are not text book perfect all of the time (undertstament) which leads to him shouting at them to be quiet or talking unkindly "stop jabbering on" etc really frequently. He places unreasonable demands on them to be quiet, and esp ds3 in the car just can't do it. I can tune out the noise of them chatting or even squabbling, but he can't.

He sees his relationship wth ds1 now becoming strained. He doesn't want the kids growing up and looking back thinking he's always a grumpy bastard, but the fact is, he is.

He wants to change, but neither of us are having much luck. I am trying to support him. We have been together a long time (17 years) and he used to be always really funny, witty, clever, we'd be laughing all the time. Seems like a very distant memory

He has agreed to dramatically cut down on alcohol (wasn't an especially heavy drinker, but most nights.) So now he won't have a drink at all during the week. He's trying to get to bed earlier, but he finds going to be difficult, I think he has always natuarlly been noctural - so going up very late & getting up late, but obv. this doesn't fit in with his job, which is long hours and demandiing, though he does enjoy it.

He wants to execise more, and does try to go for a long bike ride or run, but due to hours, difficult.

But what else can we do? I think he needs a hobby that will give him social contact with people, but he wouldn't join a choir, and doesn't do sports other than cycling, so not sure what?

The strain usually lands on me. He is now working such long hours I usually have to put all 4 dc to bed by myself every night, I feel like a single parent. I feel bad for the kids who he's always having a go at. Most of our rows are about him being mean to them. I worry our relationship will stand the strain of parenthood. I worry for my por kids always getting told off, and I want to help my dh who desperately wants to change, as he can see how he is being and is increasingly unhappy about it.

So acion plan is

• v. little booze
• more sleep.
• more exercise
• try taking St Johns wort

Anything else?
How do I help him tolerate the noise?
How do I help him help himself to relax and regain his former easy going fun ways?

Thanks

How about some yoga? Quiet, destressing exercise that may help him to slow down a bit - particularly if he did it first thing on a Saturday morning.

Not sure destressing is an actual word but I'm sure you know what I mean.

How about getting him to spend time with the kids on an individual basis? You could have altenate Saturdays being a day Daddy spends with each kid doing something. Then he could hopefully bond more (particularly with the 5 year old) and the noise would hopefully not be too much.

And agree with the poster who said that both of you need to spend time together as a couple.

Finding clubs and making friends. This quest has been at the root of my dh's blues. He had a mini midlife last year and the lack of friends and self imposed stress level was at the heart of it. Take note though that he is now a much happier man, there is hope although it is frustrating as the partner as you can't help at all.

My dh joined a local sporting club and although injury has stopped him continuing, he met some nice people. The best thing he did was join this as it met his requirements for excitement, meeting people (through training and get-togethers) and being on call. He loves getting bleeped and has helped a lot of people. It's sometimes annoying having your lunch disturbed because some old codge has choked on their cabbage but he finds it all very adult and compelling.

Maybe your dh needs a schedule for weekend mornings to keep himself busy as it is actually unfair to insist on everyone marching to the beat of his drum. Someone mentioned up-thread about stress management and I couldn't agree more. I think your posts show that he is thinking very hard about this so I do hope all turns out well for you and that you clobber him with some grotesque unreasonableness when the menopause strikes.

Hi Ernest Good to see YOU sounding well, but honestly your H sounds like a prize twat!
He doesnt like the noise - WTF is he 10!
He needs to grow up and pull his weight!

I think your dh sounds like a very overworked and tired individual. As hard as it is at the moment how can he notbe grumpy and tired.. The only advice I can give is ask if he can cut down his hours or try to take more holidays. Children are small for a such a short length of time its a shame not to enjoy it

Ernest - sorry things are not brilliant, but at least it is for different reasons than before. Do pop in to F&G to see us all. We are now on thread 10 .

Thanks for your support. Honest though McD, it used to annoy me and used tosay similar to you, but I have learnt slowly that for him it is a real physical issue. When he's especially tired he physically jumps and winces with even smallish noises. it doesn't have to even be that loud, just the multi channel stereo effect of more than one noise source. Suffice to say, the 4 dc don't normally politely wait their turn

Hi to you and Dior, it's nice to see old faces- will pop over.

He was in so late last night didn't have a chance, but tonight I'll try to present some of the suggestions. I think the hobby would be a very important piece of the puzzle. The ambulace thing looks great (tbh, for me too, but I doubt either of us would be able to go through with that due to language).

I think also sensing ds1 resenting his grumpiness & distancing himself from him at the weekend has been the final push he's needed - we have had many words about his 'grumpiness'. He is very intelligent and "doesn't siffer fools gladly" which can make him abrupt and rude. I have often wondered if he has some sort of 'condition' like aspergers - when ds2 was being tested for adhd amongst other things, lots of alarm bells were being rung. He is awful socially - avoids contact if at all possible, eg if we get a baby sitter, even though we always sue the same one and know her quite well, he has horrors of speaking to her and will immediately hide, he couldn't possibly actually pay her. He wouldn't mow the lawn in our last house case he saw a neighbour and had to say hello to the even from across the garden. Has rejected all invitations for dinner/barbeque etc. Not surprisingly, our social life now we'd moved again is - nil. SO I need to set him up with a hobby where he has 'safe' contact with some people. At work he seems fine with dealing with (a wide variety) of other people.

You're up and OUT by 9am on Saturdays?? WHY??

You should be having shagging/chatting time on Saturday and Sunday mornings till at least 10am in an ideal world, but realise that won't happen for a couple of years till your eldest is old enough to keep an eye on the others getting their own breakfast etc.

If he has that much energy on a saturday morning I'd send him out on his bike for a couple of hours by himself to burn it off then come home feeling a bit more relaxed.

BTW someone earlier on said about his hearing - I know someone with an ear condition which makes everylittle noise seem v. loud to him. He talks v. quietly. Does your dh? Maybe he should see a GP about his hearing.

I recognise the thing about the social life. My dh has a similar sounding job to yours and I recognise the thing about not wanting to make small talk with people at the weekends, he just wants to chill as he's been talking all week. He's not as extreme as yours though.

You sound lovely Ernest. Do let us know how you get on.

ErnestTheBavarian - your posts describe me down to the last detail AND I have suffered exactly as your DH and I realy do mean suffer.

However, I have a happy life and a great relationship with DW and DSs now so there is a way forward and like your DH I recognised the problem and set about dealing with it in a range of ways that I will describe below. Do not give up on DH - but he needs to know why he has this problem and with the wonderful love and support you are giving him and his apparent willigness to recoginse he as a problem he and you can get through it. This is a long post but I hope you find the detail useful.

I normally do not like the term Aspergers but it does act as a convenenient shorthand for the range of personality traits you descrbe and I have them just like your DH as does my DS1 much more acutely so am happy to use it here. I wrote about my difficulty with making small talk and social interaction on another thread last week. I am also shy, intelligent, do not suffer fools gladly and people find me abrupt and rude and I do not mean to be. I struggle to undersand how other people react to what I say.

The arrival of DS1 and DS2 made the symptoms much worse and yes I did use to shout at them when they were 4 and 6. The noise and chaos was just impossible to bear at times. It echoed round my head until it hurt and I became very tense to the point I coudl not think straight. Sustained, loud, random noise is used in torture and I can tell you, it really works.

Dealing with the noise issue. I am afraid this does require 4 hours of hard excercise for the DCs every day. I recognise the 'up and out at 9.00 am on Saturday' thing. DW used to get annoyed with me but unless we had timetable we rigidly stuck to and the DSs got plenty of excercise they whole day just descended into crescendo of noise and chaos of children too full of energy. Soft play areas, football clubs, making the kids ramps and jumps for their bikes, parks. Even swimming (although I hate the noise of swimming pools). Anything to get the energy out of them. In holidays we send them to holiday clubs to play all day.

I also like to have a timetable of what we are going to do. DS1 also likes this and cannot stand not knowing what is happening. Having a timetable of activity, rest and meal times would be a big help to DH.

On your DHs work. I strongly suspect his work coleages and his bosses take advantage of DH. Like me, he is probably someone who is very honest, loyal, likes people to stick to the rules, believes everyone should do their share and be fair. The working world is not like that though. It is about taking advantage of people. Also I am something of a perfectionst and slightly obsessive so if work needs doing I work until it is done even if that is 2 in the morning. I worked very long hours in the past and 75 - 80 hour week swere not uncommon. Regularly being woken at night to give orders to ships delivering cargoes. The only way I cured that was to completely change my career. Remove myself from that kind of working environment. I have also had stress counselling in the past.

I now do regular gym excercise which is a great stress buster and means I have a quiet 2 hours to myself. I take earplugs to tune out the music in the gym and also I go at quiet times so I do not need to be bothered by other people.

I recognised I was angry with the DSs quite a lot and found if I removed myself from the situation for a few minutes when I felt that coming on it helped. We also gave DSs their own room and we gave ourselves our own designated room where DSs cannot go. They can be reasonably noisy in their own room but not come in ours unless they are very quiet and with no toys.

I do not think hobbies are the answer if that involves people contact. I took up painting and also got into political and economics blogs on the internet and enjoyed discusisg those topics with other people. I of course enjoy MN too.

Finally on social interaction thing. I wrote about in several of the posts that I made in the thread I referenced above. I had to learn how to interact socilly for the sake of DW who had a high powered job that had lot of social functions. I can do it quite happily but still requires hard work. Where most people put 50% of their effort into a social occasison I am working very very hard at peak capacity becuase it does not come naturally. Lost of practice and love and support form DW means I am much better now and enjoy social occassions. We started out with lots of little dinner and lunch parties with friends where I did the cooking.

Above all, do try to remember the "he used to be always really funny, witty, clever, we'd be laughing all the time" man is still there. Partly he is like that because he has these Aspergers traits. You just need to help him find that nice side agan and deal with the downside. I know I can be an annoying PITA sometimes to DW but I try hard not to be and am sure your DH would too.

All the best.

Wow that's a really insightful post ABD

Yes, tahks a lot abd. Helpful to hear other people's experiences, and to see it's not just him.

I totally get him needing a timetable. And I cannot tell you how much I am trying to be supportive. And how happy I am I feel we've turned a corner inasmuch as he has admitted he knows he's a PITA and he wants to change cos he doesn't want the kids to suffer as they are.

But you know what gets on my tits big time? He wants this 'get up and go', highly planned weekend, but what gets RIGHT ON MY TITS (did I mention that?) is that he wants me to do the organising! Every weekend. Guaranteed. He will ask "what are we doing this weekend?" I'll say how about x, y & z? I don't want to do x or y. I'll say, what do you want to do? Don't know. Silence. But He always always asks me, then gets the hump if I don't have a myriad of exciting outings panned. He very rarely says lets do a, b & c this weekend.

So now I have to add that to my list. At work or during the week he is too busy/stressed to do it, at the weekend, it's too late, he already wants to be doing it. I think I will draw up a default weekend plan that we stick to unless something seasonal like spring fayre etc .

Sorry but I think he should be solving these problems. By all means love and support him, but you can't 'fix' somebody else, it has to come from them.

I'm tired of hearing about people who are stressed and grumpy due to working. I'm assuming that with 4 kids you're working your arse off too but you also have the job of pussyfooting about and coming up with loads of solutions to cure DHs grumpiness?

How is that fair at all? He wanted 4 kids, he has to be able to deal with 4 kids and the noise that they make, or make changes to himself so that he can.

If he has a genuine noise sensitivity issue then the GP can help with that but he's choosing to behave hurtfully toward you and DCs, which I doubt any GP can help with.

At the moment you effectively have 5 kids and he gets to indulge his moods like a toddler. If it was me I'd be angry, not trying to further infantilise him by bending round his moods.

I agree with morriszapp. He is acting like an idiot & unfortunately you are indulging him.

Don't plan anything at the weekend - in fact, tell him you've worked all week & are going to meet a friend for a coffee.

He's not going to bed early BECAUSE he doesn't want to - other things are more important, which means he's selfish. If he is having problems going to sleep, get him to the gp for some sleeping tablets, or make him get up earlier, so he's tired at bedtime,

I don't like getting up early, or making sandwiches or cooking tea every night, but it's my job as a mum to get on with it.

(oo I sound all stern, I just don't like men taking the piss)