I am still so angry with my mother, its pathetic at my age, but the latest quote really took the biscuit!

[AnguaVonUberwald]

I have a tendancy to struggle emotionally sometimes and my mother has never been able to cope. I have recently been find it difficult - struggled with it for weeks and eventually told my mother that I was feeling really bad. Her response was! "Oh well, glad its better than last week, got to go, off to lunch with your sister"!

Nothing new there there. When she was down here for DS's christening, I said that I was struggling to know where to go with this, and I don't want anti-depressants, councelling(sp) can be expensive and my friends locally are more "casual mum friends".

Her response: "you can always email me!"

Now before anyone asks, she lives in this country, works one day a week and spends most of her time playing tennis (I am not saying that there is anything wrong with this. But she does have time to talk to her daughter - who is struggling with her first child, returning to work etc, etc.

I know I can't change her and that there is no point in saying anything about it - as she is so deeply in denial about this, it would all turn out to be my fault.

It just hurts - when your daughter comes to you and says: I am in a lot of pain and struggling to cope - the response shouldn't be "you can always email me!" Or am I being unreasonable to expect some support?

AVU I think you're expecting something your mother can't give you. I think you know that. You cant make people be someone they are not, even if you have an idea of what a mother should/could be. It will only cause you endless pain and disappointment. You dont have to pass an exam to be a mother, some mothers dont even care that much. Some mothers are abusive. We cant all have the perfect mother who's there for us when we need them. I know I dont have that.

I think you need to look elsewhere for support, as your mother can't - or won't - give it to you. What about your sisters? Or your friends?

Yes it does hurt.

The only thing you can control is to change your expectations of her. Otherwise you will constantly get hurt by her lack of interest/support.

It's taken me 40 years to finally realise that I'm not going to get what I want and need from my mother. It still hurts, but the expectation is no longer there and that's quite liberating. I am facing the hardest time of my life at the moment, my ex husband is going on trial for rape (of me as well as an ex), sexually abusing my little girl and emotionally abusing my older children...I am a single mum of 3, on anti depressants and crying out for someone to turn to and who will support me. Her daughter and grandchildren have been seriously abused and she never never asks how I am, won't discuss it, won't let me talk about it...in fact she has told me she doesn't want to know. It's always been this way and I have finally accepted that I am not going to get any support from her and I need to find it elsewhere. As someone else said, you can only change your way of dealing with it as you will never change her. Good luck.

whereismumhiding, you are quite right and I have, mostly, adjusted what I expect from her, its just that with feeling so down at the moment and then the email comment, it seems to have brought it all up again.

Sleepingwiththeenemy - that is unbelievable, all I can say is your are amazing to have accpeted that, I am in awe of what you are going through and coping with. Definatly puts my problems with my mother into perspective.

I just find it amazing that a mother can't or won't be there for her daughter, or son, when they need her. No matter how big or small the problem, if my children need me I will be there. As for my mother, I have had to accept it for the sake of my own sanity...still makes me sad but what can you do?

Whereismumhiding spaeks the truth.

For what is worth, your mother can be a stranger, it is your expectations for her what is hurting you. Or at least that was the problem in my particular case and since I lowered the expectations of what my mother should be like, I don't feel hurt as before, actually, the relationship has improved.

I think that when you feel down it is difficult to find a way out. Try to concentrate on what you can do for yourself (like talking to your GP about how down you are feeling, trying to reinforce friendships, etc) rather on what you can get from other people. It helps.

BTW Having anti depressants for a couple of months it is not as bad as not being able to enjoy this special time with your baby as much as you could because you are not feeling well.

Pamboli - I know what you mean about antidepressants, but we are trying for another baby, so I would like to avoid them if I can.

I think the thing with my mother is that I have lowered my expectations again and again. (lets just say that my expectations are now so low that the visit where she announced, in conversational tone, that she didn't feel related to my DS (her grand child), was a good visit).

Its just that this total rejection of my pain and need still hurts.

But she phoned today - generally, not to see how I am - and I just said I was well, and all was well! What else can I do!

In my case, lowering the expectations for my mother meant expecting from her the same I would expect of an aquaintance I had not seen in years: Nothing, just a civil conversation about the weather when we met.

Surprisingly, now every simple gesture she does is more appreciated. I don't think she has changed, I did, now that I don't expect much I appreciate more the things she does for me.

She wouldn't be able to hold my hand and make me feel better if I am going through a bad patch, she wouldn't be able to give me advice about anything, but someway, it feels good to hear her voice when she rings after me forgetting to ring her for weeks. Someway that tells me that she cares and that, on her very particular way, she is still there for me.

Pampoli, you are right, I have not lowered my expectations enough. I think I almost find it harder at the moment as I have a fantastic MIL (I am very lucky), who is wonderful and so interested in DS, but of course I can't off load this on her. I can just see how a mother can be from her, and it brings it all back.

However, expectation lowering here we come!

As the mother of a DD who suffers from depression, I have to say that while clearly everything is a lot harder for my DD, I do find the whole situation overwhelming at times. I am way out of my depth, and I'm so scared of saying the wrong thing that sometimes I say nothing. And so sometimes I probably do seem like I'm withdrawing a bit, or even disinterested. That's never the case, but that has been how it has come across to DD.

But we've talked about it and I've explained how hard I find coping with her depression, and how awful it is not to be able to just "kiss it better", which is every mother's instinct, and that sometimes I just don't know what the hell to say. It never means I don't love her and worry about her.

You need to talk to your mother - yes, it's a nightmare for you, but it's hard for her as well. You also need to talk to your GP about how you're feeling - counselling is available on the NHS, so it doesn't have to be expensive and ADs can be extremely useful. Don't discount them.

OP, can you tentatively ask for support from your m-i-l and develop your relationship further with her? My mother has been "adopted" like this and both parties have gained such a lot.

Would your m-i-l really feel that you were offloading tmi onto her shoulders or would she WANT to help and support you and your children? I would think about it..

Hassled, I have been to the GP and have been offered counceling but... It might be £50 a session, you HAVE to go weekly or they won't see you and they are all trainees!!!

I am not impressed - I am going to the initial assesment appointment (which is £15 - payment within 5 days or they will cancel it!) and will see, I am trying hard not to prejudge, but am not impressed so far.

I do understand what you mean about being the parent of someone with depression and I truly do understand that its hard, with friends, they can hang up the phone, and not think about it again, whereas, as a parent, you stress and feel like you should have "made it better"

But I have tried to talk to her, and it just doesn't work - I was told by my step father that "they just don't want to know"!

Sachertorte - What you say is very right, but DH is struggling with the idea of me having depression anyway and I think he stuggles with the idea of me offloading it on to his mother, also, as Hassled says, its very hard when you care about someone not to be able to help, and she would find that very stressful, which DH also says, and he has a point!

Or rather, she would help, but she couldn't make it better! Which is the hard thing, I think it often takes someone who has been there to understand that you have helped, but it simply isn't possible to make it better!

Angua... One thing I learned when I was were you are was that if I was going to get better, it was me who had to do the work. People could listen but at the end of the day the only person who can change the things is...you.

When I was depressed there were times when I felt sudenly sooooo very down I couldn't make sense of it, I could appreciate there where plenty of good things in my life but still there were times within the day that I wondered if life was worth living even when my brain was telling me -rightly- that everything was ok. ADs helped, and also understanding that when those moments came, there was no much point in fighting them, I just accepted the feeling and waited for it to pass (and they would in less than 2 hours).

I don't think counseling would have done much for me, as things were fine, it was my hormones causing trouble. ADs kept the things in track until I could "feel" again that life was good.

I understand you want to try for another baby, but perhaps this is not the right moment. Be kind to yourself, don't add more stress to the situation and concentrate in getting yourself in good shape so you can enjoy your child as much as you can.

Pamboli, I'm afraid the baby situation isn't simple, its kind of a now or never situation, and I can't cope with the thought of never have another child!

I know what you mean about working on myself, but I just really need somewhere to vent, and with DH, while I am working out what is going on in my head, I might suggest that its this, or that to do with him, and if it isn't he gets hurt for no reason - I hope that made sense?

(to be clear if the problem was with him, we could of course talk about it, I just don't want to hurt him with speculation). Also its hard for him to understand that it doesn't have a specific cause.

I have been on ADs in the past, and will go on them again if I have to, but am reluctant to do so unless absolutly necessary.

When I was 5 my mom put me in boarding school, I hated it and made myself pass out, my lips and fingertips would go blue and the school would rush me to hospital. As soon as my mom came I was right as rain. I could go home every weekend but my mom preferred to fetch me once a month and forgot to fetch me on Friday, on Saturday I called and asked her to come fetch me she said no that she was too hung over and would see me the weekend after. I remember sitting in the back of the car looking at her (before boarding school age) and thinking that she was the most beautiful amazing person and how much I loved her, the bond was broken. Then life happened I was in boarding school until I was raped by a date and lost my virginity, eventually I concocted a plan to fall pregnant at the age of a ripe 15 years, just to escape the boarding school I was at and having to live with my mother. My baby was 3 months old when the baby's father and I broke up(surprise, surprise). My mother told me I had until 4 o'clock to be out of her house. I don't know how I survived I had just turned 16, I managed to get a flat (how someone entered into a contract with a 16 year old I will never understand, but I was grateful, I had nothing I moved in with a single bed mattress and my baby's carry cot, I bought take aways to keep the polystyrene to eat off of, I hired a nanny to watch my child at night while I waitressed and during the day did my Gr 12 through correspondence. I am now 33 married and have another child (4), my mother lives in a flat on our property and tells whoever will listen that she lives in the servants quarters, and can't believe that her child that she had such a hard time raising treats her this bad, I wish she would look at my life and look at her life and just say SORRY!!!

SOmetimes I wish I could just pop in on some of my old friend's mothers just like I did when I was 12, and they would let me in and talk to me, just like they did when I was 12, and I wouldn't feel the gap of having a disinterested mum quite so much, like I did when I was 12.

That's very very pathetic to see written down about yourself, you know.

Thanks for starting this thread Angua, it's made me feel a little bit better - I hope it's done the same for you :)

My mum has always struggled with emotion, and though she's not nearly as bad as some of the mums on here, it has hurt me a lot. I'm quite an emotional person but she hates it when people show any sort of strong emotion and tends to want you to stop asap. I think it's because she genuinely can't handle it, and realising this has really helped me by lowering my expectations of her and reminding me that it's not really a conscious decision on her part.

I was sexually abused as a child by a friend of hers and I told her about it a couple of years ago. At the time she sort of blew me off, but the whole thing started overwhelming me again last year and I suffered a very bad bout of depression. I tried to talk to her about it again and her response was "You're not going to let it ruin your life are you?" When I explained that I needed to talk about it and get it off my chest she said "You're trying to make me feel guilty" Basically like your mum and stepdad, she just didn't want to know. That hurt a huge amount.

Equally with my depression, she was quite understanding at first (which surprised me) but over time she became more and more closed off and it became clear to me that she'd basically reached her limit and didn't want to help any more. Eventually it was turned around to her feelings again, to the point where she would ring me up and tell me how bad she was feeling! Not an appropriate thing to do to someone who is depressed.

Eventually I had to accept once and for all that she is emotionally stunted and immature and cannot deal with complex situations like the ones I went through. It's hugely disappointing and it still hurts to a certain extent but it was only through giving up on looking for more that I felt any sort of relief. Like others have noticed, since I did that our relationship is actually better.

I got a lot of support from my MIL which helped a huge amount (she has suffered from depression so she understands quite well).

Colditz - me too. Some of my friends mums were lovely.

Hi

I agree with a lot of things that have been said. You can't change the way people are no matter who it is . Your mother will not change . Will she ever ? Who knows. Bt longing for that image you have in your mind on how a mother should be will only cause you pain. From my own experiences I know what you are going through. You have to try and move on otherwise you will destroy your own life. Remember your a good person invest your time on those who want to care. I'm not suggesting you cut your mum out of your life - too painful but you can choose how much time you want to give.

X x

And yes, I agree that you have to let the imaginary mother in yourmind go, and deal with the one you actually have. This was the advice I was given here five years ago, and since taking it, I've only forgotten it once, when I called her to come and sit with the children while I went to A & E to get a morphine shot to help me with a kidney stone I was trying to pass.

Her response was "Colditz, I'm in bed, I've got work in the morning!"

And she didn't come.

And that really hurts, because I can think of three people on my street alone who WOULD have dropped everything and come, and I can think of ten people in this town would would have dropped everything and come if they were able. And my own mother wouldn't come.

But hey ho. That's her. Keep it light and everyone is happy. She doesn't cope well with being needed. She was the same when I was a child.

I must admit Colditz that being fairly spectrummy myself with a dd that i am certain is also asd i wonder if my mum is the same. I have been telling her what i expect from her and why seems to be working.

AV if the counselling your gp is offering could cost 50 pounds/hour you could just as easiy shop around for your oen therapist at that price. I've had therapy a few times - NHS for free, overseas, and lastly, I shopped around and paid myself. The latter, was by far the most successful because it's important to find someone who suits you - has a similar world view. A could of visits and you get a sense of that fit.

I've also had various meds over the years and I try to stay off them. If you could manage it, I think theray might be very helpful - but if you don't feel you click with your therapist don't feel you have to persevere. Call it a day and shop around - there are probably a few private therapists with proper qualifications - I find some through my local library.

Like pp, I had a mother who had too many of her own issues and couldn't deal with my having any problems. Dh is suportive in principal - but he doesn't understand my mood swings - it's alien to him. And I don't want to over-burden him, as I know it gets old. I think it also helped my marriage to have an outside support (dh was very ill during that time - he had enough to deal with).

Crikey - must edit - that should be 'a couple of visits'

It could just be that your mum can't handle it.

My mum's like this, lovely, lovely person,adore her, a great friend... but if I'm miserable, she is NOT the one to rely on.

WHY? because when H and I were fighting I told her about it, her hands started to claw up and she couldn't move them. When a friend told her she needed to let go of us, we are grown women and if we need to leave we will do so. she had to trust OUR judgement. She backed off.

Her hands recovered.

So to this day, if I tell her I'm struggling, she takes to the hills....

You will have to find other resources.