Idealism on XP's part or a legitimate reason for ending a relationship?

[BecauseSheSmiles]

XP believes very strongly that, upon meeting the person he settles down with, there should be lightning bolts, fireworks, birds tweeting overhead ? some kind of animal attraction or destiny. And he didn't feel this ? or rather, he didn't feel it strongly enough (because it seems there are degrees of this ) ? with me when we met back in our teens. And he can't get past that, even though the relationship we created at times seemed great.

His mum told him that, on meeting the man she left his dad for, she just knew he was the one. And XP wants to feel this too. A counsellor told him that, if he feels strongly enough about this, he has to trust his instincts.

FWIW, I don't intend to insult myself by trying to persuade this man to 'get over' this belief of his and make a go of it with me. It's taken me too long to realise it, but I don't want to be with someone who has to be persuaded of his attraction towards me. But what he is saying not only hurts, but utterly perplexes me. Quite unlike XP, I believe that healthy relationships can and do develop from all kinds of beginnings ? including the lightning bolt variety, but also slow-burn friendships and even indifference ? and that we needn't get hung up on how they start, and instead concern ourselves with what they become.

This particular issue of XP's has been so destructive in our relationship, fuelling resentment, inadequacy and infidelity - and so for us, it's not going to work. But could having that spark ? and I don't mean your average cor-the-plumber's-fit spark, but more of a bang ? really be the be all and end all? XP reckons that starting his next relationship with it will enable him to be faithful. He sees it as something he can fall back when the going gets tough.

I think I'm just disbelieving, TBH, and obviously very hurt ? I've spent my entire twenties with a man who doesn't feel particularly attracted towards me. I'm wondering if he can really be talking sense here, or if he's simply chasing a mirage. Of course, I want to believe this is madness. What do you think?

for you. I thought it was only girls who tended to fall for the fairytale stuff, obviously not. It's a romantic ideal, very few people get to experience it.

Sounds like a very bad case of "the grass is greener" - seems like he was always on the look for the One, which is why he couldn't be faithful (although that could have just been an excuse) - but he has thrown away what appears to be a perfectly valid relationship for a fantasy, a dream that may never happen. He might wake up in 10 years time wondering what on earth he was thinking!

Sometimes relationships that start with the big bang don't last well; all that heat and passion is great at the beginning but not so good over time.

I am a firm believer in being friends with your partner first - worked for me, no great lightning strike here, just got to know each other steadily better until we realised that it was more than just friends.

I don't think that your ex wasn't attracted to you though - I expect he was, but because he was on the lookout for his "coup de foudre", he was willing to be attracted to others as well.

Anyway, the man lives in fantasy land and I think, in the long run, you are better off without someone who you know will always be looking for his One (since he has made it clear it isn't you )

He's talking garbage. Of course it can happen like like lightning bolts, but you are quite right, if he's "just not that into you", then yes, accept it, feel hurt, and pick yourself up and get back out there...

IME, someone talking like this has already found someone else and is being a weasel...let him get on with it (the twunt) and leave yourself free to live the adventure that is the rest of your life my love!

Goodness me. Poor you.

First, sympathy to you. I hope you're coping OK. It must be hard to deal with a break up after so long together.

Secondly, I am absolutely sure you haven't spent your twenties with someone who wasn't attracted to. He is an idiot to have made you feel this way.

Well, the "bolt" thing is rather prevalent in literature and culture. But, imo, that is precisely because it is so rare in real life. Not non-existent, to be sure, but rare. And i do sometimes wonder if some of the real life examples are post hoc rationalisations - people saying, and believing, they have experienced this because they feel they should. Which shouldn't diminish the "realness" of the experience.

There are also scientific studies which suggest that people do, indeed, read signals from other people that suggest optimal biological compatibility and that this is experienced as a kind of "bolt". But I don't know how real those "scientific" studies are. I've only ever come across reports of them in newspapers and magazines, so whether they have any actual scientific validity is something I'm in no position to answer.

The whole "The One" thing is slightly different, I suppose we have Plato to blame for that. I, personally, think it's quite a damaging concept.

Personally, I was brought up by an extremely leftie mother, who spent my childhood pouring scorn on the "Western, capitalist concept of Romantic love" and have consequently not really ever experienced the whole thing. And if I have ever thought I have come close to experiencing such a phenomenon, I have been deeply suspicious of what I am bringing to an encounter.

I wonder if I'm missing out?

Anyway, literature is also quite bleak about such "bolts". They tend to presage rather short-lived, tragic and intense romantic relationships. Which undoubtedly makes for great literature but perhaps not a happy life.

I don't want to say he's a bit of an idiot, because it would then imply you have "wasted" time by being with him and that in some sense your relationship was illusory. I'm sure it's not a waste, and it was, of course, very real. It's a true shame that something like this is pulling you apart when you wanted to be together.

Is it possible that this is his way of rationalising a kind of romantic curiosity on his part? you say you were together for many years, since you were both very young. Is it possible that he has had a sudden worry that, though he is happy being with you, he hasn't "explored" enough and so isn't completely sure?

Hurtful, daft behaviour in and of itself but perhaps more within the realms of the normal than this strange addiction to the idea of the "bolt".

Good luck.

Good Lord, I have never met a man like that in my life

Thank God I haven't, what an impossible ideal to live up to. I swear, if any bloke started talking about bolts and tweeting birds I would run a fucking mile. What planet is he on.

I believe he is trying to rationalise cheating behaviour.

As hard as this may sound, I don't even know why you are giving his stupid ideas any headroom. Life is not like that!

Unless you have dc together, cut this fantasist completely outta your life. He will enjoy all this bollocks he is spouting to you...its fucking navel-gazing of the highest order. All about him.

Move on. Find a real man.

He's a twat who used it as an excuse to be unfaithful. So not only is he a twat he has no balls.

I agree with the others.

You deserve better.

In my twenties I was in a long term relationship with an idealist (with NPD and bipolar tendencies). Sounds very similar to your story.

When I realised none of it had anything to do with me, that the issues/inadequacy were all his, I was able to stop questioning everything and move on to an extremely happy relationship. In my case, this process took a year, relocation and keeping contact with him to an absolute minimum.

You did not waste your twenties with this man and in time you will be able to see what you gained from the relationship. For now, detach yourself and rise above it. You will gain closure at some point - you don't need it now to be able to move on.

I agree with Anyfucker, it sounds to me like he's trying to justify his cheating on you.

Even if he does believe it, he is soooo missing the point of a long, lasting relationship. IMO it isn't all hearts and flowers, its about building a life with someone you respect and care for deeply. If you do get the fireworks, great. But they generally fade quickly to be replaced by something much deeper and (imo) better.

Let him go off and pursue his 'dream'. If he's waiting for a princess who will fill his every waking hour with hearts and flowers, he'll be waiting a long time.

You deserve better and he's probably done you a favour in the long run.

I also agree with Anyfucker.
Sorry that you have had to deal with this, he sounds very immature.
DO you have DCs?

BecauseSheSmiles - as hard as it sounds I think it is time for you to move on.

I agree with Pheebe (and Anyfucker) that DP is trying to rationalise infidelity.

Lightning bolts really do happen (me with DW) but sometimes love grows slowly (DW with me). After several years though something strong and deep has to develop to sustain a relaionship.

cherryblossoms - I really enjoyed reading your post too. Made me think.

Supportive posts - thanks. So I'm not imagining this is a bit absurd, then? EvenBetaDad - I recognise that these 'lightning bolt' experiences do exist, for sure. What I find bewildering is his insistence that his next relationship has to start this way, or else it won't work and he won't be able to be faithful. IMO, it is simply one route into a relationship, which then has to be worked at like any other. Do you think your initial lightning bolt attraction to your wife has sustained you through difficult times?

Yes, it is time to move on. I feel 100% sure of that. I think, because this has been my only significant relationship, I am trying to unpick it so that I can understand what I need to address in myself, and what kind of crap (i.e. this insistence on initial fireworks, and various justifications for infidelity) I can park firmly with XP, and not obsess about in any future relationship.

thumbwitch - we were great friends in the beginning, pre-relationship, which IMO should have been enough.

cherryblossoms - great post. I'm with you, in having some wariness of unrestrained romantic love and ideals. XP is a full-blown romantic, which of course the ladies love. I'm with you on the concept of 'the one', too. We did get together young, and so the idea that XP may want to experience other women is possible. The thing is, he was unfaithful in our time together, and we have been separated (but working through our difficulties, on and off) for some time, and during that time, he has played the field. So he knows what else is out there. By his own admission, he is very prone to 'grass is greener' syndrome, and I don't need the insecurity that comes with that hanging over me, my relationship, my family.

AnyFucker - I hear you. TBH, it didn't occur to me to run a mile, because it's all I've known, and XP can be very charming, persuasive, convincing. Now I see it. And we do have a child, so unfortunately, a complete break isn't possible.

Yes, it does seem he is using this ideal as an excuse for infidelity. He has said he does not believe he can be faithful to me, but could to someone with whom he has these fireworks.

Of course it's petty of me, but I rather hope he falls flat on his face. Karma and all that.

lovingpickles, we could have dated the same man. XP has had a few spells of being alarmingly 'up', as well as low, which has resulted in him currently being monitored for possible bipolar disorder. He has been a wholly different person at different points in our relationship, whereas I - and he sees this too - have been fairly constant. So at times I have felt we really were on the same page - connected by the same values; compatible. At others, it's been as though he's on another planet.

Again, I'll reiterate that I don't want this relationship back. I can see now how toxic it has been. But because it's all I know, I need to understand it, and as I said, know which issues I can leave well and truly behind with XP.

Thank you again for your supportive posts.

Yes, my XP and yours sound very similar. And your attitude and approach are exactly the same as mine! You clearly have what it takes to move on from this positively and in the right direction. You go girl!

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
sorry - that was my immediate reaction to his bullshit nonsense. I had a bf like that. He became a 'mate' and I became really good friends with his later gf (now ex) so I know he was serially like this, not just with me. He would start all hot and heavy, sex all the time, promising the earth, but it would tail off into no sex, no affection, withdrawing followed by cheating. He was convinced that the 'right woman' would make him settle down and each woman failed because they couldn't live up to his ideals. Plus he had sex issues that he expected to be magically fixed by the 'one', not by therapy and self examination - oh no.
This is very sad for you. You are right, what matters is how you are in the here and now, not how you started. My DH and I have a v romantic meting story, but it doesn't mean we aren't in serious trouble right now (). Beginnings are just that - and have sod all to do with how successful thje relationship is. He's an idealistic idiot who's in denial about his own relationship inadequacies (the 'one' will make him stop cheating? puhlease)

He will get a nasty shock when he gets that 'love bolt' and then it wears off after two years or so. Will he then be able to justify another infidelity? Being 'in love' usually only lasts two years and then you have to deal with making ther relationship you DO have work. That can be easy or hard, but usually does take some work.

Good luck to him . You deserve better.

This happened to me after dating a guy for four months. Everything going fine, went on holiday together, met the families, etc. Then he decided that he didn't think the relationship had a future. He described it as 'not having butterflies' in his stomach about me.

At the time, I thought 'unrealistic nonsense', but we ended up staying friends. A year later, he started a new relationship with the woman he ended up marrying. They have a little girl through IVF and are very happy together, and we are still in touch. They came to my wedding reception and I visit them when I'm in the U.S.

So, I don't think it's always complete bullshit. However. . .in the OP's case, it does sound completely stupid as they've been together so long and they have a child together. Sounds more like a 'grass is greener' thing rather than a genuine belief.

oh Yank, yes, but that does sound a bit different - I have friends who gave up relationships that seemed to be going well because they hadn't "fallen in love" with their gfs - there is a difference between fancying someone, loving someone and actually falling in love, isn't there.

Don't think that's what this guy was all about though - your ex worked it out after 4 months, a perfectly reasonable time frame - OP's ex hung on for years and years, a completely unreasonable timeframe.

thumbwitch, yes, I do agree the OP's situation is different and if her XP really felt that way he should have worked it out much earlier. My case was really to illustrate that some men do have this spark/butterflies/lightening bolt expectation, and it's not always just an excuse for infidelity.

Sadly in the case of the OP, it just sounds like the guy is looking for excuses. Agree there is a 'reasonable timeframe' for ending a relationship for non-spark reasons.

Yup, this is just immature bollocks, as your XP would possibly know if he had had a number of different relationships instead of meeting you so young.

Lightning bolts etc almost always signal physical lust, and physical lust dies back over time. It is a joke to imagine that if you meet the right person, you'll be ill with sex-lust for the rest of your life. How does he imagine happily married people manage to hold down jobs and look after DCs if they have to have urgent sex every half an hour?

I'd say that most successful relationships start from less fairytale beginnings and gradually build up to a deep commitment, ime this has always been the case anyway.

This guy is heading for a fall (if he actually believes this crap, which isn't a given), if he thinks that it is likely that he will meet a person who will give him lightning bolts for the rest of his life, or at all.

Sounds like standard justification for cheating, and classic grass is greener stuff. How long ago did you split? He'll probably come crawling back when he is forced to face reality, and understands what he's thrown away.

...so he was just keeping you around until he got this thunderbolt thing?

How dreadfully cynical and selfish he is...so he's happy not to have thunderbolts as long as his house is cleaned, his meals are cooked and his laundry is done...then he gets a thunderbolt and he just must act on it and be unfaithful while implying somehow it's your fault as you never gave him a thunderbolt moment...I agree with other posters, he sounds a real git and you deserve better.

If he does move on he'll do exactly the same to his next partner as he is totally selfish.

BecauseSheSmiles - I honestly do not understand why you feel the need to examine yourself. You have done nothing wrong at all.

I am also bewildered why he feels the need for a lightning bolt moment to start his next relationship. Love can start in all sorts of different ways. Sometimes it just creeps up on people.

As I said in my earlier post and agree with lots of other posts the 'lightning bolt' has to be replaced by something much deeper after a couple of years. It has to be replaced by something more resiliant to sustain real love through the ups and down of life and yes - to sustain it against the temptations of pursuing other possible relationships.

You deserve better and please do stop questioning yourself.

I agree with EvenBeta

Stop questioning yourself, it's not you, it's him. He is a dick.

You are not being petty to wish karma on him. Let's hope the luscious lady who gives him a "thunderbolt" moment turns around to him a couple of years later to say "no, sorry, you are not doing it for me...now run along you immature twat"

I love karma

You sound great, but put this to bed now. Have minimum contact to organise stuff for the dc, keep him out of your emotional mindspace and fgs, don't even think of taking him back when he comes crawling (cos I think he will)

He is clearly living in a dream world. It will hurt but now you can be free to be yourself and pursue men with more realistic expectations.