*Long* Why can't I like my MIL anymore?

[BibiThree]

Oh my, this is a LONG one.

I used to have a great relationship with my MIL, and thanked my lucky stars I had a good one. She's kind, generous and loves her son and grandchildren to pieces, but I felt our relationship deteriorate after the birth of dd1 and it's has gone from bad to worse - possibly only in my head, but I feel a cooling off between us that makes me uneasy. I want to repair it, but not sure if I can.

It started with small things like me bringing dd up as a vegetarian, "depriving her of nutrients" I was. Then controlling comments, repeated over and over. MIL is a confident woman, used to getting her own way and has a different parenting style to me entirely, so when we decided to do things differently to her she didn't like it. Then came the undermining of me, giving dd treats after I'd said she wasn't to have them or not until she'd eaten a proper meal/cleared her plate/whatever.

Then came the digs about the house/children. DH is a messy, messy person who doesn't tidy as he goes. I'm a working mother of 3 who hasn't got the time to always tidy as she goes and pick up after the children and do the cooking and cleaning and sort out the finances and holidays and shopping and basically everything. Now I'm not saying those things to make DH sound terrible, he's a fabulous father who more than pulls his weight with the children but 90% of everything other than childcare is left to me to sort out. She takes the children to our house after school (after she's had the dts for us in the day). Now I appreciate she has 2 days with them and they are 2 long days for her, BUT she volunteered her time, was at first willing to have them 5 days a week before I went back to work but now moans and moans and constantly reminds us how tiring they are and how shattered she is which not only makes me feel bad for letting her have them at all, but means we cannot ask for any babysitting on a weekend at all. Fair enough, lots of people aren't as lucky as us to have some part of their week as free childcare. But I'll come home from work and before I've even taken my shoes off she's got to remark about how clean/messy the house is. If I've put in some serious cleaning hours instead of spending time with my girls on the weekend she's got to comment "oooh, someone's been working hard, spring clean is it love?" or if it's messy " Well I daren't get the girls pyjamas after the mess on the landing last time?" (the laundry was spilling out over the basket). It's constant and every time she comes over. I've taken to just turning my back because I can't bite my tongue much longer.

I've asked DH to speak to her and he says he has, but either he danced around the issue and she didn't get it, or she's ignoring it. I know it's not a big thing, but I don't think it's polite or appropriate for her to come to my house and comment on my housekeeping. I'd never dream of doing that to her because it's rude. She still sees us as children (we're in our 30s) and thinks she can comment and tease us as such, but I find it patronising and disrespectful of my role as a wife and mother.

I think my problem is with how she makes me feel; incompetent, not good enough, and she doesn't respect my choices and decisions for my family. It's making me dread seeing her, I avoid it if at all possible because I can't keep grinning and bearing it. The last thing I want to do is to be rude to her or start an argument because I hate bad feeling, and I know she'll start to cry, put on her poor old lady only trying to help act and dh will think I'm mean and nasty to his mother. She's done it before to get her own way at our wedding, when dd was small and I wouldn't let her take her on holiday with her etc. Then I'm the bad guy. She can be manipulative without (I think) knowing she's being quite so?

I cannot tell you how good it feels to rant and let this all out. I've wanted to for months, possibly years, and I know it seems trivial compared to the actual abuse some people receive from their MILs, but it has bothered me for so long. I'd be grateful for any keep calm advice anyone has, if you've read this far!

Have had similar in the past with my MIL - comments like

"You never see an overflowing wash basket in MY house"
"I've done some ironing for you - there was such a lot there"
"I've cleaned your conservatory windows as you could barely see out"

(this last one was a classic as whilst she was being a domestic goddess she forgotten to give the DDs any lunch!!)

It sounds like your MIL also defines good mothering as good cleaning. My MIL used to look after DD1 for me one day a week to save a bit on nursery fees. I decided I couldn't tolerate the comments, she was busier cleaning my house than entertaining DD1 anyroadup, and saving money by accepting such loaded 'favours' just wasn't worth it. SO - DD1 (and now DD2) go to nursery or my (lovely non-judgemental) parents' house when I'm at work. I have a much better relationship with MIL and she occasionally has DD1 for a sleepover and DD2 goes to my folks so we can have a proper night off now and then. Ditch your MIL for childcare if you can!

I'm sure there will be someone along in a minute to tell you that you 'should be grateful she helps' and 'at least you get the free childcare'.

However, to me, she sounds a bit of a manipulative nightmare and you have my sympathies.

A firm talking to is in order, I think. Your DH needs to be the one to do it, but he has to be frank with her. If he's just going to skirt around the issue and not make his point clear, it'll just result in the scenario you described.

I agree she is being an arse but part of me thinks that if you want to have your children cared for in their own home by their grandmother, you have to expect that the boundaries are going to be more blurred than if you send them to nursery/childminder/nanny.

I think you need to decide whether you can put up with a certain amount of irritating stuff from her in return for this (presumably free?) childcare, or not. If you decide to keep the arrangement then I think YOU need to be the one to say something to her. Like "MIL I appreciate you don't mean to belittle me but I find these comments about the state of the house very upsetting. My choice is to spend time with the children or to keep the house immaculate - which do you think is more important? They won't be this age forever and I don't want to miss them growing up." Then if she keeps it up you have at least explained your position and DH can back you up, and you can decide what to do.

And expecting someone to step over dirty clothes to look after your child is a bit off OMHO. Not saying you are being unreasonable and I think I would feel the same way.

I should go and see her together with your DH and talk to her about it. Explain exactly how it makes you feel. Agree some ground rules together. Keep calm and friendly. If she can't see your points I would give up on the free childcare and pay for childcare.

Do you have any choice? Is there any way your finances could work without her contribution of free childcare? It sounds as though you are only going to get your previous good relationship back if/when it can be on a more equal basis - i.e. you are not so dependant on her.

I know it's a lifeline and you may not have a choice, but this is why, although they live close enough, my parents have never been a routine part of our childcare arrangements. They do plenty for us but it is on a 'help - I need someone to pick the DC up / drop them off / cover for me while I go to a meeting at school' variety. My DM actually went as far as to say she wanted it that way as well - she said that if she had them (for example) 2 days a week she was afraid she would start seeing her GC as a job or a hassle rather than wanting to spend time with them. It sounds as though that may have happened to your MIL to an extent?

You hae 3 options:
try and ignore it all - I play a game in my head like I'm on TV an dpretneding it doesn't bother me sort of thing
or have it out with her
or pay for childcare and tell her you don't need her anymore in a polite way

This MIL of yours sounds extremely controlling not just to say manipulative with the "poor old lady" act. DIL's in these situations see such behaviour for what it is. Its all about power and control and there is no room for two alpha females.

My guess as well that she never apologises, looks to others to blame and takes no real responsibility for her actions. Would also dare suggest that if she was challeneged by you, your words would be seen as an attack on her "good character". Such people usually retort back with a laundry list of your supposed shortcomings. This is why confrontation should be handled carefully.

In defence of your H (and this is really no excuse for him) he has been subjected to a lifetime of his Mother and this behaviour can therefore appear to him as "normal". He's been conditioned by her to accept this from her. He probably is to some extent also afraid of her.

BTW does he have siblings - was wondering how his brothers/sisters get along with their Mum.

I would certainly be looking to implement alternative childcare arrangments asap.

Ignoring it is very difficult and ignoring as well can lead to even more resentment between you and your H. Controlling people do find it very difficult to relinquish control and is often down to deep seated anxiety issues. Those are not your sto try and fix.

This is your DH's issue as well as yours - he needs to speak to her again with you present.

"Then came the undermining of me, giving dd treats after I'd said she wasn't to have them or not until she'd eaten a proper meal/cleared her plate/whatever."

"She can be manipulative without (I think) knowing she's being quite so?"

OMG, is your MIL my MIL?

I swear to god, she said this to me with grandmotherly pride-

"She threw a fit in the shoe store 'cos she wanted these shoes, so I had to get them for her."

A blood vessel burst in my brain as I forced myself not to scream "NO YOU BLOODY DIDN'T!!!!".

She has actually said- "I don't see her very much so I don't want to tell her no." To which I was basically

It may seem petty, but getting a reward for a tantrum like that really sets DD's behaviour back, and we're the ones who have to deal with it for months after visits.

DD's behaviour really suffers when she's around MIL because she knows that MIL will cheerfully undermine our parenting decisions.

Thankfully MIL is currently living on another continent, so I don't get any housework bullshit, but don't doubt that come the time we live close by I'll get a LOT of snarky comments as MIL is a cleaning nazi (although strangely, a food hygiene slob).

She also pulls the poor old lady act whenever called on her nonsense. Thankfully DH has been consistenly backing me up, which helps, but I'm certain she thinks I'm the problem.

My plan for next visit is-

a) Patiently explain until she gets really bored each time she undermines our parenting why she shouldn't and what we'd prefer she do.

b) Get DH to back me up, or perform this bored to compliance technique himself.

c) Walk away singing a happy song in my head when it all gets too much.

I feel for you.

I agree with TheProvincialLady and would also add that your MIL sounds like she is fed up with the committment of 2 days a week, so if you were able to have more childcare in the week and keep MIL for weekends etc. she might be relieved too.

She does sounds like a total cow though - my sympathies.

Sorry to post and run ladies, the internet wasn't running at home so I'm sneaking on MN in work again.

I spoke with DH about it last night, albeit briefly, and he has agreed to at least look into the possibility of putting them in creche another day a week, although it will probably cost more than I earn to send them both there for 2 days. Sadly, they don't discount twin places!

Thank you for all your replies though, it's good to see that I'm not being totally unreasonable and overly sensitive.

FWIW, MIL isn't expected to step over dirty laundry to look after my children, she had no need being in the bedrooms anyway - we live in a split level house with very steep stairs down to the bedrooms, so rather than have her go looking for things leaving 3 children on their own, we put everything she might need upstairs. She still finds reasons to go down there and snoop look for things.

Yes this is free childcare, and yes I do know how lucky I am to have that and I am grateful that she willingly spends this much time looking after her grandchildren. I just wish she didn't think it was acceptable to pass judgement on me(out loud). Incidentally, none of these comments come out when DH is around, he only has my word for it. Whether that's because she's intentionally only saying them to me because she thinks it's womens work or because she think dh would say somthing to her I don't know.

Her other son sees her about 4 times a year, only visits at Christmas, birthdays etc but if they were to spend any more time together than that they'd kill each other. He will argue with her and stand up to her, which is why they don't get on so well.

And the latest installment ... got home last night and dd1 was saying she was still hungry (almost always a ploy to get treats). I said she could have fruit and or a yoghurt as she had eaten a proper tea so I knew she wasn't starving hungry anyway. MIL, in front of dd, said "Well, what about a one of the little fairy cakes I made? They're only small, she can have one of them can't she?"
In what way is a cake fruit or yoghurt?! So beind gritted teeth in front of dd's pleading face I said "not today, she had a treat a lunchtime" to which she replied "oh let her, they're home made so it's not as if they're shop bought and full of preservatives". Kind of missing the point, I'd said what she could have, then I said no to the cake ... what was I meant to say then? It's just so frustrating having to repeat myself like she's a toddler. Should I have continued to stand my ground while dd got more excited about the prospect of cake or just given in for a quiet life?
I conceeded to cake after fruit btw. Rightly or wrongly.

This isn't so much a problem with your MIL as a problem with your DH who is not pulling his weight at home. Your MIL seems to be blaming you when she should be blaming your DH...

Why not just say to her "It would be nice if on occasions like this you could back me up not contradict me"? That would get the message across. You don't have to say it in front of DD but could say it later. I presume that's what you'd do if your husband did this.

"It would be nice if on occasions like this you could back me up not contradict me"

memorizes this useful phrase

Me and DH have an agreement re the housework. I take on the majority because I'm better at it, have more motivation to do it (har har) and if I want to remain part time in my job, he has to work longer hours to get where we want him to get in his. I don't mind that, as the one thing he never skirks on is spending his free time with the children. He does every early morning and has done since the dts were born, and does as many bedtimes as he can.
BUT I do think he could do more re his mother.
2rebecca, that is a GENIUS phrase!

Other people have said much more useful thins about reining in your MIL, but as to the house in general - how about spending a proportion of the money you're saving on childcare on getting a cleaner in one or two mornings a week? If one of the mornings is the day before your MIL has the DTs, how much more relaxed will you be feeling? And if she says anything about the money, just say 'well DH and I are both working fulltime, this gives us more time to spend as a family...' or something?

Having re-read this, my pride just wanted me to post that I am not a slattern btw. My house isn't dirty, it isn't even all that messy most of the time, but somedays it is. Some days I leave for work before dh and the children so i'm not around to pick up the mess they've made from the toybox, or clear away the breakfast dishes.
Apparently, this is the crime of the century because retired MIL and her retired husband never leave their dishes piled up, never have an over-flowing laundry basket and ... my personal favourite ... she can't understand why we don't just to a bit every evening to keep it tidy.
That would be because our house is complete bedlam until 7:30 and we're doing baths and pjs and stories. Then I make our tea and clear away the girls tea dishes, we sit down to eat and at about 9pm dh gets on with his work while I get the packed lunches and bags and clothes ready for the morning. Then it's time for bed because we're all up at 6.
Lazy, lazy me not wanting to mop the kitchen floor and do a spot of dusting.

I'm sorry, this has turned into a complete rant forum for me now. But I do feel better, thank you ladies.