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Original poster

PIL Racism and how to handle it

23 replies

TwoScrambledEggs · 20/04/2009 12:16

Prompted by the excellent PIL thread I thought I would ask your help with my MIL.

She is very nice (honestly) but a bit Daily Mail. She is sure she isnt racist, but objects to the Polish people having a new Cathedral and still defines people by colour etc.

My upbringing was flawed in that my step father was very overtly racist and while I like to think I am not, and try very hard not to be, I dont think I have the terminology right.

What I want to do is argue with MIL, OK that sounds bad, try again, what I want to do is gently steer MIL away from language that our children might pick up on. What should I be saying? What is the correct terminology when correcting your MIL. Usually this sort of thing doesnt come up, we never mention skin colour or religion or race in general conversation when she isnt here.

So, to summerise, I want to get it right but feel that because of my upbringing I am on shakey ground. What sort of replies can I give? Or maybe I should ignore it?

OP posts:

HolyGuacamole · 20/04/2009 12:42

I don't think you can change people who have these types of views or use that type of language. What you can do though is educate your children that is not acceptable.

If it was my own parents, I'd feel ok about saying "can you please not use those words in front of the children", but where it is inlaws it is a whole other story. You could open a huge can of worms for yourself. I'd leave it to DH or I'd say nothing and just concentrate on educating the children that just because grandma says certain words, does not mean they are ok.

AllFallDown · 20/04/2009 16:46

When she imputes certain characteristics to certain races, gently explain that actually you can't assume all [insert race here] are like that, just as not all white English people are hoody wearing Asbo bait. And explain that because your kids go to school with and live alongside kids of other backgrounds, it would be better to let them make their own minds up based on their own experience, rather than having a role model suggesting views that could actually land them in trouble if they were heard repeating them.

Ineedmorechocolatenow · 20/04/2009 17:20

MIL uses the term 'paki shop' in front of DS. It makes me furious ! They are lovely people, but a bit 'Daily Mail', like yours.

Next time it comes up, DH is going to ask them to stop using that kind of language. Someone once put on another thread that they'd told their ILs that they found those terms as offensive as the 'C' word. I think they got an idea then...

LongDroopyBoobyLady · 20/04/2009 17:26

Don't ignore it, it's unacceptable and rightly you don't want your DCs to hear it or hear it yourself. I told my dad and stepmum how offensive I find it and how I certainly don't want my DCs to hear it. They still do it (tho' not in front of the DCs) and I still keep telling them how ignorant they are - and I will continue to tell them.

I like the suggestion of the 'c' word and will use that next time.

Gemzooks · 20/04/2009 20:59

I think it's better that your DCs hear it and you explain to them why you don't agree with that kind of language. My grandparents were quite racist in phrases or in thinking that interracial marriage was wrong etc, and I witnessed a lot of vociferous arguments between them and my Mum over it, and I think it taught me more than if she'd somehow managed to pre-censor them.

Pinkglow · 20/04/2009 22:54

I had no idea until I was in my twenties that my gran was a big old racisit - my parents had had a word with her about it when I was a baby so she never voiced her opinion in front of me.

We have the same problem with DHs grandmother, at the moment DS is 5 months so dont feel able to say 'dont say that in front of DS' as he cant understand. We've tried everything to get her to stop it in front of us, arguing, going silent, saying we dont agree with that then moving on etc

notsoclever · 21/04/2009 10:14

Unless your dc are going to be brought up by your ILs, then your influence is going to be much, much greater than theirs.

My aged parents (who would never think of themselves as racist) still use phrases that are racist. Of course it is not right that they do it, but I have not found that my intervention has made any difference.

All the children in the extended family have been brought up to know that it is wrong - and they are the ones who now correct their gps. Much more effective than me doing it.

jennieflower · 21/04/2009 14:25

Sorry to hear this OP, I was thinking of posting a similar thread so will watch the replies with interest.

My FIL is exactly the same, recently I've told him how it upsets me and how I don't want my DC to hear such things and we've had several heated discussions about both PIL's attitude to "foreigners". Now it's almost as if he knows how much it upsets me but can't think about anything else when he's around me, and the conversation always gets led in the direction of "them" ("them" being anyone that's not White and English!)

DP and I often laugh about how narrow minded FIL is, I don't think we'll ever change his viewpoint, in fact it's probably going to be a lot easier to explain to DC that their Grandad is a silly clueless old bugger than to persuade him to modify his language in front of us!

Original poster

TwoScrambledEggs · 22/04/2009 09:59

I feel like I cant just let it pass. The problem is its so subtle, its not blatent or clear, it kind of sneaks into the conversation and I find myself half agreeing if I dont pay attention. Its all so reasonable!

I like your phrase AllFallDown, and I think the gentle approach is the way to go.

My other problem is terminology. She says something generalising all people because of there colour, I counter it with 'you cant call all black people good runners' and I already feel I have slipped into the past with my language and sound just as bad! I just dont know which words to use as I was brought up hearing all the wrong ones, and they are in my subconscious.

I guess even if I get it wrong at least I am trying.

OP posts:

standanddeliver · 22/04/2009 10:09

My MIL is a Daily Mail reader and we get the odd rant about immigrants. Funny thing is that FIL is an immigrant himself. Came over here from Guyana to work for British Rail in the late 1950's and never went home.

MIL sometimes calls FIL 'Idi Amin' and makes jokes about how dark he is.

They've been happily married for 50 years so I don't suppose he minds that much.....

OP - I wouldn't say anything to or in front of your MIL unless it really starts to get to you. Then go into full argument mode - challenge her to defend her views. This is only likely to happen on one occasion. Most people decide to avoid the subject in future after they've been challenged openly.......

ArcticLemming · 22/04/2009 10:14

I have a similar problem, which thankfully has got better since PIL married a lovely woman who also finds it unacceptable (his previous partner was even worse!).
They see them rarely so I'm not too worried about the attitude rubbing off on my DDs but I do worry that they could pick up unacceptable language (and TBH just hate the thought of them being exposed to those sort of attitudes). Iwas thinking of actually saying to PIL that if one of the DDs were to repeat what he said in school they would be in big trouble (which is true).While I think this is probably a bit of a passive aggressive approach, I've tried more direct challenging (and am just told I'm wrong, and don't understand the way the world works) I think if I can't change his attitudes I can at last point out how unacceptable it would be for the DDs to pick up on his language. It would probably inspire a "political correctness gawn mad" sort of speech, but might be something he woudl take on board if he thought it would have a detrimental effect on his GDs.

Juxal · 22/04/2009 11:27

You can always go to the ridiculous end of the spectrum. If she says "all black people are good runners", you can come back with something like "and all white people are lazy goodfornothings gorging on McDonald's and living off benefits" - with a big smile.

Juxal · 22/04/2009 11:29

"all white people are toffs who went to Eton and live in castles"

lal123 · 22/04/2009 11:34

Again - I have similar problem with BIL who is a homophobic, rascist bigot. (I'm NOT going to say - but otherwise he's ok!!!)

At MILs for tea the other night I was saying how I'd missed the end of Brokeback Mountain to which he replied "Thats disgusting, you might as well ask paedophiles to babysit". Was so gobsmacked I didn't know what to say apart from "you really are an arse aren't you?"

MrsMerryHenry · 22/04/2009 11:39

Lal123 - !! I somehow had convinced myself that people like your BIL don't exist.

I like the suggestion of 'the C word' - will remember that if my (golliwog-owning ) MIL ever comes out with another ethnically offensive statement.

jennieflower · 22/04/2009 11:46

My mum bought DD a gollywog when she'd taken her out for the day. She knows my feelings on them too, but thought she was hilarious for doing so.

Actually, DD's says "jolly dolly" on the label, but my lovely mother told her that this was wrong and that the correct name is gollywog. Horrible old bat!

MrsMerryHenry · 22/04/2009 11:50

Can I slap your mum? (sorry, I don't mean it really, it's just that the golliwog thing annoys me so much!).

Can you not just tell her it's an offensive object and get rid of it? I'm black, DH is white, and if my MIL ever bought DS a golliwog I'd go spare. She wouldn't, though. But equally she wouldn't get rid of her horrible golly ornaments.

Original poster

TwoScrambledEggs · 22/04/2009 12:33

"you really are an arse aren't you?" I bet thats the only thing I can remember when stressed with MIL now!

OP posts:

jennieflower · 22/04/2009 12:37

Actually I've already confiscated it, I'm so embarrassed about it I daren't even chuck it in the bin in case the bin men see it!

Nobody in my family understands why I hate them so much, your average daily mail reader would say they're an innocent toy but I hate what they've come to symbolise.

I actually pass a car every day that has one hanging off the rear view mirror, it makes my blood boil to see it, if I ever see the owner I'll definitely confront them about it.

jennieflower · 22/04/2009 12:39

Oh and as for rising damp! Why is it still repeated on TV?

MrsMerryHenry · 22/04/2009 14:28

Jennieflower - well done for getting rid of it. I'd say to anyone who says it's an innocent toy that they should google it and find out where it originated. Innocent? Never!

Rising Damp - not really seen it, only the odd clip on other shows. What's offensive about it?

2rebecca · 22/04/2009 18:17

I think if your children are brought up by you and their dad to be non racist then the odd comment by racist grandparents won't do much harm. Mt grandfather was very racist, my parents weren't though and as I got older I just saw him as a product of his generation and background. I still loved him but disliked his views.
On the other hand if the grandparents live near and want frequent contact with your kids I'd tell them they can't if they are going to be racist in front of them. I never bothered arguing with my grandad, neither did my very pc mum, she'd just grumble about him later. Ignoring the comments meant they soon passed, it was usually just an occasional comment, not a long tirade.

TweetleBeetle · 22/04/2009 18:36

Using the c word is very effective.

Was trying to tell mum again tat the word coloured is not used these days as its deemed offensive and she argued that inher day the term black was offensive.

I tried saying that in her day the words chink, paki and faggot were also acceptable but she didn;t use them now - she tried saying she would (I know she wouldn't!).

I then tried explaining that the great thing about the english language is that it is constantly eveolving and we have to learn that words that were once acceptable now aren't. She told me I was being ridiculous, so I said, oh really, well what about that nice 14th century word cunt!

Well that shut her up!!!

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