The children talk before you have them

[MuffinBaker]

SO many threads all the time on here about
nobheads men who see childcare/housework as women's work and as helping when they do anything with/for the kids. The women moan that the men do nothing.

Can't understand it myself.

I do actually wonder about this.

I mean, yes, sometimes it feels like that, like I had the nous to choose a good hardworking caring sharing husband.

But what I strongly suspect actually happened is that I hoped that's how he would turn out- and then he did. More luck than judgment. I didn't make him.

I am not a patient person, so it is possible that I would have walked out if he'd turned out a lazy sod. Having said that, my earning power is currently rather low, so that possibly makes it rather less likely: perhaps I wouldn't be likely to hoof it to the women's refuge because he refused to do the hoovering.

Hard to tell with a situation you haven't been in.

We did discuss housework and my career before I got pregnant though, and I have not been slow to remind him if I ever felt he was falling down on the job.

I don't believe the OP was referring to cases of abusive men, more the general "my dh is is lazy sod" kind of posts - and there are a lot of them. Hell I've even done them myself.

I think for people with abusive partners this is a whole other thing. Though I am genuinely interested to know how these partners were early on? All sweetness and promises as Reality said? Did they help round the house before dcs? Were there warning signs? This might be really useful for others?

we never had any chats about having dc I said I wanted them so if he wanted to be with me then children would be happening (well thankfully we didn't haven't problems conceiving) but I am probably the bossy one who will not back down so dh probably does more than his fair share.

I wonder if it depends how happy you are to rock the boat and risk a row or whether you back down to keep the peace. I was paranoid at becoming the down trodden woman my mum was.

I was off having my dinner.

Portofino - yes, pretty much.

Sometimes men say they will do this and that, but when it comes to it, they don't. Then you have a baby, and you are stuck.

Why are you stuck though?

You don't have to accept that it is okay for him to do nothing

Before anyone else says I have conveniently disappeared, I am going to watch tv with DH.

I wasn't talking about violent men though I would have to ask why you are still with them.

I am talking about getting the feel of a man before you have children by seeing how he is in the house wrt chores, etc.

When we first had a chat about having children DH was adamant that he would have nothing to do with the children until they are 15yo and then he would take over!

Well, he gave DD1 one her vey first bath, still in the hospital! It did not take him long to be absolutely in love with her and he is still now, 3 more DCs on, a very hands on dad. I am actually very glad it did happen this way and not the opposite!

you can't always tell even if you do have the talk beforehand

men can be very bells and whistles on housecare and childcare at first when it's just playing house and being hands on with a baby in a really quite "look at me" way

then they realise it's actually quite dull and tedious and they think "my Dad never had to do this" and slowly but surely it all goes backwards

until suddenly you have someone who's quite "helpful" about when to give Calpol and how much reading should be done and how the table has to be laid

but oh dear they won't get up in the night for vomiting or do the hoovering any more

MuffinBaker - The problem is that the threads you see are the one where women are complainng about DH being a lazy so and so. We hardly ever see see women saying 'my DH is so good at helping out' because that is what they expect and do not see it as remarkable so we never hear from them.

In formal statical language it is what is called a 'sample selection bias'. The sample of women we hear from are the minority of really very unhappy ones - and we hardly ever hear form the happy ones who may well be in the majority.

[Phew! I knew my PhD in Statistics would come in handy one day. ]

hotcrossllama

ABetaDad, you may be right! But on the other hand it could genuinely be that dad's don't pull their weight - especially in the case of SAHMs.

My dh for example. He hoovers, he puts the bins out. He washes windows, does gardening. He is fab with dd. When it comes to watching tv or playing, or putting her to bed. He rarely makes her food or puts her in the bath though, but will at my specific request.

He doesn't buy her clothes or think that she has grown out of everything. He doesn't make sure there is enough cash on hand to pay for her school dinners. He doesn't remember that she is going to a birhtday party and needs a pressie and ironed clothes. He didn't pack her bag for pirate camp.

So he's a GREAT dad, and he is. But I'm a MOTHER. And that is how it works in our house. But not necessarily in yours

MB, I see what you mean as well...

although I guess what people say and do is another thing....women as well as men.

Dh promised me the earth when trying for our 1st, his mother told me "oh he will be a brill dad,he will cut out his lads night out" blah de dah..(like she knew..)

Well after 2 mc's dd arrived and I guess 90% of the time dh is a fab dad. With dd and ds.

Im a sahm so virtually everything falls onto me where the kids are concerned. BUT dh does know that being a sahm is a full time (plus..) job and does help out as and when. He does come home from work and help with dinner/lunch/baths and entertaining etc.

He doesn't do the housework regular BUT will help if prompted (although there have been occasions when he's stepped up the the plate without prompting )...(hmm..usually when he wants something)

BUT don't get me wrong, dh is also the type who wants his cake and eat it..Does have episodes of moaning how hard the dk's are (hmm..I do it 24/7..) or will give me an hours notice to feck off out with the lads or works away from home and not realising that its not just childcare help I appreciate BUT also having my dh home.

I often remind him that before the dk's it was just me and him and he sholdn't forget it. Sometimes I do admit, I do feel slightly abandoned. Like a toy he's got bored of..

I guess that what imsaying is that its easy to promise things before you get what you long for. Once it arrives its easy to fall into bad habits. Its also not so easy to move on.

The days I so hate dh I could easily walk out on him with the dk's BUT then the other days I think of how hard he works for us and in comparison to others how good he can be .

Hope that makes sense. x

just to add....what doesn't help with dh & I I guess is the fact that dh is happy to live in his own mess...I on the other hand... (as my MIL told me today ) am probably boardering on OCD..

Yeah, my dh goes on foreign work trips and swears he told me in advance. And he didn't. And is supposed to let me know if he is going for a drink after work, but doesn't alway bother, especially as I am primed to think he is "working" late.

I long to be able to do the same "just to show him", but of course it is not possible.

snap PF.

Thing is dh works away alot atm and while away socialises BUT in his view its not socialising as they are not the lads ...so the 1-3 nights he goes out for a meal/drinks are not counted as nights out to him...

I don't so much mind him workng away..as long as once home he pulls his weight and gives me time out. The reason being, I have been on call basically 24/7, have had disturbed night sleep etc. BUT dh doesn't always see it that way. Sometimes thinks being a sahm is days filled with shoping trips, soft play days, and lunch etc. Yeah like its easy with 2 dk's!

Must admit, I do get miffed when dh is home and nips out for something or needs to do work at home BUT I guess I can't complain all the time..

Like you said, the day will come when I pop out for a loaf and not come home till 4am the next day .

I think the problem can be the 'getting your man to step up', i got bored of trying to get him to step up. I stepped up as soon as i became a mum and have never felt the need to step back down, but for some men the problem seems to be that once sleepless nights and terrible twos are done and dusted they are happy to just sail through the rest of their dc childhood with very little effort.

For us, it wasn't until we had a baby that we realised how crap we BOTH were at housework. Neither of us could cope with the rapidity and stickiness of the messes being generated. I don't think either of our domestic habits before the baby gave much indication of what would follow afterwards.

We figured it out in the end, but I think it's fairly hard for any couple to predict with any accuracy what life will be like after children. Whilst talking about it beforehand is good, it will probably be redundant once you're in the thick of it.

but sometimes we just need to vent, and then we can carry on

Had to remind myself of the OP then.....I was 35 when I got PG and dh 46. We never palnned dcs at all. I used to earn LOADS more than him at the time. The chores were shared i think.

There was really no question of me taking extended ML. I was the main wage earner. I never really worried about it at the time. It was hard to go back to work, but dd was a happy baby and I just got on with it. It worked fine for us.

Faced with redundancy (and we both worked for the same company) dh took a promotion abroad. I had to pack in my well paid job and give up a year's salary worth of redundancy payment. I found another job very quickly but DH now out earns me (expat tax break only).

Now he is "more important" and feels he can do the things mentioned above. I just put things in his work calendar now - "going out tonight with girls - need you to collect dd from school" Outlook is fab!

oh im not as technical with "outlook" I just use a good 'ole wall calendar .

Must admit, dh is getting better at checking it now...and even asking me "anything planned this wkd" or "on x date.." .

erhmmmm...what about the mums who genuinely thought they'd be good at all this but then find they are spending all their times on MN while the poor father of their children is sorting out the laundry and doing the washing up?

is mn not classed as work ........................................................