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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What do I do about this friend?

12 replies

musicposy · 07/04/2009 23:30

I'm sorry if this is long!

I have a friend who I have been close to since our daughters were very small (my DD1 is 13 and her DD is 12). She is funny and generous, and we've shared a lot. But recently I've been feeling that the friendship is causing me more upset than happiness, and I'm not sure what to do.

As background, she's always been fairly pushy for her children, and pretty competitive. If we started doing something, she would quickly copy. Her daughter started piano, ballet and ice skating all within weeks of me announcing my DD was doing them. She expects her DD to achieve highly, both academically and in all her outside activities. She once told me that since she spends all this money, she expects something in return. I said nothing (she's the kind of person you can't argue with, it's easier to let things drop) but it seemed very odd to me. My children do those things because they want to. Whilst it's nice to see them doing well, all I "expect in return" is their happiness. Up until fairly recently, both girls have been fairly level pegging, both academically and in all the activities they do. So, although I knew there was an element of competition there, it never affected our friendship.

Everything was great with us until last summer. Then in September, my daughter became home educated (don't flame me for that, I nearly put it in the home ed section but it's really a friendship issue). Since being home educated she has gone from strength to strength in every way you can imagine. She has made great friends, she is taking 3 GCSEs next summer, has made enormous strides in her ballet and skating. She's happy and thriving.

For a while, my friend pressed me to but my daughter on the waiting list for her daughter's school (they were not at the same one). Recently, it has become obvious that she won't be returning to school.

The last few months have become increasingly uncomfortable between us. Within minutes of seeing my friend, she digs at me over the homeschooling. I try to keep it really low key, but she is constantly saying, of course (her daughter) has to get up in the mornings/ can't do nothing all day like my DD/ can't go ice skating all the time like us/ can't practice ballet the whole day like we do...etc...

Most of these statements are utter nonsense. My daughter still gets up the same time she ever did, and we are not free to do whatever we want all day because her studying takes up a lot of time. But she won't be corrected or argued with, and I've given up trying. I just agree now to keep the peace, but I hate having to agree to things which are not true to keep her happy. The truth is, she knows virtually nothing about our days and how they work because she doesn't want to hear it. So I try not to mention it at all, but still I get these constant jibes.

Two things have happened in the last week. Firstly we went to a ballet audition. My two girls got in and hers didn't. She was so angry at the end, she made a whole series of comments to me about how the whole thing was unfair and biased(all pretty hurtful) and stormed off pushing past my daughter without saying well done or even goodbye. Secondly we went skating and she realised my daughter had passed an exam during the term (which I hadn't mentioned for fear of upsetting her). Mostly she was really nasty to her own daughter, saying that if she wasn't going to try harder she would stop lessons, but she made more of the same jibes to me about how, of course, we can go up there every day now (we go once a fortnight but I can't tell her that, she refuses to listen).

As I post this I can tell that the whole thing sounds really nasty and competitive, and not what friendship should be at all. The skating thing was two days ago and I was shocked at how nasty she was to her own daughter, as well as to me, and I still feel pretty rung out over it.

My feeling is that this friendship has run its course. I suspect that if I put DD1 back into school everything would be hunkydory again, but of course, I can't change our family's life choices to suit other people - and nothing stops her from making the same choices in her life. But my daughter is very keen for me to salvage the friendship as her daughter is her longest standing friend and very valuable to my DD. Her daughter is a really lovely girl, too, and I feel responsible for not ending their friendship - it would be harder for them to see each other as they don't live that near.

I would talk to her, but I suspect I won't get past the first sentence. She is very quick to see faults in others but would never acknowledge she is being upsetting in any way - I know it would be all my fault. Yet she has had my DD in tears before now for digging at her so much over these issues. She really won't leave it alone.

Any advice would be really appreciated.

OP posts:
outnumbered2to1 · 07/04/2009 23:46

it seems like she is just plain nasty and jealous of your relationship with your daughter. You could try inviting her to spend a typical day with you and your daughter to see exactly how much 'free time' you really have but she sounds like one of those people who believe that money can solve any and all problems and when it doesn't they have no idea how to react. Her behaviour towards your daughter however is totally unforgivable. If you can't speak to her for fear of upsetting her then its a not a friendship i'm afraid

DSM · 07/04/2009 23:49

Stop being her friend. She is nasty, jealous and vindictive, and far, far too competitive. She is nothing but spiteful.

I would just stop seeing her. Stop calling, stop making arrangements. Make excuses, end the friendship. Your DD's can still be friends, they are old enough to spend time together without you two spending time together. Drop your DD off at her house, have the other girl round to yours, take them both somewhere for the day. In a couple of years they'll be old enough to go out alone together anyway.

You sound like a really lovely mother by the way, I think it sounds like you are doing the right thing for your daughter.

ilovesprouts · 07/04/2009 23:52

she sounds jealous to me

ilovesprouts · 07/04/2009 23:53

she sounds jealous to me

hopefullandfree · 07/04/2009 23:57

Well done regarding the home education, not an easy decision and one people often have judgmental ideas about.
Your freind sounds like an ignorant bully, and as for having your daughter in tears over jibes, that is appalling.

Lose your freind, explain to your daughter that she is not a freind, freinds dont behave that way, and in fact if you were to keep this freind simply for your daughters benefit that would be setting a poor example, particularly so if your daughter sees you backing down to her.

The girls will either continue to be freinds or not, although it sounds like your freind is the sort of person who will discourage it once you make your feelings clear.

thumbbunny · 08/04/2009 00:03

Gosh. She sounds jealous, yes. Highly competitive and she wants what you have. She perhaps is/was very insecure and copied you in the first instance because she liked you and what you have, but now she is trying to out-do you and be better - this is not healthy, especially when it is at the expense of being kind to her DD (who I'm sure was upset at not getting in and could have done with some supportive "never minds" not being told off)

Step away as much as you can.

musicposy · 08/04/2009 00:04

Thanks for your replies! It made me feel better just posting it as I've been awake at nights thinking it over (can you tell by the time?!) and it's great to read your replies.

I do think jealousy is the whole root of it because we have got on so well for years. But I find it hard to understand why, because she always says she would never ever homeschool herself, and I absolutely respect that. So why be jealous of us?

I can see that she is gradually losing her grip on her daughter who is starting to rebel against it all, whereas I am close to my DD. We have some of the usual teenage stuff, but generally, we get on fantastically well!

This has clarified my thinking a bit. I think, that with my DD, I will work out ways they can get together on their own. My friend and I have got into the habit of, say she drops her daughter off, she stays and has a cup of tea etc, so it's almost expected, but I can make excuses. The older they get, the easier it will be for them to do stuff alone.

OP posts:
musicposy · 08/04/2009 00:20

outnumbered - I think my good relationship with my daughter is making things worse, yes.
DSM - thank you so much for those kind words.
hopefullandfree - it has started to feel like bullying. That's exactly what my DD was saying to me today.
thumbunny - I was quite shocked at how she treated both her daughter and mine on both occasions.

I will definitely back off from this one. It's a shame as we have been friends a long time, but I don't think things will change.

I'm going to bed now. Thank you all again!

OP posts:
Shitemum · 08/04/2009 00:27

If being friends with someone is hard work or brings you little joy the friendship is not worth continuing.

discoball · 14/04/2009 22:52

Let's put it this way.... I think most people would rather have a friend like you than her!! She sounds like a jealous, competitive, pushy parent who is very self-centred. You're better off out of it! As for home schooling, how can it be wrong when your children are happy?! You can choose your friends, life is too short! You sound like you have done everything you can to "salvage" the friendship, but I think it can be emotionally damaging to have this constant battle going on/analysing everything/etc... Good luck.

eskimum · 15/04/2009 22:20

You might not like this as it sounds as if others have said what you wanted to hear but hey I've had 2 glasses of wine and feel like just giving another point of view ....

So, you say she is your 'friend' but you don't seem to have given much thought or empathy to why she might be acting like this/saying these things. I don't think she sounds 'nasty' or a 'bully'. Jealous, maybe, but why do people get jealous? because they are unhappy with their own lot? lacks the confidence to do as you have? worried that you have made this choice and that she will have less to do with you as a result?

You've been friends for a long time. Friendships go through good and bad times like any relationship. Perhaps you have so many friends that you can afford to cut them out when you get fed up with them? You're lucky if you do.

Shalotta · 17/04/2009 09:58

There is a good book by Susie Orbach about jealousy and envy between women. The book describes quite well what you are experiencing here with this person. Jealousy amongst women is a very common thing, it has a lot to do with women not being able/not being allowed to assert themselves and find their own identity.

There are basically two ways of dealing with this situation. Either you leave the friendship or you confront your friend about her jealous behaviour.

Personally I have a tendency to react quite sensitively towards the jealousy of female friends. Somehow I think it should not be part of a real friendship, but one cannot deny that a little bit of envy here or there is normal and occurs to everyone who is in a slightly inferior position to the other (even if this position is perceived only on a subjective basis).

As other people have pointed out here, you know this woman since a long time now, so it may be important to weigh the pros/cons of this relationship. Is this someoneo you really appreciate but who behaves a bit erratically at the moment or do you suspect it is a firm component of her character. In the former case taking a bit of distance might help. In the latter case, leave her alone. And, of course, there are limits to female jealousy... e.g. trying to steal someone else's boyfriend, etc. this woman here sounds harmless but quite childish.

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