Picking up a baby by the arm. It's really wrong, isn't it?

[wowzers]

My husband picked up our 12mo baby by the upper arm today and lifted him a few feet. DS had repeatedly climbed up on a low table and DH was angry by this time and this is how DH removed him. DS cried out but was fine as soon as he was set down.

I was really shocked and reacted quite strongly (said it could have hurt him, dislocated something). I asked him how he'd have felt if he'd seen nursery staff doing that. I said I'd have reported nursery staff for abuse.

We're at an impasse. I'm not accusing him of abuse, but I am worried that he did this in anger. He's saying I'm being ridiculous and is ready to pack his bags.

There's obviously more to our relationship than this one incident but I really want to know if this is beyond the pale.

If this was just a one of "not thinking" type incident then i wouldn't be worried. But there are so many "flags" in your posts. His temper, his shoutiness with the children, his physical abuse!!! Nothing worse than a shouty father, well of course there is the one that hits - can you be sure he wont be the one that hits?

Oh gosh I didn't realise this was so bad. I pick ds (20 mo) up by one arm sometimes. Not if I can help it, but if he is getting into something he shouldn't and I only have one hand free I swoop him out the way using his arm . He also has a habit of going limp for no reason, so if he does this while we are walking he ends up hanging by the arm for a second till I can sit him down/use my other hand. I have once had to pull him across the road like this too- he went limp in the middle of crossing and the green man disappeared, he wouldn't stand up and my other hand had bags in so I just lifted him across to the other side. I know its not nice and I wouldn't do it to hurt him on purpose (obviously) and I'm not angry when I do it, just want him out the way quickly without dropping stuff everywhere.

I had no idea I could be hurting him, he never seems to get upset about it, I feel like such a crap mum now. I'm never going to do this again even in hast, the thought of dislocating something is awful.

What am I supposed to do instead? How do you move your children swiftly if there is something in your other hand? An arm around their waist or is this just as bad? Or do you just drop cups/bags/other children! Would really appreciate some help here maybe I am missing something obvious.

You're not hurting him bigbang- you would know if you were hurting him it's just that there is a possibility of dislocating something. I'm not sure how old they are before you can play swinging around by the arms type games. I'll try and find out. Can't you use reins or pushchair? Holding him around the waist is fine though.

I wouldn't have known about the possibility of dislocating something myself but luckily read it in a parenting book while I was pregnant. I think they should make more things clear in the hospital book when you have your baby.

bigbang You are not a bad mum!!

Arm round the waist is good. You might have to drop other things in an emergency.

And you might have to pick them up by the dungaree straps in a real "stopped in the middle of the road emergency"

the worrying thing is the anger and abuse you refer to - what strategies does your h have to deal with his anger? has he addressed this? does he use his own "time out" - see
www.respectphoneline.org.uk/data/files/spot_the_warning_signs__take_a_timeout_leaflet.doc

linked to from

www.respect.uk.net/pages/what-can-you-do.html

can he control his anger?

start logging this and other incidents to establish a patter of his anger towarsd you/the child...when eh breaks things etc. write down what triggered it, how you responded, what then was the outcome....

how can you change your reaction to his behaviour?

tehre are very worrying issues here that might result in someone getting hurt - nit just a dislocated elboow or shoulder (my dd has ahd several of those but ahs hypermobile joints so is prone)

Hi Cestlavielife tried that site but could not find the page. Can you check the link address please?

Wowzer - My DP undergoing anger management at moment as he storms about slamming doors etc, and also thinks its possible/acceptable to discipline a toddler - I prevent him every time as his response to her normal toddler actions is off the mark and I have to explain to him how to respond each and every time. I wonder if its because he hasnt been around as many children as me, or he is just too thick and controlling to care! Whatch out for the anger side of it as if they can;t control their initial anger response it is hard to see how they will cope when the toddler decides to have a normal terrible twos meltdown.

I also started to keep tabs on when he was worse and found that my DP is far far worse after he has been on a boys night out to play xbox - the hair trigger temper lasts for days.

Accoring to the following website it is thought to be safe to pick up a child by their arm only after the age of 5.

here

www.respectphoneline.org.uk/data/files/spot_the_warning_signs__take_a_timeout_leaflet.doc

or go from the respect.net site www.respect.uk.net/phoneline.php

www.respect.uk.net/pages/what-can-you-do.html

Manage the risk - short-term solution
As a short-term solution you can read the leaflet below. It can help you understand how you get wound-up and how you can decide to walk out before it's too late, before you become violent. Remember, this is only a short-term solution and it is entirely your responsibility to behave in a non-abusive, non-violent way. Download Spot the warning signs, take a 'Time-Out'

Thanks for all your responses and sorry it's been a while since I checked in.

At least I know I wasn't overreacting by thinking that was not the right way to pick up a baby. And I gave DH some of the examples in this thread about dislocations. Thanks for the cautionary tales Harlot, whoisasking, Nabster, iwontbite. They may have saved another dislocation.

I also now know not to play swinging games with DD (2.5). She loves being swung up curbs when we're out walking, so we'll need to stop that!

Cestlavie the anger management stuff is useful to me and even better if I can get DH to read it. Even when he did calm down and apologise for grabbing DS like that, he said it was because he has so much anger inside of him because of me. So that leaflet rings true. DH doesn't consciously manage his anger, but maybe he'll do the timeouts?

Absolutely, you did the right thing. No one should grab a child in anger, and that is what he did. This IS abuse and should NEVER happen again. If it does, you should do what it takes to remove the children from this environment, or you are enabling this abuse.

he said it was because he has so much anger inside of him because of me

Oh, eeek. So he has anger problems, shouts at the (very small) children, has been physically abusive to you before (when you were pregnant, right?), and he blames you for his continuing anger? And he talks about "chastising" a one year old.

If he's not taking responsibility for his anger, it's likely that another episode of physical abuse will happen. Throwing and breaking things is not normal, it's physically intimidating, and it's a huge red flag.

I think it is an unacceptable way of lifting a small child - imagine danglig with all your weight while someone holds YOU by your upper arm.

I also have a story about a loving father who was playing with his daughter by swinging her around by her hands. Child was loving it, until it got a bit too far and ended up dislocating wrists, elbows AND shoulders!!

Conversely, I have been known to lift my kids up by their feet, but only in play, only when I am sure they are enjoying it, and never forcefully, always gently.

It's all about intent, isn't it?