My dad is scaring me

[yesballgames]

My dad lives on his own after splitting with my mum 25 years ago. He is a generally nice guy, seems to have withstood the time alone well. He loves my daughters (1 and 3) very much - and has really become a super grandad, visiting every two weeks and staying over, helping out by playing with them and looking after them (not with me out of the house) . He plays brilliantly with them and its obvious they really love him too.

BUT I started noticing the limits to his temper at the age when DD1 became more independent - he can get really easily wound up if she is not doing what she is told and he snaps and shouts. Occaisonally he says things like " you silly little girl!' This has been really bothering me and I have been trying to bring it up for ages - then yesterday we had two incidents - first was when DD1 was whining about something (repetitively as 3 year olds do) and he said "Oh shut up!" quite sharply. then later she was doing something similar and he said " stop being so stupid!" in an angry way.

And I flipped! all ideas of presenting the issue in a non confrontational way went out the window! And I said he was not allowed to say things like that to her and that if he couldnt understand that then he couldnt see them . I asked if he agreed that it was important not to use that sort of language and he said no. He has said before that he doesnt believe that what you say to kids shapes them - that they are born with a personality - which frankly astounds me from an otherwise intelligent and well read man....
the argument ended badly and as the kids were there, never resolved.

Now what to do? 99% of the time he is a brilliant grandad. the other one percent has got me so upset I just dont know what to do- it is not enough for me that he manages to watch his mouth around me if he doesnt see how damaging words can be to a child... and it has brought back lots of memories and feelings - how often was I called stupid? Lots I can only guess. I definately remember being punched in the stomach when I had been annoying in the supermarket - can I presume that wont happen to my kids if he gets out of control with his anger????

I realise I have to speak to him but I am shit scared - he is a sulky, difficult man at times. I think there is also a core problem which is that I have never felt that he is at all interested in me (just the kids) as he never asks me questions or replies to my attempts at talking about things I am interested in....
ARgh. I am so torn. His visits allow me a bit of help (I am on my own all day with the kids) and they love him so I want to mend things, not break them...Im sure his grandaughters have given his life new meaning too so I just dont know how to proceed..... any ideas or reflections much appreciated. x

Don't know how to reply as haven't spoke to my own father for 2years yours are one of the many reasons why,

tell him he risks not seeing his grandchildren again if he does not keep his behaviour in check?

Hopefully he will be a bigger man than my father and want to address this

I think you have become aware of potential problems in plenty of time to stop them escalating

You say he never has them alone?

So loosely supervise and step in if necessary

They love him, he loves them, you cannot throw that away cos he has shouted a bit

It sounds like he spends a lot of time with your dc and tbh, at the ages they are, you would have to be a saint to stay completely calm at all times

Just because he is their grandad, it doesn't mean he has to be some kind of saint!!

On the other hand, you could try to speak to him, mess it up spectacularly 'cos he is bound to not get where you are coming from, and wreck all your relationships

YABU, many people would love for their children to have regular contact with their gp's

Agree totally with AnyFucker, particularly the bit about your dad not getting where you are coming from. I think you just have to accept that his behaviour is not quite ideal at times and just not leave him home alone with them (in case he hits one of them). My dad stated that my DS (around 2 at the time) needed a good beating! Needless to say, I won't leave my kids with him, but he can see them in a supervised manner.

I would send a plain card saying "please could we just forget about what happened the other day". You aren't going to change his behaviour IMO but you will make things more difficult by trying.

I agree with anyfucker. You are not being unreasonable to be cautious of leaving him alone with them, but you need to maintain this relationship with him as he's obviously a brilliant grandad the rest of the time. Just continue as you are and supervise, stepping in as necessary.

Just have a frank discussion saying that you love him being a part of the children's lives, but you won't put up with him speaking to them like that.

It sounds as tho' there are a few unresolved issues regarding your own childhood. Have you spoken to anyone about this. The punch in the supermarket is a concern.

I have an intimidating father myself (tho' not 'scary' as you have said), I know how difficult it can be to address them as an adult as you have all the emotions you had as a child come to the surface....

It is never acceptable to tell a child, or anyone else for that matter, that they are stupid. Never.

And telling a child to shut up? Please. You wouldn't do that to an adult.

What lesson would she be teaching her dds if she let her father continue to talk to them in that way? That its okay for men to be verbally abusive?

If he physically abused you as a child, there is every chance he might lose it with your dds.

And he scares you.

If he scares you, imagine how a child might feel. Forced to hide their feelings of embarrassment and shame at being shouted at and belittled, trying to please and placate that adult.

Is history repeating itself?

calm down salome64

are you saying that she should cut her father out of her life completely?

btw, I think the OP is long gone

Sorry if I seemed less than calm. I know its a bit easy just to jump up and down sometimes, but her post just set massive warning bells ringing.

On reflection I think I agree with Ineedmore.

But it is not on at all. If he will not accept those new boundaries (ones which weren't in place when she was a child) then yes, at least until he gets the message.

We are all adults, and can protect ourselves most of the time. Children rely on us. And OP did react appropriately and ask him to stop. The fact that he refused to accept her boundaries is where the issue is. Its not like he said, "oh I'm sorry, you are right" He actively disagreed.

I think she was very brave, actually, standing up to someone who we are scared of, especially is that emotion is mixed up with love and affection, is really hard and I think rather wonderful.

yes, wonderful that she stood up to him, and hopefully nipped this inappropriate behaviour in the bud

she did say he never looks after the dc on his own, so they are under her control and guidance and she should use zero tolerance tactics every time he speaks to them disrespectfully

it is an over-reaction I think, to say "history is repeating itself"

yes, he may have been verbally abusive to the OP as a child, but she can and sounds perfectly prepared to protect her children

it is probably a generational thing

not worth it to cut him out of their lives, unless there is more that has not been disclosed

Yes, you are right. Its just that she started with 'my dad scares me' which is pretty strong stuff. I think I reacted to that.

Maybe he is just a curmudgeonly old bugger, but its never to late to teach an old dog new tricks! If there's more to it, well, that's another thing...

yes, and OP has done a runner

maybe she has coshed him with a cast-iron frying pan

And there's me angsting my heart out...sigh

red wine?

are you offering?

Or am I on it and getting touchy? ;)

I meant

I am offering, except there is only the dregs left in this bottle......

glass of cheap fizz do you? I'm uncharacteristically struggling to down more than a glass...

are you ailing?

cheap fizz will do

in fact, anything will do after the best part of a bottle of Lindemans Bin 500

maybe my liver is giving it one last go to save itself.