Husband still talking to the 'other woman'

[PurpleGlitterMouse]

I posted this first on aibu, but it was suggested I move it here.

I've posted on here a bit, mostly in relation to education threads. This might get a bit long so apologies in advance.

DH and I have been married for 10 years, and together since we were 19 (met at Uni, now 34). We've had our ups and downs and been to relationship counselling a loooong time ago. Things were as you'd expect - both of us working, both building careers, both pretty frazzled at home as a result. Been ttc for ages, but not letting it take over our lives - DH ambivalent, me a bit more than that.

Last year we decided to move abroad through DH's company - we were in a rut work-wise and fancied a change. I gave up my job (teacher, middle management, well respected) and did so gladly. We moved, things were good for the first month. Then my laptop broke.

DH let me borrow his work laptop in the evenings. Whatever the rights and wrongs - and I know, I know - I read his email. Found evidence of a fairly intense 'emotional affair' with a colleague I'd quizzed him about in the UK and been told I was paranoid about. I was furious, he denied it'd gone further (despite them having a work trip together- hmm). I'm ashamed to say it was easier for me to accept what he said and allow us to move on. Things got better. I knew he'd have to liaise with her over work stuff, and accepted it, if not happy with it.
He's been back to the UK a few times since, and I've dealt with it.

Fast forward to now. Tonight his work laptop ois on the floor. I wanted to check when he wwas back in the UK again so I can book a
holiday, and know his passwords, so opened outlook. In his sent box is an email to her which is a back and forth exchange. They have a version of MSN messenger at his work which they use to communicate in the company, and it appears she hung up on him rather abruptly, and he wasn't happy about it.

So. He's still emotionally involved. He's not just talking to her about work. He has a pet name for her which oddly hurts more than anything The only saving grace is that he's whinging to her as much as he does to me [sad grin emoticon] When they were involved before he was talking about how much he loved her, so it feels like a betrayal to see this level of emotion still.

I don't know what to do. I'm furious that he's still involved. I now wonder if it's gone further. If I challenge him he'll turn it all round - he has a way of doing it - so uit's my fault: I'm always cross, we don't have enough sex, I don't pay him enough attention. I'm also in a foreign country with no job.

So far this evening I've copied the email to my laptop and made small talk convincingly with him about a game he's playing. He has no idea I know.

My thoughts for tomorrow are:

1. Sleep on it and see how I feel in the am
2. Email him and the OW to tell them they're busted
3. Move into a hotel
4. Book a ticket back to the UK to a friends (if I go to my parents then I'll have to tell them why, and that'll mean no going back).

Please. What would you do? AM I Being unreasonable? Is it okay for him to be talking to her about how sad he is when she closes down the conversation without telling him?

Sorry. Told you it was long.

Gut reaction is that you are right and go with your plan. Im a bit gung ho, so someone else more sensible will be along i suspect.

What a bloody nightmare - poor you. Your thoughts for tomorrow are good - except a) why can't he move into a hotel? and b) I'm sure there will be a way to go back if you tell your parents. You're not a child, and they'll have to lump it if you decide you want to try again. It might be good to have their support in the meantime - plus, it will presumably buy you more time than staying with a friend will.

And of course you're not being unreasonable - he's betrayed you. He's acted like a shit. I know that doesn't make it easier - but don't let him turn this around so it's somehow about you.

I'd wait until he was back and give him the opportunity, with some prompting, to tell you everything. Whether he still has feelings, if it's gone any further etc.

The fact that he's still lying to you and keeping this from you would pretty much be a deal breaker to me. You gave up a lot to be there with him, yet he can't even give up a few saucy emails/calls now and again for you... says it all really.

Thanks both - much appreciated

Hassled - he won't move into a hotel. At least if I do then I can have more remote contact and more chance to think about it. We live in a rented apartment so easiest all round. Also - re parents - involving them too soon will make it all harder. Better to leave it til later I feel. This is about the only thing I'm sure about!

Thanks again
PGM

PGM my heart goes out to you, I have been in a similar situation with a xp. The advice I would give you is to sleep on it tonight, then give yourself a good talking to when he is at work tomorrow. Think about how happy you are with him and how all this upset has affected you. I would then book into a hotel leave a note explaining where you are and why, and invite him to come and speak to you about what he has been doing but make it plainly obvious that you have done no wrong checking up on him, he is the one in the wrong as you were just following your gut instincts.

If he comes and is ready to talk openly and at least tries to show some remorse than maybe you can both work through this, but remember you have been here before do you trust him enough that it wont happen again? Only you can decide this.

If you really are not happy after talking it all through then call your parents and stay there for a while. I totally understand why you wont tell them now, but I have to say that when I was in your situation once I knew enough was enough telling my parents was a step in the right direction and enabled me to be strong enough to leave him.

Good luck sorry for the long post
Sugarkane

Tel him that you are not happy and you and he are separating. Then between you work out who takes what and separate that way.

Moving away and then trying to sort out issues gets more and more tricky. Sometimes involving lawyers that cost money.

with pet names and declarations of love, it sounds like a full on affair to me.

he's not exactly been truthful so far so i wouldn't trust him to tell the truth now.

i think retreating is definately a good move at this point. don't argue your corner with him... trust that you're in a position where you've been severely wronged and betrayed. tell him you know what's going on and you'll talk to him when you're ready.

take all the time you need. talk talk talk talk talk until you have things clearer in your head.

She is in different country. UK laws might not apply.

I understand what your saying about your parents - when you tell them it means you've decided to break away from him. But it also means you know what they would say and perhaps you are trying to hide from this?

Hope you did go to a hotel. You need some space to think things through with out him getting in there and twisting things. You certainly need to be straight on what you want before you talk to him.

Good luck x

I have been in your position and it is hell. Please do try and tell your parents as they will be able to provide you with support - you may feel it is signaling the end but that is his fault not yours - and he must face up to what he has done to others too if it is to work.

Take some comfort in the fact that he does not want to end the marriage and is being selfish in wanting it all his way.

Good luck and take care of yourself.

Hi again, and thank you all.

I've decided that in the first instance I'm not going to do anything hasty. He doesn't know that I know, iyswim. As far as he's concerned everything is as it was. He's not seeing her every day as they work in different countries, so the only contact they have is apparently through this msn-work thing.

Also, he's clearly getting careless, by not deleting their email exchanges. As soon as I indicate anything is wrong he'll start doing that, and will change his work laptop passwords. Although I don't like spying on him, I'm perfectly prepared to do so in order to gather more evidence. All I have so far is a slightly whingy exchange about how she hung up on him when they were chatting. As I see it, I've got until April when he's next in the UK to find out a bit more about what's going on.

It also explains why he was unreasonably cross about me not being home last week: I'd gone to help a friend prepare for an interview and time ran away with us. When I got in he was cross that I hadn't left a note and kept saying, 'But I didn't know where you were.' When I originally found out about the other woman I threatened to go back to the UK - I now think he must've thought I'd found out about the latest contact and upped and left him.

I'm rambling on now, so I'll draw this to a close. For now I'm going to watch and wait. If I don't find out anything else, I'll confront him with what I have.

This feels like the right thing to do for the moment. Thanks again for all your support.

Nothing useful to say but I really feel for you - DH had (at least) an emotional affair four years ago and it still hurts every day.

Good luck and look after yourself - thinking of you.

Hi PGM,

I just wondered whether some of his behaviour is just a typical part of his character? I worked alongside a man who was very insecure and he behaved like your husband with everybody. He got upset if he was not the centre of everyone's life. He wanted our boss to tell him first about any information from meetings, he got cross with people who couldn't speak to him when he wanted to, and complained if people didn't involve him in things (even if they were really none of his business).

I know that one of the secretaries was rather flattered by his behaviour because she saw it as an indication of his interest in her, rather than just his general insecurity.

This guy used to flatter people outrageously (IMO in a manipulative way) to "get them to like him, and divulge any gossip" [his words at the time].

I have no idea what he was like at home, but I could well imagine him complaining that his wife didn't pay him enough attention, and that he would be upset if he didn't know where she had gone.

I see you have decided not to do anything hasty. You could use the time to think about the relationship you want with him, and also to think about the support you might need from a whole range of people if you do decide that things should come to an end.

notsoclever-

Yes, he admits himself that he enjoys being the centre of attention. I don't think it's as extreme as the guy you talk about - more that he likes making people laugh, having people listen to him etc. He's said a lot of times that he thinks I don't need him like I used to. When he met me I was a messed-up, insecure 19 year old; now I'm a confident 30-something who knows she'd be okay on her own.

It's been exacerbated by us moving abroad. He's working in a different language and he finds it frustrating that he can't express himself with the ease he could in the UK. I think he's surprised by how well I've managed - learning the language, getting out and setting up my own social circle. He's half-jokingly complained that I'll be better than him soon with language skills. Added to this he's been very depressed with SAD. Rationally I can understand that someone who doesn't know all his stories and to whom he can talk about work meets a need in him. I guess it's the ease with which he's lying that gets me - I didn't think he could compartmentalise this well. I genuinely think he thinks he's done nothing/is doing nothing wrong because he hasn't slept with her (afaik).

I almost can't be bothered to have the conversation with him. He'll range from 'you don't love me like you used to' to '[insert x] takes up all your time' to 'i'm such a bad person you should just leave me'. I'm feeling exhausted thinking about it. Then he'll do something stupid that makes me worry that he'll genuinely hurt himself (I know, if he does that's his decision).

Very aware this is hugely one-sided. I am no angel - I have a temper, I can be quite dismissive of his feelings, I drink too much wine (not an alcoholic I hasten to add, just enjoy a glass or several), I allowed my job to take over my life. And I need to lose weight.

Still think waiting is best. If I get any more evidence I'll just hightail it out of here. I have savings in my name and can access our bank accounts from my laptop. I sound very detached I know, but it's the way I cope with things.

PGM

PS - I should add that he does have lots of redeeming features otherwise I wouldn't have been with him so long!

could you arrange a visit to the uk to coincide with his visit??

I know when i had my hunch about what was going on i made it my mission to almost follow him and sure enough he did soon trip up.

If you are going to spy make sure you know what you will do with the evidence. I think that is a mistake i made - i did not really know what was going on and when i did finally find out i sort of went to pieces instead of being strong.

I could. In fact, he suggested I go back with him, but it's a significant birthday for my Mum a couple of weeks later so I'm going back then for a surprise.

If I find out anything more concrete then I'm leaving. I told him I would if it continued, and I know from work that if you aren't prepared to follow up with consequences people don't learn.

It could all be 'innocent' in that he's just engaging in mild flirtation with her, but again, it's the secrecy, the fact he knows how I feel about her etc that I don't like.

do you believe he hasn't slept with her or had any sexual contact?

i ask because it seems to me you are a tad in denial.

you seem very reluctant to confront... is that just your nature?

Yes, I'm about 95% certain he hasn't. Mostly because the opportunity wasn't there before we left the UK, and I'm pretty sure that if he had've then it would've provoked a crisis.

I could, of course, be wrong, hence 95%.

I'm not reluctant to confront - if anything I'm rather impulsive. When I found out back in November I woke him up and ranted at him etc. This time I'm being more measured: I could go and have it out with him, but I think it'll just make the same thing happen - he'll deny, flail out wildly, and then in a few months go back to chatting with her. I'd rather get a bit more info before I do anything.

Look, I know how it sounds. I'd be thinking I was in denial too, but without going into detail we've been here before (actual fault on both sides) and the behaviour was quite different. I genuinely think he sees an 'emotional' affair as being less bad than a 'physical' affair.

As I say, I could be wrong. I want to work out what to do properly though so it's a proper solution not just a knee jerk reaction/quick fix.

i think you've got the right game plan, pgm. what happens if you don't get more info before he leaves for the uk?

hit post too quickly.

do you think flying out to catch him inflagrante is on the cards?

Don't know. Maybe. I'm hoping to have more info before then that'll help me decide. I've got a month or so ...

yes, you do have time. i'm sorry this is happening.

Thank you :-) Sorry if I sounded a bit short - I didn't mean to! I do appreciate all the help and support.

not at all. my posts aren't exactly verbose