Relationship with SIL - know I should be the bigger person but can't quite do it...

[oysterpots]

SIL has been a total PITA for the past, probably year or so. It's a long story but relationship has deteriorated badly mainly due to her ds's behaviour towards my ds and also towards her mother (my mil), and her refusal to acknowledge or do anything about it.

She's withdrawn completely and never contacts me (although my dh, her brother, talks to her fairly frequently), haven't seen her since Christmas despite suggesting a few occasions to meet up, sending her nice, friendly emails.

Anyway, she's pregnant and has started having contractions so baby imminent. I've been asking for progress updates from DH who has suggested I might like to contact her myself.

I know I'm being stubborn but I just can't bring myself to do it, or do it without making a point about how long it's been since we saw each other.

But actually I think it's her bloody turn, which just makes me cross! Am I being ridiculous?

Dont get in touch with her.
She is in labour, so the last thing she will want is to be reminded of your old arguments, even in a round about way.
It is a real shame that it seems you lost a good friendship over the behaviour of a toddler. It must have been hard for both of you.
You've got to wonder though if you staying very close to both your DS and her DS while they were playing couldnt prevent your child ending up covered in cuts and scars, then asking her to stop it completely by watching her DS a little closer was probably upsetting for her as she was likely watching her DS as closely as she could (as you were) and she couldnt stop it any more than you could.

For the majority of the time though my DS wasn't yet walking whereas hers was. So my staying near them came from that as much as anything - making sure he was ok when being run at by his exuberant cousin. I think things are slightly better now that they are both upright and on two legs. Another time my DS was sitting down, her DS came up behind him, put his arms around my DS's neck and scratched both his cheeks. He's still scarred from that now. She didn't even know it had happened as was off somewhere. She definitely wasn't watching her DS at all.

What was I supposed to do in that situation? I think telling someone else's child off is crossing a line so extricated my DS as best I could and took him off, howling (him, not me )

Thanks MrsT - good to hear from the other perspective... she feels like we're judging her, we feel like she doesn't give a shit that our son is hurt. I can see how we're in such a pickle now. I would never want her to shout at her DS - I don't think that solves anything - but explaining/showing 'gentle'/apologising/making fuss for good behaviour etc. would've been better than nothing.

Have sent nice supportive text, and have had nice polite response. Case closed?

Well if she wasn't there then of course it would be your responsibility to pick your ds up before he got scratched. Of course had she been there it would be equally hers. Her son is too young to understand he shouldn't grab his cousin round the neck he needs supervision from the closest adult.

I'm sorry OP, but you sound painfully self-absorbed.

Your SIL goes into labour and you're thinking of bringing up your issues with her parenting? During her labour?

I don't care how important you think your opinions and hurt feelings are, if you can't say anything nice at this time, I suggest you steer clear of the poor woman until her baby is at least 3 months old.

I couldn't be bothered to read most of the thread.

I agree with you. You're not self-absorbed or anything, you've just been treated unpleasantly by someone and don't want more of the same.

Leave it to your dh. She sounds like a real pain. Being in labour doesn't stop her being a pain. She's just a pain. And truthfully, would she even notice or be interested in your concern?

lol at her being a poor woman, just because she's having a baby

Being in labour and having a new baby makes her a vulnerable woman, stuffitlama. Vulnerable psychologically and physically.

I imagine it's a pretty stressful experience, having a toddler perceived to be "difficult" by a clearly disapproving family, and about to give birth to another baby. OP's SIL will need all the support she can muster to get through the first few months, but OP seems bent on starting a family argument! All this while OP's SIL is in the throes of labour, and must surely have a few other, more pressing matters on her mind!

She's a poor woman because she has to be SIL to someone with absolutely no inkling of basic empathy!

Astonished at those of you who are pandering to this egocentric poster...

I read the OP again and a few posts and skim read the rest.

I feel sorry for the OP. She has tried very hard despite unpleasantness and silence. Now she wants to try again and make the most of an opportunity to move ahead, as they will always be connected, but is finding it extremely difficult to do so and has asked for support.

And she has been called a painfully self-absorbed lunatic. with no inkling of basic empathy.

So no, I don't change my mind. I would send congratulations after the baby is born and a present.

Having a baby does not turn you into Mary Mother of God and all the saints combined. Yes she's vulnerable but I don't think the OP is planning to do anything to her except send her a friendly text or not so.. what's your point?

The SIL will be utterly absorbed in what she is doing and quite right too, and won't mind one way or the other if the OP contacts her.

Leave it till later. Be as enthusiastic as the new baby makes you feel. You don't have to make friendly overtures that make you feel like a sucker.

I would be breezy, send a present, visit if allowed but keep it short, keep smiling and then bugger off and wait for a phone call.

No point flogging a dead horse.

The only alternative is the dh probing quietly with his brother about whether there are issues of depression or with the ds, like a diagnosis they may have been shattered by. In which case everything would follow a different path. But the dh should do it.

I don't know what happened with the mother but it sounds awful.

well the reality is even if the child does has something up there's not going to be a diagnosis at this stage. But tbh the behaviour described could be entirely normal toddler behaviour. I remember when ds1 was small utterly normal toddler behaviour left me a complete bag of nerves.

Ds1 needs watching around babies as he has severe learning difficulties. He's not particularly interested in babies but it's not fair on him to not supervise him. If I'm there I'll do it, but if I'm not because I'm on the toilet/making coffee/seeing to another child/feeding the cats/answering the phone then I would expect the mother to look out for her baby. I did the same when I took my babies to friends with older learning disabled kids.

The issues are the same with a toddler really. They're not old enough to know how to behave appropriately around a younger child so they need supervision. With a very young child the issue is supervision not discipline. So if the Mum was off painting her nails or something leaving her child unsupervised then yes it would be annoying, but if she was off making coffee or generally around just not in the immediate vicinity then imo it's entirely reasonable to expect the closest adult to provide the necessary supervision.

I mean in the description of the toddler putting his arms around the baby- well presumably he was showing affection in his own way. He wasn't intentionally trying to hurt- aged 2 he's too young to be doing that with any nastiness. The Mum wasn't there? It's hard to be next to a walking toddler all the time, and presumably as the OP was there she didn't need to be.

And this is for the OP.

I had a difficult son and I think it is sometimes quite hard to imagine how crushing it can be if your own children are more or less easy going. It can make you quite paranoid sometimes: you imagine disapproval where there may be only sympathy, sympathy seems patronising, and you read criticism into what can be quite clumsy attempts at helpfulness. And you do feel like hiding away. Sometimes your own defensiveness looks like or can have symptoms of hostility.

Only you know whether this might be an explanation: it's hard to tell what other "vile" things she has done.

I hope she's not depressed: I hope she has a problem free birth: I hope you become friends again. But don't feel bad if you remain in the background during this tender time for her: things may come good without a huge analysis of what went wrong. Sometimes least said, soonest mended.

I think also if you have a child who is very easy going it's very easy to assume that children who are more boisterous/difficult are that way because of their parenting.

Been there. Had ds1 who was the most relaxed easy going happy smiley child ever (and yes I did look with horror at perfectly normal toddler behaviour, and yes of course ds1 was the way he was and so well behaved because of my superior parenting). Ds1 was followed by equally easy going ds2.

The ds1 became severely autistic and out came the behaviours, we draw crowds when we go out now (he's 9 and non-verbal) and then ds3 came along- totally 'normal' but does a good line in challenging and I found that my early smugness was misplaced.

The irony of course is that I'm a much better parent now than I was in the easy going years but you don't work out/learn all the strategies overnight.

TBH, if given your relationship history, you called me when I was in labour I would tell you to get lost. Wait until she has had the baby, send flowers and a card and say that you regret what has happened and you want to make it up. Now is not about you or you/her. Let her have her baby in peace.

Work out what you are still mad about her with.

Decide if you want to be friendly and close again.

If so, be the bigger person and start afresh.

If not, don't do anything and keep your seething to yourself.

Life it too bloody short for arguments that really aren't that important in the great scheme of things. Yes, you are upset your child has been hurt but she obviously feels she needs to do what the HV has advised and you can't hold that against her.

Grudges are for when you are a kid. If you can't let it go, stay away from her. You will achieve nothing by having it out with her. You might feel better for a short while but you will upset her when she is emotional with the baby and for no good reason quite probably.

Mrs Turnip I agree with the first sentence of your post, most certainly: I have also had both kinds. It is very, very hard to put yourself in the other shoes.

oh I missed the bit about the HV. I presume the HV has decided the behaviour is attention seeking, which it might well be if it only happens when his cousin is around, and yes the quickest most effective way to stop attention seeking behaviour is to ignore it totally and utterly. He's a little young for time out but getting to the age where it will start to become effective if she decides to use it so perhaps you'll find it easier to see her again if behaviours result in a consequence.

We have had the same problem with ds1. He pinches (adults). He does it for lots of reasons, but one big one is to get a reaction. He loves a bit of shrieking and shouting, or to enter a fixed predictable routine (time out). So it is essential (beyond essential actually) that there is NO response to pinching. As it's adults he goes for this should be achievable. Yes it hurts but as adult we should have some control over our responses. 99% of people are great. Certain family members are not. And despite me repeatedly explaining to them how it works they still shriek, shout and tell ds1 off. Aged 9 he can deliver a pretty big pinch. The 99% of people who give no response he very rarely bothers (if at all) and doesn't do it to get a reaction. The ones he knows will react leave black and blue. And it is incredibly stressful for everyone when they visit.

If SIL has taken advice from the HV and is trying to implement it then its essential really that those around him join in. Ignore the behaviour (sometimes turning the child away slightly so there's no visual contact and a message given that they're being ignored), no shouting, lots of attention to the child who is hurt is probably an effective response. Almost certainly more effective than trying to use discipline on a child too young to understand why they're in time out, or a child too young to understand that attention for bad behaviour isn't as rewarding as attention for good behaviour.

When DS was 1-2, I had a friend with a similarly aged daughter who was very difficult - hitting/scratching etc. I stuck with her. When DS was 3, he had severe language delay and was aloof - she stuck with me. With a family member or good friend, it's best to take the long term view in these matters.

I agree with TC too.

In fact the only thing I really hated was the way the OP was jumped on. I just wanted to give her some support.

Thanks stuffitllama, I really appreciate some support (it's what I came here for). It's been thin on the ground!

I don't think I'm a totally un-self-aware person - I do try to improve myself and think about the consequences of my actions, which is why I posted here in an honest way in the first place. In some ways this thread has been really cathartic - I'm not sure I realised quite how upset I was at the demise of our friendship until I started writing about it.

Anyway, SIL had her new baby DS this morning and all doing well. Hoping to see them soon. And to put this behind us and start afresh, I do miss her

So thanks for your perspectives everyone, its been helpful.

PS HV is also the woman who suggested Wotsits as a first finger food for a 6mo baby so no-one has a great deal of faith in her judgment

Well done for taking other views on board and sending her a nice text, oysterpots. Hope the relationship improves, sometimes it's those little moments when you make the right, kind decision that can turn things around. At the moment it sounds like she needs support, but one day it might be the other way round.

Agreed with all stuffitllama's posts. Hope things get better between you both now.