Some advice needed about my PIL.

[FeelSickWIthWorry]

I have name changed as DH knows my normal posting name.

I will try to keep this short, but I have a lot of Q's and worries etc going around in my head so it may get long.

BACKGROUND
Met DH at college 14 years ago, we were friends for a couple of years before getting together.
When we met he was going through rough time at home with his mum and step dad.
His step dad beat his mum regularly and DH had moved out at the time we met. He talked to me about it and told me what had happened on the particular incident that he left home.

Step dad beating mum, DH in his room can not take any more so goes to break it up. Step dad beats DH, his mum does nothing. DH leaves and goes to stay with a very good friend.

DH tells me how his step dad has always beaten his mum for as long as he can remember.

I am obviously shocked as then I was very naive and honestly had never encountered this kind of family dynamic.

Fast forward 2 years, DH and I get together, I finally meet his mum (step dad was at work) His mum is lovely and we got on and still get on wonderfully.

Meet his step dad a couple of months later and take an instant dislike to him. I fully understand that I would have had a pre- disposition to dislike him after what I have heard from DH. I do however put my feelings aside and am polite to him, with general chit chat.

The things I disliked then and still do about DH's step dad can be listed
He is verbally, mentally, emotionally abusive to people who he feels are lower than him in the 'pecking order'.
MIL just takes it and I HATE that fact with a passion, but it is nothing to do with me so I just keep my distance.

FAST FORWARD 10 YEARS

Dh and I have been married for 5 years we have 15mo DD and an LO on the way.
I don't know if S-FIL is still physically abusive towards MIL but I know he is still verbally, mentally and emotionally abusive towards her, DH and myself.

I am angry that I have let him be so bad towards me for so long and it all came to a head last fathers day. I wont go into details but I no longer have any dealings with him.

I basically gave DH an ultimatum and said that I will no longer tolerate S-FIL and that if DH asks me to for his sake (as he has done numerous times in the past) Then I will be leaving.

Things are lovely now for me, I no longer feel worried and anxious as I don't go to their house and I take myself off when S-FIL comes here.

My problem being, MIL and DH have been dropping hints around me about MIL and S-FIL looking after DD and having her overnight. I just cannot do it. I cannot let DD or this LO when older go there without DH or I to be subjected to that man. MIL is scared of him, she didn't even stop S-FIL beating her own child back and blue, she does as she is told by S-FIL and cannot see that she is in an abusive relationship.

Even id S-FIL isn't being physically abusive anymore (which I doubt big time but cannot prove) he certainly is verbally and I do not want my DC exposed to that without DH being there. DH would remove them and say something to S-FIL, MIL wont.

I am happy for MIL to come here to sit with DD as I know S-FIl probably wont as it is not on his territory IYSWIM. But i am not happy at the thought of DD going to their house on her own, ever if I am quite truthful. DD hasn't even stayed out overnight at my mums yet.

If you were to meet S-FIL you would think he was the nicest bloke, but there is something you would not be able to quite put your finger on.

I just don't know what to do.

DH thinks that S-FIL is not beating MIL anymore and is totally taken in by this fake persona that S-FIL seems to have taken on.

I am afraid I am not willing to put my child/children in S-FILS care without DH or I being present. I don't trust him or MIL.

I truly accept that I am probably being a bit unreasonable but TBH I don't care I would rather be unreasonable and my child/children be safe.

I don't think it's about one parent trumping the other; yes, it's 50/50. But if one parent feels really strongly about something then the other needs to respect that. When it comes to child safety, you must err on the side of caution.

Oh and good luck with your mum. Well done for contacting her. It is a sign of strength that you have done so - not weakness, you know, so don't feel you're a failure or whatever.

I just know that this is gonna cause a big divide between DH and I. I am so scared that it could mean the end for us. DH can be very stubborn and will see it as me trying to score points IYSWIM.

I am not, I honestly, truly have DD's best interests at heart.

You are not unreasonable. At all.

You are doing the right thing by keeping your child away from this man and don't let anyone tell you different.

She won't suffer from not having a relationship with him but she might if she does.

I feel it OrmIrian, DH will say it. I know I have to be strong and sit him down and calmly explain to him how I feel about the situation and what I feel is acceptable. He will not like it but I am afraid it is though I am NOT willing to back down.

This is horrible, no you absolutely cannot countenance letting your DD stay with SFIL in the same house.

As has been said before your MIL's presence offers no protection from physical violence towards children as she was unable to stop his violence towards your DH. For me that's it, your job as a mother is to protect your DD from unreasonable harm and so she can't go there alone.

Make it clear to your DH that your MIL is welcome to stay at yours to babysit overnight instead, and maybe help DH and MIL come up with excuses to SFIL (like the children being more settled in their own home) to keep the peace.

Longer term, I'd also be working on MIL to build the confidence to leave him.

Thats what DH say's that S-FIL has mellowed, but the abuse is never discussed. DH and MIL have never had an apology from him, neither have I, but TBH I don't want one.

He may not be physically abusive anymore, I have no way of telling, but I do know he is mentally, verbally and emotionally abusive as I witness it every time I see him. Which isn't for long as I take myself off upstairs with a good book when he is here.

DH only sees what is on top, he doesn't see or hear the underlying tones when it come to S-FIL.

Madrush, she will never leave, she is in denial herself.

Just before Xmas when MIL asked me if S-FIl was welcome here her and DH were also talking about S-FIL's first marriage and his children from that marriage and MIL said something which chilled me to the bone. She said, 'I don't care what DH (S-FIL) did to their mum they wont remember it now'.

DH remembers it and they are the same age. MIL is in denial.

I need to talk to someone in RL, someone impartial. I have spoken to my mum about it and she says the same as all of you but I need to talk to someone who isn't in the family/friends circle IYSWIM.

Could someone point me in the right direction please. Thank you

Don't do it, remind your DH what an arsehole his step dad was and that you cannot see that he has changed. You need to tell him that you will not allow your DC to stay with them, especially as there will be no-one there to protect them should he get nasty. YANBU at all, the safety of your DC comes before peoples feelings.
Sick I know exactly what you mean with overprotectiveness, my DS is 7 months old and my parents are constantly saying go and have a night out etc, etc. I think they thought that we would be leaving him with them and have him stay overnight all the time, they couldn't have been more wrong. Don't let anyone pressure you into leaving your DC overnight if you don't feel comfortable just cos the rest of your family palm their kids off all the time, let them get on with on it.

Exactly Wigglesworth, my mum would have DD all the time if I took her up on all of her offers. Nice of her I know but it is the way the rest of my family make but that I am some how emotionally harming DD b y not letting her stay overnight.

There is just no need for her too, I think when she is older and DH and I want a weekend away then I will take MY mum up on her offer but deffo not MIL.

Samaritans?

Useful links here

Thanks NAB.

Thanks madrush.

I hope you find someone to talk to - Women's Aid may be ableto help themselves or point you in the right direction? In the meantime here's a book that helped someone close to me see what was going on with her particular verbally and abusive partner - Lundy Bancroft. Obviously you are not the one in the abusive relationship but it sheds a lot of light on what goes on there, which gives you the understanding to decide how to deal with it at the level it affects you.

Don't let the toxic presence of your SFIL harm your own marriage - it is amazing the grief these people cause because nobody stands up to them. And the reason people don't stand up to them is because they are scared of the fallout...My family was frequently in turmoil as the result of the behaviour of one - now thankfully off the scene.

Thanks Katisha, I think TBh that if Dh will not take my worries seriously then there is nothing else for me to do other than to leave. I will not and can not be with a man who would be complicit at allowing his DC to be around a person like S-FIL and would be willing to expose them to that kind of environment.

I don't want it to happen that way as I love my DH to bits and he is a wonderful person in so many ways, he is just blind to this situation. I cannot let that happen, I will always be the one who is there to keep my DD and this LO safe, regardless.

I don't understand why your husband would let this issue destroy your marriage. What's in it for him? What difference does it make to him whether or not your kids stay overnight with his parents? It's very strange. I could understand it if his stepdad had never been abusive and he thought you were just favouring your relatives but surely he can see your reasoning. Why is the issue of your kids staying with his parents overnight so important? It's not an issue that was discussed in either of my marriages, but then the parents always lived some distance away so if we stayed we stayed as a family.
Do you have bigger problems in your relationship that such a minor thing might destroy your marriage? I do find it odd.

You are quite right and must NOT back down about this. Dh is being quite weird contemplating putting his children at risk like this - he's the one who is out of line here, not you.

Could you sit down and say to him, look, your primary responsibility as parents is to keep your children safe from harm - and leaving your dd overnight with a violent man who abuses women and children is not keeping her safe? Or would he consider family therapy?

Be very cautious about leaving though, check out the legal situation wrt access - would you have LESS control about whether dd sees them on her own? Because dh could just take her over there during a contact visit and you might not be able to stop that. Worth discussing this with one of the organisations Madrush linked to/a lawyer (if you are seriously thinking about leaving you should see a lawyer anyway).

Hi there FSWW.

My stepfather was physically abusive and a similar "mellowing" apparently happened with him as he got older. The the emotional abuses definitely still continued, but the physical side, at least externally, (and how can you ever really know for sure?) seemed to end.

I think it was most likely 'cos the nasty bastard was afraid of another heart attack, not because he'd actually changed as a person.

I remember my mum and him chatting to me in a pub about how dreadful it was that their cleaner and her partner were in a domestically violent relationship! As if all was hunky dory in their relationship, and I'd never seen him pin her against the wall by her neck and strangle her unconscious whilst pregnant. It's like, seriously, do you think I'd forget that?

Seems your MIL is in a similar kind of, "that happened when they were little, they wont remember it" denial. It's common for kids of DV situations, like your DH, to collude in these delusions. It's too upsetting and emotionally turbulent. It's a survival strategy when you live with a DV man-toddler, you will learn not to make a fuss and draw attention.

Honestly, I'd recommend talking to Women's Aid about getting some counselling for your DH. He is a child of domestic violence, and until he acknowledges and deals with that he will never accept your objections (which are absolutely right and reasonable), and most importantly, he will never be psychologically healthy.

Good luck hun!

YANBU. I would have nothing to with this vile man, and I certainly wouldn't allow him any access at all to my children.

Abuse also thrives on secrecy; this is also how it can go on for so long without any challenge.

I don't think your DH has even started to begin to come to terms with what he saw as a child. He is as dizietsma in her excellent post puts it, "a child of domestic violence". Her words are ones that your H should pay close attention to.

Your H may well blame himself for not being more able to protect his mother from her brute of a H; in turn she has not found it within herself to leave him. Not at all surprosed to read of her denials. Its easier to be in denial than to actually face the truth and reality.

Would your H consider counselling?. He needs to address all this turmoil within him otherwise it will continue to eat away at you all.

There are no other problems in mine and DH's relationship. I think he forgets what it was like for him as a child, and what it was like for his mum.

The reason I think about leaving is because at the minute I can see DH not agreeing with me and he will push this idea of DD going to PIL's for either baby sitting or staying over. I cannot be with a man, that no matter what has happened to him as a child would not want to do everything he can to keep his DC safe.

Dh had a very close reationship with his grandma and he wants DD to have that same kind of relationship with DD. It is very understandable that he wants that for DD and this LO. But he seems to forget that his grandma didn't have a person in her home that would be a saftey threat to him and his cousins.

I have popped in to the CAB (I am in the library now) to make an appointment to get some advice and I think I may hold off talking to DH about this until I have spoken to someone about my options if the worst does happen, i.e Dh and I slplit.

I don't want to slpit from DH, I want my DD and this LO once it is born to have a mum and dad together but I am not willing to let that be at the expense of their safety.

DH wont see this as me bing protective of DD, he will see this as me trying to score points and keep MIL and S-FIL away from DD. I am not trying to do that I have DD's saftey and wellbeing as the first thing on my mind. He is not able to see that S-FIL is still a threat, even if not physically but mentall, verbally and emotinally S-FIL still is a threat.

I am not willing to put my DD in any sort of dangers way even if that danger is small, I just cannot contemplate doing that. DH on the other hand would not want to do it, but he will be too scared of upsetting MIl and S-FIL, whereas I don't care who I upset.

I think you are doing exactly the right things, Feelsick. At some point your dh is going to have to address the effects of growing up with DV but clearly he's not thinking straight about this right now.