Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Perspective please. Failing relationship, sex issues, arguments....

22 replies

dippyrascal · 04/02/2009 17:07

Sorry this very long ? not sure how to explain the situation without putting it into context. So, as succinctly as I can ? my DP and I have had quite a troubled relationship over the 9 years we?ve been together. We have always argued, at times it?s got pretty nasty, and at times I?ve been frankly baffled as to why we?re actually arguing in the first place. I?ve had many tearful phone conversations with friends asking ?what have I done ??, ?am I right or wrong here?? When I first moved in with him he didn?t speak to me for a week, didn?t like me talking to friends, if we were out with friends and I didn?t stay by his side or spent too much time with someone else I?d get told I was ignorant and selfish. One Christmas Day I remember leaving the flat in tears when an argument about how to cook the carrots turned nasty. Why stay? He could also be very loving and caring in a similarly intense manner and he was (is) also very good at arguing and making me feel I must take part of the blame. I often feel tongue-tied when speaking too him as often what I say I feel is misconstrued and thrown back at me. He also takes things very literally which means I have to really search to find the exactly the right words to explain myself and I find that quite hard at the best of times!

Anyway ? DD now 5 was an accident ? I really didn?t think I wanted children with him and I took the morning after pill when I found out I was pregnant, it didn?t work. He was delighted, loves kids and was thrilled to be having a family with me ? as was I when I?d got used to the idea. He was very supportive whilst I was pregnant and after the birth but when I went back to work at 6 months I got quite depressed and found managing work ? 4 days a week ? and my new responsibilities as a mum very hard. I did so want to be at home with DD but found that hard too! DP couldn?t help with the dropping off at nursery/picking up, he was often at the pub after work, coming home late. I did all the food shopping, cooking, cleaning and looking after DD. He would get annoyed back at me if I got cross with him for not being more supportive/responsible and he refused to acknowledge I was depressed. At weekends if I arranged get-togethers with friends he refused to go, saying it was his time off, when friends had us round to dinner he?d turn up late. It was a nightmare but I was low and felt incapable of doing anything about it. I got pregnant with DS and sensing part of the trouble was that he was in a job which was very lad drinking culture and I wasn?t happy at mine we discussed moving and starting afresh somewhere else which we did.

DS?s birth shortly after the move was a nightmare, I nearly died and it did bring us closer for a while. We both eventually got new jobs, both full-time and bought a house in our new area and I have made some good friends and found my feet. His new job is very 9-5, no more down the pub, he helps much more with household stuff and childcare and the balance there is much better. The relationship is still hard, at times constant arguments, he can be sullen to be around and I have been accused of being boring, uncaring and selfish. Things reached a head earlier last year and I sought counselling at relate which he came to on and off. It helped me though I?m not sure it was that great. I wasn?t entirely sure about the counsellor and she was often off sick. A psychiatrist friend of mine recommended a private counsellor but the cost was inhibitive so I continued at relate and just getting things off my chest, talking about it was a big help. After our first session together DP was very angry ? said I?d made him look a fool, that I was making things up to make me look better, was generally very hostile. He did go back again, although sporadically and I did see a change with him. However, he showed no real commitment to it, would turn up late to appointments and I didn?t think that we could go anywhere with it so I told the counsellor we wouldn?t go any more. I told him this and said that if he was still interested he could still go but he was pretty pissed off that I?d cut it off without discussing it with him. We had though discussed the whole counselling thing several times and he showed little interest in it.

One of the things the results of my first relate appointment was that I decided that I was going not to have sex with him any more unless I wanted to. This sounds very cold-hearted but when the counsellor asked me why I was still having sex when I didn?t want to it was a lightbulb moment and a huge relief to me, somehow I had it in my head that I had to. After the years of arguments and tension I really didn?t want to have sex with him but I thought no sex would make the relationship worse and I did want to retain a ?closeness?. 2 young kids, a full time job, quite severe financial difficulties didn?t help and I found I just didn?t have a libido ? which I?d told him ? but I did make an effort to maintain a sex life. Unfortunately as time went on I found that I never actually did want to have sex and in fact him touching me made me tense and angry. In my late teens I?d had a relationship for 4 years which was physically and sexually abusive and whilst I hadn?t thought it had affected me it obviously had, and found myself thinking about it again, partic as the counsellor had said that some of DPs behaviour was actually abusive.

Anyway ? the long and short of it is we have not had sex for 6 months, some closeness but I still can?t bear to be touched. For him it is very difficult, we?ve talked about it and I explained I hadn?t actually wanted sex for a long time ? as he knew ? but that I?d made the effort for the reasons I gave above. He?s fixated now on my having sexing with him when I didn?t want to which he says is an incredibly hurtful thing for me to say to him. I?ve said that our relationship is exhausting, too many arguments, ups and downs, and that I need some stability in a loving, caring relationship before I can channel my energies into building up my libido. He tries really hard for a week or so and we get on great but then he starts to withdraw, get sullen, indirectly have a go at me for not having sex and the whole thing comes to a head again. 2 nights ago he asked me what I was going to do about it, it was my problem, I was the one who?d told him something very hurtful (this from the man who told me once I was the most boring person he?d ever slept with, that I was crap in bed!), that I didn?t find him attractive ? basically that it was my problem and if the relationship was to move on I had to do something about it. Last night he said the same and added that it was just for financial reasons that he was still with me. I explained that I didn?t know what to do ? I really don?t ? that his behaviour wasn?t helping ? he replied he?s just trying to discuss it rather than avoid it like me. He says he?s sad and hurt and resigned to a life without sex. And I find myself feeling sorry for him ? but I still don?t want to have sex with him. I feel like we?ve talked about this so much, that he?s choosing to hear what he wants (or doesn?t want) to hear from all I say and also, after all the problems we?ve had and continue to have surely I can?t be unusual in not wanting sex. I really feel like I can?t make myself do it any more. I did suggest when we were having counselling we have sex therapy also but he dismissed it saying that there were other issues in our relationship which needed to be sorted out first. Which surely is my whole point - so how come now my refusing seems to be the big issue?

Sorry ? said it was long. I guess I?m just wanting another perspective ? or some perspective on this. I think our relationship is doomed and ultimately it?s better for us and the children if we split but practically it?s difficult, house sale, not enough for money to go around 2 households etc. I have started up a small business as well as my day job to try and bring in extra cash so I could afford the house on my own. Or ? am I being the selfish, uncaring person he thinks I am and should I make the effort as sex is so important to him as a means of feeling loved and appreciated?

OP posts:
DarrellRivers · 04/02/2009 17:19

I couldn't let your post go unanswered but I'm not sure what to suggest.
I think if you think there is more distance in your realtionship then the 2 of you need to start talking, but how that is going to happen i don't know as your DP doesn't sound keen on talking
You have 2 children together so that is something to build on, but I suppose at some point it becomes difficult continuing.
It sounds a very difficult situation

NotQuiteCockney · 04/02/2009 18:11

I think it might make sense for you try to get some counselling on your own to try to untangle all this. I did some digging into inexpensive counselling options for a friend, a while back - Mind offer good counselling at low cost, I'm told.

MadameCastafiore · 04/02/2009 18:19

Sorry but he sounds like a controlling bully and if he were my DH he would not be getting any sex either!

AnyFuckerForAValentine · 04/02/2009 18:29

You don't sound as if you like each other very much.

You don't want to have sex with him and it sounds like he wants sex with just anybody and you are convenient (even if you are boring in bed-his words !!! yes, on what planet did he think that comment would make you want to shag his arse off ??? )

He sounds very equivocal about putting in any effort to rebuild your relationship, and you cannot do it all on your own.

Have you asked him if he really wants you to stay together, or if he thinks it might be better to set you both free to find more loving relationships with somebody else?

I see that the practicalities will be difficult but if you are both unhappy, could you amicably decide to see what your options are? Or is "amicable" not in his vocabulary?

I presume he is a good father. Can you sit down, without the dc around and plan a future for them whether that means you stay together or decide to separate?

So sorry, this is never going to be an easy one, but it seems clear you cannot go on like this, for both your sakes.

hopefullandfree · 04/02/2009 19:29

Its no wonder you dont want to have sex with him when he tells you your crap in bed and hes only there for financial reasons!
My ex said exactly the same to me, i was crap in bed, he was only here for the kids, but he would whine that he needed physical affection.
The fact he stank / had bad breath / premature ejaculation was nothing to do with it of course. Concerned me greatly that he was willing to have sex with me knowing i didnt want to.
Perhaps get some more counselling to be sure you want to end things and take it from there.
Why WOULD you want to have sex with him when he is saying this stuff to you.

lilac21 · 04/02/2009 21:50

I might be completely off the wall here, but I wonder if your DH has Aspergers syndrome, as it might explain some of his behaviour and the difficulties you are having in communicating with him. I don't have any experience of this in adults but work with autistic children and some of what you have described made sense to me.

Sorry for throwing that at you if I'm completely wrong.

lessonlearned · 04/02/2009 21:53

Sorry, it sounds like this man is a toxic self obsessed nob TBH. What a selfish manipulative controlling bully!
He doesn't sound sad to me at all - it actually sounds like this relationship is what he has made it.
I'm so so sorry you find yourself in this place - between a rock and a hard place.
Please listen when your counsellor tells you this is abuse.

dippyrascal · 04/02/2009 22:36

Firstly, thanks a lot for your replies. Looking back at my post it was a lot to plough through, particularly with all those annoying questions marks. I will be less slapdash with my punctuation this time.

When I feel at saturation point like I am now I get stuck and confused so just offloading is a relief and your replies have been helpful. NotQuite I will look into what Mind offer a the counselling it can feel like wading through treacle. Going to Relate as a couple I ended up feeling like we were going round in circles, a rowing boat with one oar working really hard and the other just dipping into the water occasionally. Maybe if I see it just as something for me I'll be able to move forward.

Darrell, the kids are my whole reason for working at this though at what point the scales tip and staying together causes more damage to them than us splitting I don't know. I want them to grow up in a home with love and laughter, we try not show it to the kids but they must pick some of it up. AnyFucker, great name btw made me laugh, he is a good, committed dad, the kids are his world. What you said about not liking each other hit home. We talk about love in relationships but rarely about it you actually like that person. And no, a lot of the time I don't like him. I find him childish, insecure, frustrating. But in the good times he is likeable, fun and caring. I minimise a lot of the bad by putting it down to his being very insecure and that makes me feel sorry for him and worry about him. I believe he really wants to be happy with me but is fearful of being controlled and this no sex thing is fuelling his paranoia of rejection and not being good enough. To be honest I doubt even if I gave him all the attention, respect, physical affection he wants he still wouldn't be happy.

And yes, Madame and Hopeful, he is controlling and a bully and whilst he is starting to realise that his actions and words have an effect he is a long way from developing any empathy. I have also upset him greatly by telling him he could take more care of his appearance. It felt mean partic as he in always telling me he finds me beautiful and attractive but then he hasn't visited a dentist in the 9 years we've been together and as he's a smoker I'll leave the state of his teeth to your imaginations.

So ta very much again everyone, it has helped me think it through. Still don't know what the hell I'm going to do but I feel a bit less lost. Hopeful, how did you manage to let go in the end?

OP posts:
dippyrascal · 04/02/2009 22:46

Lessonlearned, I know if I heard the same from a friend or read it here I would think exactly the same as you and I wish I could be more objective about it. It makes me wonder how on earth I got here in the first place, its a kind of drip, drip effect until suddenly you are in over your head. Without the kids I would definitely leave. As I had experienced abuse before albeit in a more obvious way I thought I'd know the signs so getting my head around this has been hard. I still can't help feeling sorry for him though. When that goes I guess I will go.
Lilac, I will look into Asbergers, I dont want to excuse his behaviour but Im interested to see what the similarities in behaviour are.

OP posts:
lilac21 · 04/02/2009 22:54

Dippy, you're giving me clues - you've said he takes things very literally, lacks empathy and is intense in his relationships, these are all traits I have observed in, and know to be characteristic of, people with Aspergers. Try the National Autistic Society website. It's not uncommon for this to be undiagnosed until people are adults, and only 1 in 10 people with autism are female.

AnyFuckerForAShiteSoppyCard · 04/02/2009 22:56

thanks for coming back dippy

it must be very hard 'cos it almost seems like he wants to do better but somehow he just can't do it (who knows why?)

feeling sorry for him is not good enough though, it will just eat away at any respect you have left for him

he needs to show you by his actions that he will fight for your relationship, or it is going to slip away

CJCregg · 04/02/2009 23:03

Hi Dippy, hope you don't mind my butting in but I was in a very similar relationship. I kept feeling guilty and sorry for my now XDH, because he was very clever at manipulating things so they were 'my fault'. The 'craving physical affection' really struck a chord with me - he would say the same to me, after having put me down in various ways such as telling me I was crap in bed. Eventually came to the conclusion that the DCs would be happier in a house that wasn't always on the brink of a row, but was too scared of the reaction from DH to do anything about it for a long time.

It sounds as though your DH is very similar - childish, controlling, needy. I know exactly what you mean about the drip drip effect, and it isn't always helpful having friends tell you not to put up with it because somehow this adds to your sense of guilt - does that make sense?

All I can say is I really feel for you and will keep an eye on this thread. If I can be of any help, let me know.

Swedes · 04/02/2009 23:09

I don't think anyone should have sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with, EVER.

lessonlearned · 04/02/2009 23:47

Feeling sorry for, imagining I could 'save', hoping I would someday 'fix' him.....all the things that kept me (and DCs) from a better life for 17 years. The last 6 years spent trying to get away after he left us!
Better to let go of these red herrings. I now realise it was my arrogance that led me to imagine he was the poor unfortunate in our relationship!
Oh how he laughed!

dippyrascal · 04/02/2009 23:55

Cheers anyfucker. Who knows why indeed? I shall look into the aspergers lilac in case it may offer up some insight. Having spoken to my sister in law recently it seems his brothers are very similar. She lays a lot of the blame for it as his mum's feet as she's known her for 20 odd years. Very controlling herself, strict, outright favouritism of certain kids, there are 5 of them.

swedes, it isn't right is it, having sex with someone when you don't want to but then sometimes I'll read, say on mumsnet that for the sake of the relationship you should make the effort, that for someone for whom sex is important going without is very difficult and that the more you do it the more you want it. But I guess that is for relationships which dont have quite so much underlying crap as mine. So, yes I agree, I should stick to my guns wait until, if ever, i am ready and tbh even when we were having sex we had the same problems though it wasnt all blamed on the lack of sex.

CJ. It sounds very similar. How did you go and how is your relationship now? Did he descend into bitter decline, bury his head in a bottle? Are you both happier now, are the kids ok with it, what age were they when you split up? Sorry for all the questions, I realise despite the similarities we are all different but I'm trying to envisage a brighter future and I have to shake this feeling of responsibility I have for him.

OP posts:
solidgoldbullet4myvalentine · 04/02/2009 23:55

Whether or not he has Aspergers, he sounds like a selfish tosspot. You know, being single is great. It's much, much better than being in a relationship with someone you have to pander to and tiptoe round all the time. He doesn;t help you in the house, he sabotages your social life, and then he bleats for sex. I'd have shot him by now if he was my partner.
Try another Relate session, by yourself, about learning ways to make a break-up as amicable as possible. (Remember, even the counsellor thought he was bullying and manipulating you, and that he shouldn;t be pressuring you to have sex you don't want).
When you don't have to live with him, skivvy for him, or let him have sex on your body, you may be able to appreciate his good-dad qualities and forge a more amicable non-couple relationship, but really - don't waste any more of your life indulging his selfishness.

dippyrascal · 05/02/2009 00:03

lessonlearned - you sound like my counsellor and you're right. Accepting I couldn't fix it was a big thing, I'm still trying to do it as you can see and slipping I think through not having the counselling. Maybe he likes being a miserable moody sod.

OP posts:
dippyrascal · 05/02/2009 00:08

solidgold, thank god he wasn't your DP as you'd be in Holloway and unable to give such sound advice on mumsnet. I assume. I expect prisoners probably have computers too. Thanks for making me laugh.

OP posts:
CJCregg · 05/02/2009 00:09

Dippy, it wasn't easy at all but it was worth it. Yes, bitter decline, yes, head in bottle, atmosphere you could carve into Mount Rushmore, manipulation, you name it! But - BUT - we're onto a new stage now, living apart but nearby, and I am better able to appreciate that he is devoted to the DCs (5 and 3) and as long as we're able to put our differences second and the DCs first, we can get through it and are sometimes even friends! DCs a bit troubled but we keep a regular routine and reassure them that we both love them. They love it when we're able to (occasionally) do things together.

Know what you mean about feeling responsible for him. I still feel guilty, particularly because he's such a devoted father. But he wasn't a good husband, and in all the time we were splitting up he didn't once behave in a way that made me think I might have made the wrong decision. You are NOT responsible for him, he is an adult and once you are able to break out of that cycle of reacting to his neediness and manipulation, you will gradually get stronger and be able to detach. I did, and I never thought it would be possible.

Oh, and by the way, he still tried to have sex with me for several weeks after I'd told him I wanted to split! The man has no boundaries ...

Take care of yourself. Talk to friends who you trust and who believe in you, love you for who you are.

dippyrascal · 05/02/2009 00:19

WOW

Mumsnet is fab. I'm sure I've grown an inch taller in the last few hours. Thanks everyone, energy levels going up despite the midnight hour, resolve strengthening again, head clearing. Had a chat with him earlier saying I do know how hard it is for him, its hard for me too and I don't find his behaviour helpful. Not quite the bullet solidgold would have fired but considering the mess I was in earlier today pretty direct for me. Amazingly didn't end in a row.

OP posts:
dippyrascal · 05/02/2009 00:25

Oh and Cj, thanks, glad its worked out for you, good point about the behaviour during the split validating your decision, I guess they're not gonna roll over and say ok, cool, lets split and being nice and turning into the man of your dreams would be unbearable and mess it all up. Your kids are the same age as mine and I've been thinking recently better while they're still young. Off to bed, much to think about...

OP posts:
CJCregg · 05/02/2009 00:31

Ah, but if they had any sense, they would - it would totally fuck with our heads!

Keep posting, sleep well.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page