Are we giving up too easily?

[dustbuster]

My partner and I have have a 10 month old DD. Over Christmas we decided to separate. It is completely mutual - we have both been very unhappy with the relationship since DD was born. We have tried hard since the summer to improve things, and although we have found some practical solutions to things like housework, it has to be said that the emotional side of things has not improved at all.

Since we came to this decision I have felt quite relieved - sad for DD, and a bit anxious about the practical arrangements - but not mourning for the relationship. He says he feels the same way.

We are keen to remain friendly, and live close by, and he will share care of DD.

My feeling is that it is better to separate now, firstly because DD will be able to adapt to the new arrangements better at such a young age (?), and secondly because if we stay together I think we will really start to detest each other.

I know a lot of people will think this is just a post-baby blip and that we should try Relate etc. But I honestly believe that it is a lot more than that - in a nutshell, we don't really have that much in common, despite the fact that we get on well intellectually. So there are a LOT of conflicts about things we can't agree on, and I have come to feel like I can't live my life without him disapproving of me.

Any thoughts? Has anyone felt like their relationship was completely and utterly dead in the water and experienced it coming back to life?

ime the trouble may well begin when one of you meets another partner. Not necessarily from a jealousy point of view, but if your child resides with you for instance and you begin to cohabit with someone new IYSWIM.
If you do go to Relate you could always look at this issue too. Kind of like a post-nup

Yes, I feel like we have a really good shot at an amicable separation now, and I don't really want to jepordise (sp?) that by plugging away at a relationship that neither of us seems to want any more.

Monkeytrousers and Astarte, great minds think alike!

This is very true and one of the reasons I want us to disentangle our financial affairs. E.g. we discussed keeping the house in jt names with one of us living in it, but I felt that had the potential to be very messy if new partners and possibly even babies came on the scene.

I think you are doing the right thing and should be able to forge a terrific co-parent relationship in the future.
I get along well with my DS' dad but if we tried to have a couple-relationship we would murder each other. ONe of the things I was struck by in your post is the number of things you don't do because he wouldn't like them: DS' dad is similar in that he thinks about half my hobbies and interests are ridiculous - but it's not a problem for us as we are NOt A COuple so he looks after DS while I go and do stuff etc.

If DC have two parents who love them and are involved in their lives and at least civil to one another, it doesn't do them any harm. Much more harm would be done by living in a house with two parents who hate each other and are always rowing.

Thank you, solidgold. I have been lurking on the lone parents topic - it's very cheering to see lots of women doing their own thing and enjoying it. I hope that I will be like this.

DB, my parents divorced when I was a kid and although if was difficult for a time, I don't think I have suffered or missed out in any way at all. I have two wonderful step parents in addition to my wonderful parents, who are so amicable with each other that the four of them sometimes go on holiday together!

Your DD is loved by both of her parents and that is what counts. She's lucky, and so are you to have such a caring and sensible DP/XP.

Ahh, Morris Zapp, that is lovely about your step/parents! You are right, I am dead lucky to have a X/DP who is sensible and who I can trust 100% with DD.

Dustbuster, your situation sounds very similar to mine, except our son is only 5 months and we are going to Relate before deciding what to do. I have the same problems in the sense of having a strongly opinionated partner who doubts he can change, and I often feel disapproved of when he is around.
I too wonder if splitting up would be selfish towards our son, or maybe it's kinder in the long run. How do kids cope with that kind of thing later on - too young to remember, but it must affect them still? However, like you I think the alternative would have an even worse effect.

I'll watch this thread with interest, because if Relate doesn't help us to resolve our differences (and hell, DP and I are different) we may be going down the same road as you.
It is good to hear stories of agreeable, friendly separations because a lot of the tales on MN about breakups and exes are so frightening or sad.

Hi cheerfulvicky. Sorry to hear you are going through this too.

I suppose at least our DPs are being honest about their unwillingness to change - I know people in RL who are working at sticky relationships, and so often people say they will change and then carry on as before. (Because it is bloody hard to change.) Which leads to more resentment etc etc.

I honestly don't know what is best for the DCs. My partner grew up with parents who didn't get on and finally had an extremely acrimonious divorce, and he feels strongly that it is much better to split and stay friendly. And I feel that I don't want DD growing up with parents who are getting at each other/depressed/angry.

How are you getting on with Relate? I have suggested that we go several times, but he thinks it is a waste of time. (Which it blatantly isn't, as I know there are lots of people on here who have found it very helpful.)

Good luck! There is lots of good advice on this thread, both from people who made the break and those who made their marriages work.

Hi My DP hasn't said he will not change, more like he's not sure he can. I have my doubts too as I know even if he was totally committed to making things work, it would be difficult for him. And I'm not sure he is completely committed.

Well, I've always thought personally it's better for kids to grow up in a reasonably harmonious household, no matter how many parents there are, to one in which there is tension and sadness and anger. But I have a hard time working out what is normal family conflict, and what is over the line, i.e unfair to put a child through. I have a feeling if there is a line, my situation is just on the border between acceptable and unacceptable. It's hard to know what to do.

Relate has been amazing, we've only been twice, but it's already proved illuminating. I'm not so sure if my DP is finding it as useful, but I suppose time will tell. Last nights session was, according to him, 'uninspiring'. The counsellor asked us at the end to each think individually about how we could make the relationship better. She was met with blank faces, and said as much. We explained that I felt as though I'd tried everything and had very little energy left, and he just couldn't be arsed because he thought the whole thing was doomed anyway. So she asked us to come back separately for a few sessions
It is helping though, and I'm so glad we went. It's good to talk about things with people, get different perspectives. I suppose that's why MN is so lovely!

Good luck with your own situation. You both sound really chilled and respectful about the whole thing, which is brilliant.

Oh yes, I know exactly what you mean about the borderline between acceptable and unacceptable. A lot of people I know seem to have similar issues to us, but I have a gut feeling that our differences are greater than theirs. So it's not just about tiredness, squabbling over chores, post-baby sexual slump, but about genuinely irreconcilable differences.

Glad to hear you're finding Relate so useful. I can imagine if a counsellor asked us the same question she'd get a very similar reaction!

I really, honestly think that an amicable co-parent relationship is much better than two people trying to maintain a couple-relationship that doesn't suit them and therefore constantly squabbling and sniping and picking at each other.
COuplehood simply doesn't suit everyone.
And when I read the threads about women (and it's almost always women) putting up with all manner of shit just to 'keep the relationship together' it drives me nuts. It's so much better to be single than be treated like a domestic appliance, leeched off for money, constantly belittled - and that's without getting into the stories of the horribly abusive men out there...

Is it ok if I put a few thoughts in?
I would hesitate to advise anyone as individuals on whether to split up or keep trying (even if I knew you lovely people better, which I'm afraid I don't, I sense other threads I have not seen) but I wanted to air this:

in my sadder, more cynical moments it seems to me that we are still (unconsciously on all parts and with the best of intentions) labouring under old relationship conditions which are essentially a racket in men's favour. I know so many brilliant women who were free and confident and nobody's skivvy in their early adulthood, who now scrub and bottlewash and, worse, endlessly endlessly keep the peace while they KNOW better about something but the household CAN'T STAND ANOTHER ARGUMENT and the man is so used to creating impossible conditions for disagreement, so they don't disagree (also they are knackered) and it is called "picking their battles" - ie the man does what he wants nearly all the time unless it is endangering the child.
anyway this rubs off on girls and they replicate their mothers' behaviour. this is bigger than finding your own personal freedom - this is about creating genuine change in the conditions under which women are prepared to live in partnerships. Men of our generation don't know much about how to be better than their dads - no matter how hard they try, it is easier for them not to change. men of the next generation need to be taught that women can be kind, loving, generous partners and parents but they don't just put up with any old crap to maintain a relationship.
We used to have to because we had no other access to money. now that has changed we have to change ourselves and what we will accept. I believe this very strongly when I look at how little girls and boys absorb their parents' behaviour.
sorry if too theoretical and off the point.
solidgold thanks for looking in on me last night!

Vezzie: damn right. Men will continue to take advantage as long as women let them, but the more women refuse to put up with bullshit and accept that it is far better to live alone than with a man who is just one big chore, then there is a chance for things to improve.
You know, the main reason there is all this endless propaganda about heteromonogamy being the purpose of life and the only thing that makes a woman feel 'fulfilled' is one big con: 'romance' is the bait to make women service men. This isn;t to say that people can't have romantic relationships and enjoy them, more that they are simply not that big a deal for quite a lot of people and it's so much better to be single than to be taken advantage of.

Spot on vezzie and solidgold. This is something I have really struggled with - living with a partner who is completely signed up to feminist principles in theory, but in practice is totally unwilling to do certain things (presumably because he unconsciously feels they are beneath him). One of the reasons I am relatively relaxed about us separating is because I take responsibility for almost everything as it is. So living alone holds no fears.

Almost every relationship I see in RL is completely unequal, which makes it easy to convince yourself that this is just something you have to put up with. But as you say, it's far better to go it alone.