Sex-pest toddler DH

[marriedtoatoddler]

DH has always wanted sex more often than I do. (Left to myself, I would want it once or twice a week, so we?re not talking famine here.) But I always have to do it for him, one way or another, whether I feel like it or not. If I won?t, I get the two-hour monologue listing my shortcomings and why my past behaviour means I ?owe? him sex now.

He won?t masturbate, and won?t explain why. I work away from home for 1-2 weeks at a time, 3-4 times a year (another major bone of contention) and he assures me he stays celibate during these times. He won?t go to therapy, since our (brief) couples therapy and my own (much longer) have ?ruined everything we used to have?. The only solution he suggests is to ?go and find someone else? to top up with. I have said clearly that I will divorce him if he does this.

He is generally clingy and dependent and wants to know where I am at all times and do everything I do. He can?t wait to retire (he is in his 50s) so that we can do everything together all the time. Ladies, I have got to get something sorted before then!! Leaving is definitely an option, but things actually have got so much better now that I stand up for myself more (I couldn?t take a bath or a walk on my own for years, for instance, and I can delay sex now, for 24 hours or so) that I?m not ready to give up just yet.

What I want to know from you wise MNers is the following:

What do your DHs do if they want sex and you don?t? I actually don?t know what behaviour is acceptable.

How can I act more like an adult myself? I find it difficult to trust and get close to people anyway, and tend to withdraw and reject, which I can see just makes him more frantic to get a reaction. I read the recent passive-aggressive threads on MN and thought ?ouch, that?s me?. And I don?t want no sex life at all. But what is the line between setting firm boundaries and being a controlling cow?

How should I react to the tantrums (useful advice on a recent thread, I know, but any more ideas)? For instance, DH says he will deliberately sabotage any attempt to get away on holiday in time, with a long-arranged visit to a friend of mine on the way, unless I have sex with him first. I know it?s outrageous, I know I shouldn?t put up with it, but what do I DO?

Long, sorry.

Toddler is an apt description. Blimey.

Personally I wouldn't put up with any of it. If my DH deliberately tried to sabotage leaving for a holiday because he wanted sex first then I would leave without him for the holiday - having put clear plans in place to enable me to do so.

If my DH wants sex and I don't, then he goes without - the world doesn't stop turning and he copes. He's an adult.

Your DH sounds very very controlling; I don't know about the passive aggressive thing, it just sounds like he wants to control you all the time.
You say you're not ready to give up yet (sorry, but I would have given up the very first time I couldn't have a bath on my own), which is admirable - all I can suggest is more of the same: don't stand for any shit whatsoever, claw back some of the power in your relationship and be firm. It will be exhausting, but is your only chance of a happy existence.

being able to choose when you have sex is not being controlling - it is your right.
Or course you're not going to want to sleep with him when he spends hours listing your faults controlling your life and ruining your trips to your friends when you refuse.

It is absolutely awful behaviour.

I would consider the pros and cons of staying in this marriage and also be clear on what kind of behaviour you would find acceptable.

What Hassled said. This is not normal. His clingyness sounds like a mental health problem. If you love him enough, you could stay with him on condition he gets treated. But he does need to understand that this is not how most men behave, that there is something both wrong and unusual here. It's not just the sex thing, it's the inability to cope on his own and his need to control you. He should see a doctor.

He sounds disturbed, quite frankly.

has he ever explained his behaviour to you? or tried?

If my Dh wants sex and I don't we have a cuddle. That's it. He respects my decision and he doesn't have a tantrum or threaten to go elsewhere.

Cancel the holiday or go without him.

Consult a solicitor.

He might be 50 but he is acting like a 2 year old.

If my DH wants sex and I don't he either sorts himself out or leaves it. He would never threaten to go elsewhere and if he did I would tell him go and never come back.

It sounds like he has quite a few problems going on.

Years ago when I worked with young people, a girl asked me "please miss, do you like sex?"
I replied that if you are in a position where you have to question yourself, then you shouldn't be doing it. This caused some discussion which I think is important for young women, but when the same debate comes up for adults the debate is heartbreaking.
How will we ever teach young women to take control of their sexuality if we allow men to think of us as service workers for their needs.

His behaviour is not acceptable. I am amazed you actually want sex twice a week with a man who puts this much pressure on you: it would put a lot of women right off the idea.
I agree with the posters who say: don't give in to the attempts to control you ie make plans to leave for the holiday without him if he starts acting up and trying to delay you.
Oh, and if he tries to stop you leaving by force unless you let him have sex on your body then you know you will have to end the relationship, don't you, because that will have crossed the line completely. That will be, er, rape.

this is total blackmail
the whole way he behaves
maybe you are standing up for yourself now but is it getting better

Does he actually have any positive points? The idea of being with him ALL THE TIME after retirement sounds like some sort of punishment from hell, like having some sort of irritating gollum velcroed to you. And if you are constantly about he will want even more sex then I bet. Can I ask why you are still with him?

Good Lord! Well, that's not good.

But he is getting away with this behaviour, in part, because he is being allowed to. That?s not a criticism, just an observation.

I?m very much like you ? I tend towards to the rejection method and it does make people like your OH absolutely frantic. I don?t like setting boundaries particularly and then get really hacked off when people don?t respect my own personal limits in the way that I would respect theirs. Your OH has crossed the line (by a lot), but the principle is the same. What do you have to do you? Well, you have to tell him. And mean it. He can whine and threaten and sulk until the cows come home, but no means no. If he wants to sabotage his holiday ? let him. Walk out the door and don?t look back.

What happens when you say no? Do you mean it, or does he know that if he bothers and harasses you sufficiently you will give in? Why do you give in ? is the alternative too stressful?

You have to change your behaviour to effect change in him. But, it?s going to be a long haul. He sounds like he has had it his way far too long. Does he have other redeeming qualities that make this worthwhile? If not, I?d question why you?ve put up with it so long and maybe counselling will help give you some answers.

This is classic controlling stuff that is (bordering on) abuse, and it is only going to get worse and not better unless he gets help. I am so sorry that you are in this situation but he is not going to change (he is in so much denial, he blames it all on you every time). You are going to need to take responsibility for your own happiness and that may be without someone who treats you badly and is unwilling to change. i agree with others, get some conselling, and consider talking the national domestic violence helpline (abuse is verbal before it is physical/sexual, but is always control based) to get some impartial reassurance that its not you that is in the wrong, and for some decent advice. sending courage

sorry, sounds horrible to me. what's there to like?

He brings up your shortcomings? what an arse!

What's good about him exactly?

My DH would have sex twice a day if I was up for it. He tends to view every moment that DS is asleep as an opportunity for a shag...whereas I'm thinking right, time for a bath, wash the bottles, something to eat...lol. I'd say we do it 2-3 times a week, which I'm happy with. When he tries it on I sometimes have to be firm, but always in a kind way. He takes it as a game, and it's quite funny. Sometimes I give in (but only because I want to) If I say 'seriously, it's not happening' he shrugs and moves on. Your DH's behaviour is awful. Do you enjoy it when he has hassled you into it, or do you just lie there and wait til he finishes? There's a fine line between what he is doing and rape. I know you won't think of it that way and it is pretty extreme, but what he is doing is taking away your freedom to choose when you have sex, and making it impossibe for you to say no. You are not really consenting with your own free will, but because you don't want the consequences of not consenting.

If I were you I would think long and hard about what good reasons there are to stay in that relationship. If I had a DH like yours I'd run for the hills. His behaviour is far from normal.

I think you may be glossing over other elements of controlling behaviour in your relationship marriedtoatoddler. Reading between the lines, to me it seems obvious that you are in a highly abusive relationship, regardless of whether any physical punches have been thrown.

An interesting point about passive-aggressive behaviour. I have never considered myself to be a P-A person, but as I was considering leaving my absusive x and striving to learn more about abusive relationships so I could understand what happened to me, I realised that I was showing quite a few p-a behaviours. As I read more and learned more, I realised that developing a p-a response is very typical among the victims in abusive relationships. The reason for this is because you have learned that dealing with disagreements directly will explode in your face. Therefore, you react covertly. It is a last-ditch effort to maintain some sort of control over yourself in the relationship. Unfortunately, unless you realise what is happening and why, this has two very negative consequences. The first is that an abuser can use this behaviour to demonstrate that you are the one being unreasonable. The second, if you ever get as far as leaving, is that this learned behaviour can hang around for some time after you leave and has the potential to damage any future relationships you have, whether they be friendships or romantic relationships. The good news is that p-a behaviour learned as the result of an abusive relationship (as opposed to being learned in childhood as the result of a dysfunctional family) can be overcome with some self-awareness and a determination to change. It took me about 18 months after leaving to really get rid of this streak in myself. This followed a 6-year abusive relationship.

Personally, I would strongly advise you to leave this relationship (based on what you've said here and taking it at face value). However, it's your life and your choice. If you wish to stay, the best thing you can do is to start educating yourself about abusive relationships in particular and passive-aggressive behaviour in general. This will hopefully help you to recognise when your husband is behaving badly to you and how your own responses are affected by his abuse. If you can see that, you stand a much better chance of taking the action that is right for you, rather than the action that is right for him and what he sees as the ideal relationship. Good luck.

Well said OptimistS. It is very liberating to use the fredom gained from an abusive relationship to understand yourself and discard the survival mechanisms you had to adopt.

Another spot on post from OptimistS.

OP - You say things have got much better since you started to assert yourself more - goodness, how bad was it before then! If you asserting yourself has improved things then keep doing it. Be consistent, dont give in to blackmail, walk away from his "tantrums".

Tbh, it sounds exausting tho' and only you can answer if you are willing to live in this battle of wills relationship and work very hard at constraining the behaviour of a man who should not even think about treating the woman he says he loves in this way. He doesnt sound worth it to me.

( I hope he isnt in a position to retire for many a year, because it sounds like he is planning to be your personal gaoler then.)

You don't 'owe' him anything, never mind sex! Can't believe someone would act like that, where's the love, romance and seduction?

To say that he is childish is actually putting it very mildly IMO. He is controlling, conniving and willing to put you down to get his own selfishness satisfied. Maybe when you back down to him, you are enabling him and reinforcing his behaviour by showing him that when he belittles you and threatens you, he gets what he wants and so the behaviour continues. I am NOT saying it is your fault AT ALL, in fact the absolute opposite - he knows how to play you, he knows your weaknesses and is successful in using them to his advantage.

I'd put my foot down right now, take away his power, do not comply, reverse the psychology. You can't change him but you can change yourself and if he realises you are serious, that may well give him a jolt or give you the strength to walk away from him.

As for the holiday, warm him in advance that if he starts any of his carry on, he can stay at home and indeed 'go find someone else', and if he makes that choice, it lets you know exactly where you stand.

Another thing, he is fine to threaten you about finding someone else for sex....but what about you....might you not find someone who doesn't make sexual demands, who doesn't suffocate you, who respects you and does not emotionally blackmail you? After all, your needs are as important as his, he needs to realise this pronto!

He is not the only one who can go find someone else.

Many, many thanks for your advice and the strength and good wishes you have sent me. The holiday incident did actually happen (even he isn't planning for next summer yet!). I am ashamed to say I gave in then, but I felt so sh*t afterwards it was another bump-start along the road to changing things. And they are getting better (from a pretty low base, I agree...). That's why I want advice about reasonable boundaries so I have some idea where to stop.

Why am I still here? The same reasons everyone else gives - it's not bad all the time, DCs (teenagers) to consider, half a lifetime's investment of time, money and emotion, the life I would have to jettison along with the man. But I now know (thank you, psychotherapy!) that, if or when enough is enough, I can do it. Thank you all again for the strength you have given me.

Thank you all again